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On December 08 2010 23:15 MrCon wrote:
Incontrol said a very true thing in the last SotG, wanted to make a topic about this but..no.
He said "Protoss players don't chronoboost"
And he's right. Oh sure, they chronoboost some probes at the start, or some stuff for their build (warpagte, +1 ground atk...)
But after a while, and it is true for the GSL protosses, for Huk, or for any protoss I saw vod or replays, they'll just stop using chrono and all their nexus will be at max energy. They'll still chrno thermal lance and storm/amulet, nothing else. Very often in mid game I see protosses get +2 atk or +1 armor and not chrono it with 3 or 4 nexus at full energy.
I know a lot of protoss players will jump of me saying that they are an exception, but just watch any famous protosses, you'll see this is true : after a while, they just stop chronoboosting anything.
I think the don't force themselves to remember to CB because they don't really need it.
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Nice, when I posted my chronoboost post I feared people thinking I'm just trolling and flame me, but I have some "normal" answers, thank you 
I don't play protoss, but I really think not using those chrono is really giving up some edge, even if you forget and have a lot, just take 5 seconds to chrono all your gates just after a warping round or something like that, that should make a difference (but it's all theory I admit it)
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On December 09 2010 00:28 ParasitJonte wrote:
I keep all my nexi on hotkeys 6-0 and chronoboost whenever I can remember it. Especially in late game I think protoss needs to chronoboost more. From upgrades to gateways, robbos etc.
The difference it makes really adds up.
I put all my CCs on one hotkey, wouldn't be more easy to have all your nexi on only one, so you can empty all your energy with just one hotkey press ?
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I will rewatch the Foxer vs MC game 4 VOD and try to watch his nexi energy, he seems to always have "a lot of stuff", I wonder if that could be one of the differences between him and other protosses.
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On December 08 2010 23:34 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
yeah, because protoss is the most mechanically demanding race
plus protoss cant reinforce while micro their army at the same time. i wonder that ive never heard anyone else mention this  playing protoss is not thankful ;( only if you have creep skill is needed i guess.
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The one Protoss who I always noted Chronoboosting throughout games was Tester, particularly his Forge or Forges
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On December 09 2010 00:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 23:15 MrCon wrote:
Incontrol said a very true thing in the last SotG, wanted to make a topic about this but..no.
He said "Protoss players don't chronoboost"
And he's right. Oh sure, they chronoboost some probes at the start, or some stuff for their build (warpagte, +1 ground atk...)
But after a while, and it is true for the GSL protosses, for Huk, or for any protoss I saw vod or replays, they'll just stop using chrono and all their nexus will be at max energy. They'll still chrno thermal lance and storm/amulet, nothing else. Very often in mid game I see protosses get +2 atk or +1 armor and not chrono it with 3 or 4 nexus at full energy.
I know a lot of protoss players will jump of me saying that they are an exception, but just watch any famous protosses, you'll see this is true : after a while, they just stop chronoboosting anything. I think the don't force themselves to remember to CB because they don't really need it.
That is just bad logic.
Of course they "need" it, for the simple reason that Protoss players do not win every single game. That would be the only instance where Protoss players did not "need" to improve. But obviously, that is not the case. There has even been a period now where Protoss has not performed too well in tournaments (just a generalization, of course there has been exceptions).
The players that manage to keep up consistently with small advantages (like Chrono Boosting throughout the game), are in the long run the players who will statistically dominate.
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On December 09 2010 00:46 theqat wrote:
The one Protoss who I always noted Chronoboosting throughout games was Tester, particularly his Forge or Forges
what else you want to chronoboost? the amount of gateways you need in late game is too much to chronoboost constantly. you wont have the money to support as far as i experienced. and when you have already reached your tech you only can boost probes or upgrades. ever seen a protoss maxing out all his upgrades?
i dont think there is magic to the chronoboost that has not discovered yet. if you think different i am more than pleased to know what your thoughts are on this since i want to improve =D
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On December 09 2010 00:47 Dystisis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 00:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 08 2010 23:15 MrCon wrote:
Incontrol said a very true thing in the last SotG, wanted to make a topic about this but..no.
He said "Protoss players don't chronoboost"
And he's right. Oh sure, they chronoboost some probes at the start, or some stuff for their build (warpagte, +1 ground atk...)
But after a while, and it is true for the GSL protosses, for Huk, or for any protoss I saw vod or replays, they'll just stop using chrono and all their nexus will be at max energy. They'll still chrno thermal lance and storm/amulet, nothing else. Very often in mid game I see protosses get +2 atk or +1 armor and not chrono it with 3 or 4 nexus at full energy.
I know a lot of protoss players will jump of me saying that they are an exception, but just watch any famous protosses, you'll see this is true : after a while, they just stop chronoboosting anything. I think the don't force themselves to remember to CB because they don't really need it. That is just bad logic. Of course they "need" it, for the simple reason that Protoss players do not win every single game. That would be the only instance where Protoss players did not "need" to improve. But obviously, that is not the case. There has even been a period now where Protoss has not performed too well in tournaments (just a generalization, of course there has been exceptions). The players that manage to keep up consistently with small advantages (like Chrono Boosting throughout the game), are in the long run the players who will statistically dominate.
Exactly. I mean, chrono is like mule or inject. But when a terran forgets muling, a zerg injecting, they're bad players. When a protoss does it, it's normal.
If you watch vods and commenated games, the caster will always notice a terran who let is energy rise for no reason, but never if a protoss does it.
That's why I want to talk about this, I mean, a protoss player who stays under 30 energy all the time in a long game will have a big edge over one who doesn't. Tyller said basicaly that it's too hard, even for pros, to keep up with chrono, that's an explanation but I find it hard to beleive, even more for Tyller that has high APM, good mechanics...
My first guess is they're just used to play their mid-late game without using it, and that habit is hard to lose. (just a guess)
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On December 09 2010 00:50 leecH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 00:46 theqat wrote:
The one Protoss who I always noted Chronoboosting throughout games was Tester, particularly his Forge or Forges what else you want to chronoboost? the amount of gateways you need in late game is too much to chronoboost constantly. you wont have the money to support as far as i experienced. and when you have already reached your tech you only can boost probes or upgrades. ever seen a protoss maxing out all his upgrades? i dont think there is magic to the chronoboost that has not discovered yet. if you think different i am more than pleased to know what your thoughts are on this since i want to improve =D
That's a good argument. You can always chrono probes I guess ?
I know there is no magic formula that I just discovered that wil lmake all protosses better player just like that, but still this intrigue me a lot.
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When I usually cb tons is when you lose multiple colossi or immortals in mid to late game, having nexi keyed to one hot key really helps with cb double robo or stargates. Its just natural honestly for high level play to cb upgrades, in my opinion.
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On December 09 2010 00:50 leecH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 00:46 theqat wrote:
The one Protoss who I always noted Chronoboosting throughout games was Tester, particularly his Forge or Forges what else you want to chronoboost? the amount of gateways you need in late game is too much to chronoboost constantly. you wont have the money to support as far as i experienced. and when you have already reached your tech you only can boost probes or upgrades. ever seen a protoss maxing out all his upgrades? i dont think there is magic to the chronoboost that has not discovered yet. if you think different i am more than pleased to know what your thoughts are on this since i want to improve =D
That's not how stuff works.
If you consistently CB your Gateways, you will need less gateways (probably around 1 less Gateway per 5 Gateways if you CB them with two Nexuses -- admittedly I am just pulling numbers out of my ass here but I'd say it's around there somewhere), to produce the same units in the same time for the same cost. However, you'll have money spared from not building the additional Gateway.
The more Nexuses you have and use the CB of, the less Gateways will you need to produce X amount of units for same cost because you can produce out of the existing Gateways faster.
So in the late game, with consistent CB, you will realistically have spared around enough money to build an additional Nexus, all the while having the same sized army as you would otherwise, etc.
A Nexus out of thin air, not bad.
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On December 08 2010 23:41 Ayabara wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 23:34 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On December 08 2010 23:15 MrCon wrote:
Incontrol said a very true thing in the last SotG, wanted to make a topic about this but..no.
He said "Protoss players don't chronoboost"
And he's right. Oh sure, they chronoboost some probes at the start, or some stuff for their build (warpagte, +1 ground atk...)
But after a while, and it is true for the GSL protosses, for Huk, or for any protoss I saw vod or replays, they'll just stop using chrono and all their nexus will be at max energy. They'll still chrno thermal lance and storm/amulet, nothing else. Very often in mid game I see protosses get +2 atk or +1 armor and not chrono it with 3 or 4 nexus at full energy.
I know a lot of protoss players will jump of me saying that they are an exception, but just watch any famous protosses, you'll see this is true : after a while, they just stop chronoboosting anything. yeah, because protoss is the most mechanically demanding race, we're still getting comfortable with sc2 interface and havent been able to chronoboost effectively throughout the game yet I am in no position to debate this statement, and will make no attempt to, nor presume that my personal opinion can be held to nearly the same standard as yours on this subject, but... something tells me that this won't go over too well.
Well after all the QQ over the 1.2 change we now know 75% of zerg APM comes from holding down R. :D
I'd like PainUser to come back on sometime and I assume Tyler will be on next week to tell us why Protoss is the most mechanically demanding.
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How is chronoing to hard?????!!! It's not harder for me then larva injecting. When I play protoss and I have like 3 nexii I just waste it on anything really I mean it stacks so it's easier for me then larva injecting.
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How come you guys aren't uploading them on youtube anymore =/
Made my trip to school much better...
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On December 09 2010 00:38 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 00:28 ParasitJonte wrote:
I keep all my nexi on hotkeys 6-0 and chronoboost whenever I can remember it. Especially in late game I think protoss needs to chronoboost more. From upgrades to gateways, robbos etc.
The difference it makes really adds up. I put all my CCs on one hotkey, wouldn't be more easy to have all your nexi on only one, so you can empty all your energy with just one hotkey press ?
I don't know how pros manage this in SC2, but I would think that would make mineral line crisis management a bit less snappy and intuitive. I remember in BW pros used F2-F4 to supplement their ability to snap across the battlefield and save their workers or manage other disparate tasks.
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On December 09 2010 01:27 Endorsed wrote:
How is chronoing to hard?????!!! It's not harder for me then larva injecting. When I play protoss and I have like 3 nexii I just waste it on anything really I mean it stacks so it's easier for me then larva injecting.
You must not play much protoss then. I wish chronoboost stacked. Imagine getting a bunch of Nexus and dropping all the chronoboost on one gateway. Zealots would build almost instantly for the next 20 seconds!
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Chronoboost is irrelevant late game for the simple reason of you have more production buildings than you can afford to use. What's the point of chronoboosting a zealot out when all it means is that that one Warp Gate will be out of synch with the other three? It's alright if you still have some upgrades out, but better to save up chronoboosts for when you're rebuilding your army to 200 than brainlessly use it every single time you can on anything.
Midgame you'll need the extra buildings for tech switch. Late game, you just use whatever ones to make the unit mix you want.
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On December 09 2010 01:27 Endorsed wrote:
How is chronoing to hard?????!!! It's not harder for me then larva injecting. When I play protoss and I have like 3 nexii I just waste it on anything really I mean it stacks so it's easier for me then larva injecting.
I have trouble keeping up with my larva injecting and creep spread in the mid-late game. But then again, I stink at this game.
It's surprising to hear that pro's are having trouble chronoboosting. It's there something unique to Toss that makes it harder than larva injecting/creep spread?
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On December 09 2010 01:34 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2010 01:27 Endorsed wrote:
How is chronoing to hard?????!!! It's not harder for me then larva injecting. When I play protoss and I have like 3 nexii I just waste it on anything really I mean it stacks so it's easier for me then larva injecting.
I have trouble keeping up with my larva injecting and creep spread in the mid-late game. But then again, I stink at this game. It's surprising to hear that pro's are having trouble chronoboosting. It's there something unique to Toss that makes it harder than larva injecting/creep spread?
I think (I think) that is because chronoboost involve decision, where mule and creep/inject does not. That why it's harder. But I guess gate/nexus could be good "chronoboost sinks"
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EPT
