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On December 08 2010 16:08 Shakes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 15:55 Defacer wrote:On December 08 2010 15:21 SlapMySalami wrote:
I don't think incontrol felt THAT ganged up on by artosis and idra but he was kinda hurt that a large enough part of the chat was STFUing him and being assholes and such I think there's this weird phenomenon on the internet, where people hear Artosis and InControl call each other idiots, and think that gives them permission to talk smack and call InControl or JP or whoever -- basically people they don't know -- whatever they want. Um, I'm sure everyone on SOTG are nice guys and fine hosts, but they are not our buds. If a random guy off the street came up to me and said "HEY FUCKER!" I would probably give them the worst stink-eye ever. I don't think it's Artosis and InControl calling each other idiots that does it. You look at real sports, the athletes always say what great fans they have, the most knowledgeable fans in the world, blah blah jerk the people who support them off a bit. The e-sports guys go on the cast and say that their fans don't know what the hell they're talking about, they try to avoid reading anything they say, and so on. Now some people are going to appreciate their honesty, but others are going to react to it as "well if you don't care what I have to say you wont care when I call you the biggest douchebag in the world!"
you are compareing 2 totally different things here.
evryone whos interviewed after a game/win always thank the fans,community,sponsors etc.
a podcast and esp sotg is totally different and in no way related.
thats exactly the problem. people are so serious and butthurt over sotg treating it as some official representation of the players/sc2 community. its not. its some(high profile in the community)guys talking about the game for our entertainment. nothing else.
and if people cant enjoy that without reading all kinds of bullshit into it and taking evrything super serious then those people shouldnt listen to it. all those idiot trolls are the reason why youll never see something like sotg(or any honest talk) in official sports. cause some newspaper will blow some casual talk out of proportions to create drama. here we dont have newspapers doing that but the butthurt "im special! momma told me!" guys ranting flaming and complaining.
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On December 08 2010 16:08 Shakes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 15:55 Defacer wrote:On December 08 2010 15:21 SlapMySalami wrote:
I don't think incontrol felt THAT ganged up on by artosis and idra but he was kinda hurt that a large enough part of the chat was STFUing him and being assholes and such I think there's this weird phenomenon on the internet, where people hear Artosis and InControl call each other idiots, and think that gives them permission to talk smack and call InControl or JP or whoever -- basically people they don't know -- whatever they want. Um, I'm sure everyone on SOTG are nice guys and fine hosts, but they are not our buds. If a random guy off the street came up to me and said "HEY FUCKER!" I would probably give them the worst stink-eye ever. I don't think it's Artosis and InControl calling each other idiots that does it. You look at real sports, the athletes always say what great fans they have, the most knowledgeable fans in the world, blah blah jerk the people who support them off a bit. The e-sports guys go on the cast and say that their fans don't know what the hell they're talking about, they try to avoid reading anything they say, and so on. Now some people are going to appreciate their honesty, but others are going to react to it as "well if you don't care what I have to say you wont care when I call you the biggest douchebag in the world!"
Haha, you might have a point there.
Nonetheless, I think what makes SC2 (and Team Liquid) special is that the players and host do interact with the fans, even if that means they occasionally resent us and call us retards.
I had a friend that saw Vince Carter at an airport once. He waved and said, "Hey Vince, great game last night!" and Vince just stared right past him, pretending not to hear him.
It would be a lot easier for InControl or Nony or IdrA not to go near these boards at all. The more successful you are, the more people feel like like their entitled to something or want something from you.
I'd rather be banned from Team Liquid or called a retard on occasion than see these guys distance themselves from their fans.
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JP: It would be cool if you tried to split the air time between the participants a little bit better.
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On December 08 2010 16:09 HollowLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 14:19 blitzkrieger wrote:On December 08 2010 13:58 Fa1nT wrote:On December 08 2010 13:55 Zzoram wrote:
PainUser was nice because he knew details about the units in the game like HP/dmg/types. DT has more damage than flying ranged DT (banshees) Therefor DT are the superior harass unit. I'm assuming this is sarcasm. Banshees are infinitely better than DTs since they 1) Can be part of an army 2) Force detection regardless of cloak 3) Force one tech (robo) from Protoss 4) Fly 5) Protoss is weak to air 6) Cheaper 7) Tech is easily accessible 8) Tech is faster 9) There is less of a gamble/all-in 10) Kill workers faster than DTs 11) Ranged 12) Decelerate slowly so they can scoot shoot 13) Workers cant run from them nearly as easily. 14) Detection doesn't render them useless Theres probably more... Hate to burst your bubble but number 10 is wrong, DTs actually kill workers faster =/
oh shit, call the press....ONE of the 16,000 reasons why banshees are superior to DTs was actually NOT true.
15,999 reasons banshee is better + 1 wrong reason = DT win. see? it's math.
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This episode showed (at least for me) one important fact - sometimes people with a lot of actual experience aren't used to theorycrafting. This episode lacked the thought process of people like PainUser.
EDIT: Regarding PainUser's preference of DTs does not make much sense to me, but it doesn't mean I don't like everything he says. In this situation he would probably point out that phoenix is already strong, so it would be irrational to buff it up. //EDIT
Just by looking at phoenix you can easily tell that it's the absolute counter to mutalisk. If anything it should be nerfed to range 3, so that you can't kite mutalisks. This situation reminds me of the marine discussion. Most of the balance issues are quite simple, there is an obvious solution, the problem is that Blizzard has to make the right move...
EDIT:I have to admit that I don't have much faith in Blizzard, if they even considered some of the temporary PTR changes.. (Phoenix, fungal growth, bunker ...) //EDIT
In relation to that I don’t think that having high SC2 ranking makes your statement arbitrary more valuable. I've always believed a true/false statement is true/false, no matter the source. If our president says that global warming is a hoax, the statement isn't closer to the truth just because he is a president...
That's why I wouldn't like to see post being valued according to your ladder rank, as it's mainly a matter of mechanical practice (similarly to basic math, there are a few rules you need to know, but most of you performance comes from practice and almost unconscious execution of the tasks).
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On December 08 2010 19:20 WarSong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 16:09 HollowLord wrote:On December 08 2010 14:19 blitzkrieger wrote:On December 08 2010 13:58 Fa1nT wrote:On December 08 2010 13:55 Zzoram wrote:
PainUser was nice because he knew details about the units in the game like HP/dmg/types. DT has more damage than flying ranged DT (banshees) Therefor DT are the superior harass unit. I'm assuming this is sarcasm. Banshees are infinitely better than DTs since they 1) Can be part of an army 2) Force detection regardless of cloak 3) Force one tech (robo) from Protoss 4) Fly 5) Protoss is weak to air 6) Cheaper 7) Tech is easily accessible 8) Tech is faster 9) There is less of a gamble/all-in 10) Kill workers faster than DTs 11) Ranged 12) Decelerate slowly so they can scoot shoot 13) Workers cant run from them nearly as easily. 14) Detection doesn't render them useless Theres probably more... Hate to burst your bubble but number 10 is wrong, DTs actually kill workers faster =/ oh shit, call the press....ONE of the 16,000 reasons why banshees are superior to DTs was actually NOT true. 15,999 reasons banshee is better + 1 wrong reason = DT win. see? it's math.
dts are always invisible. 2 reasons.
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On December 08 2010 21:16 maliceee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 19:20 WarSong wrote:On December 08 2010 16:09 HollowLord wrote:On December 08 2010 14:19 blitzkrieger wrote:On December 08 2010 13:58 Fa1nT wrote:On December 08 2010 13:55 Zzoram wrote:
PainUser was nice because he knew details about the units in the game like HP/dmg/types. DT has more damage than flying ranged DT (banshees) Therefor DT are the superior harass unit. I'm assuming this is sarcasm. Banshees are infinitely better than DTs since they 1) Can be part of an army 2) Force detection regardless of cloak 3) Force one tech (robo) from Protoss 4) Fly 5) Protoss is weak to air 6) Cheaper 7) Tech is easily accessible 8) Tech is faster 9) There is less of a gamble/all-in 10) Kill workers faster than DTs 11) Ranged 12) Decelerate slowly so they can scoot shoot 13) Workers cant run from them nearly as easily. 14) Detection doesn't render them useless Theres probably more... Hate to burst your bubble but number 10 is wrong, DTs actually kill workers faster =/ oh shit, call the press....ONE of the 16,000 reasons why banshees are superior to DTs was actually NOT true. 15,999 reasons banshee is better + 1 wrong reason = DT win. see? it's math. dts are always invisible. 2 reasons.
but...i...
i don't understand...that's DOUBLE 100% in favor of DTs...
call nasa, the universe is broken 
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8748 Posts
On December 08 2010 15:21 SlapMySalami wrote:
incontrol did have a good point that both idra and artosis could not come up with 1 replay of them having to use infestors
i dont see how artosis not using autosave is relevant to the discussion =[
also, if everyone knows that infestors own mass air, then no intelligent player ever goes mass air in a situation where an infestor can come out and own it, so you never get to do it. and then there are no replays of it.
colossus own a marine/ghost composition but i have 0 reps of it, etc...
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Man, I finally just got around to listening to the latest SotG. I don't get why so many people are saying that Geoff was sounding "nasty" or pissed off. I thought the whole tone of the cast was actually pretty good? Sounds to me like people kicking up a fuss over nothing.
Anyway, keep up the great work guys! SotG is like a staple part of my week I always look forward to listening to
Edit: But you need Tyler back ASAP because he's amazing
Edit2: I did the above edit before I realised Tyler just posted. (But seriously. You're the man Tyler)
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8748 Posts
On December 08 2010 19:20 WarSong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 16:09 HollowLord wrote:On December 08 2010 14:19 blitzkrieger wrote:On December 08 2010 13:58 Fa1nT wrote:On December 08 2010 13:55 Zzoram wrote:
PainUser was nice because he knew details about the units in the game like HP/dmg/types. DT has more damage than flying ranged DT (banshees) Therefor DT are the superior harass unit. I'm assuming this is sarcasm. Banshees are infinitely better than DTs since they 1) Can be part of an army 2) Force detection regardless of cloak 3) Force one tech (robo) from Protoss 4) Fly 5) Protoss is weak to air 6) Cheaper 7) Tech is easily accessible 8) Tech is faster 9) There is less of a gamble/all-in 10) Kill workers faster than DTs 11) Ranged 12) Decelerate slowly so they can scoot shoot 13) Workers cant run from them nearly as easily. 14) Detection doesn't render them useless Theres probably more... Hate to burst your bubble but number 10 is wrong, DTs actually kill workers faster =/ oh shit, call the press....ONE of the 16,000 reasons why banshees are superior to DTs was actually NOT true. 15,999 reasons banshee is better + 1 wrong reason = DT win. see? it's math.
haha and even then it's situational. if the workers are all idle just standing next to each other, dt's will be faster. but get some movement involved and some spread out targets involved, and banshees can do better. also, 2 banshees could very well kill faster than 2 dt's. focus firing with dt's is a waste, and letting them kill without any micro is also a waste, but microing 2 dt's is much more difficult than microing 2 banshees.
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I love Incontrol, he's very well spoken and intelligent when he needs to be, and is funny as fuck to boot.
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yo tyler get back on this ish ty
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On December 08 2010 23:03 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 19:20 WarSong wrote:On December 08 2010 16:09 HollowLord wrote:On December 08 2010 14:19 blitzkrieger wrote:On December 08 2010 13:58 Fa1nT wrote:On December 08 2010 13:55 Zzoram wrote:
PainUser was nice because he knew details about the units in the game like HP/dmg/types. DT has more damage than flying ranged DT (banshees) Therefor DT are the superior harass unit. I'm assuming this is sarcasm. Banshees are infinitely better than DTs since they 1) Can be part of an army 2) Force detection regardless of cloak 3) Force one tech (robo) from Protoss 4) Fly 5) Protoss is weak to air 6) Cheaper 7) Tech is easily accessible 8) Tech is faster 9) There is less of a gamble/all-in 10) Kill workers faster than DTs 11) Ranged 12) Decelerate slowly so they can scoot shoot 13) Workers cant run from them nearly as easily. 14) Detection doesn't render them useless Theres probably more... Hate to burst your bubble but number 10 is wrong, DTs actually kill workers faster =/ oh shit, call the press....ONE of the 16,000 reasons why banshees are superior to DTs was actually NOT true. 15,999 reasons banshee is better + 1 wrong reason = DT win. see? it's math. haha and even then it's situational. if the workers are all idle just standing next to each other, dt's will be faster. but get some movement involved and some spread out targets involved, and banshees can do better. also, 2 banshees could very well kill faster than 2 dt's. focus firing with dt's is a waste, and letting them kill without any micro is also a waste, but microing 2 dt's is much more difficult than microing 2 banshees.
just say it, you think painuser is a complete retard
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If anyone is "hurt" by these guys "Bashing" the fans then you're seeing it all wrong. If you feel you're in the group of people they were criticizing theeeeeeen maybe you need to go read back at your posts. They weren't bashing people that honestly try to make productive, reasonable, intelligent posts. These guys just don't wanna wade through trolls and idiots.
Oh yea and banshees > DTs cause they're chicks. Everyone knows terran pilots are the most fun.
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Incontrol said a very true thing in the last SotG, wanted to make a topic about this but..no.
He said "Protoss players don't chronoboost"
And he's right. Oh sure, they chronoboost some probes at the start, or some stuff for their build (warpagte, +1 ground atk...)
But after a while, and it is true for the GSL protosses, for Huk, or for any protoss I saw vod or replays, they'll just stop using chrono and all their nexus will be at max energy. They'll still chrno thermal lance and storm/amulet, nothing else. Very often in mid game I see protosses get +2 atk or +1 armor and not chrono it with 3 or 4 nexus at full energy.
I know a lot of protoss players will jump of me saying that they are an exception, but just watch any famous protosses, you'll see this is true : after a while, they just stop chronoboosting anything.
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8748 Posts
On December 08 2010 23:15 MrCon wrote:
Incontrol said a very true thing in the last SotG, wanted to make a topic about this but..no.
He said "Protoss players don't chronoboost"
And he's right. Oh sure, they chronoboost some probes at the start, or some stuff for their build (warpagte, +1 ground atk...)
But after a while, and it is true for the GSL protosses, for Huk, or for any protoss I saw vod or replays, they'll just stop using chrono and all their nexus will be at max energy. They'll still chrno thermal lance and storm/amulet, nothing else. Very often in mid game I see protosses get +2 atk or +1 armor and not chrono it with 3 or 4 nexus at full energy.
I know a lot of protoss players will jump of me saying that they are an exception, but just watch any famous protosses, you'll see this is true : after a while, they just stop chronoboosting anything.
yeah, because protoss is the most mechanically demanding race, we're still getting comfortable with sc2 interface and havent been able to chronoboost effectively throughout the game yet
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On December 08 2010 23:34 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 23:15 MrCon wrote:
Incontrol said a very true thing in the last SotG, wanted to make a topic about this but..no.
He said "Protoss players don't chronoboost"
And he's right. Oh sure, they chronoboost some probes at the start, or some stuff for their build (warpagte, +1 ground atk...)
But after a while, and it is true for the GSL protosses, for Huk, or for any protoss I saw vod or replays, they'll just stop using chrono and all their nexus will be at max energy. They'll still chrno thermal lance and storm/amulet, nothing else. Very often in mid game I see protosses get +2 atk or +1 armor and not chrono it with 3 or 4 nexus at full energy.
I know a lot of protoss players will jump of me saying that they are an exception, but just watch any famous protosses, you'll see this is true : after a while, they just stop chronoboosting anything. yeah, because protoss is the most mechanically demanding race, we're still getting comfortable with sc2 interface and havent been able to chronoboost effectively throughout the game yet
I am in no position to debate this statement, and will make no attempt to, nor presume that my personal opinion can be held to nearly the same standard as yours on this subject, but...
something tells me that this won't go over too well.
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it is awesome when you stream tyler, makes my day a little more interesting. would love to see you continue doing it =)
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Hi Tyler! While you are blessing us with your presence can you give a few thoughts on the strategy of using chronoboost. Should we focus on the strength of the Protoss (effecient death ball, multiple tech paths) and chrono upgrades and units primarily, or can we take an economic route like vs terran and rely upon a superior economy but with weaker units?
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I keep all my nexi on hotkeys 6-0 and chronoboost whenever I can remember it. Especially in late game I think protoss needs to chronoboost more. From upgrades to gateways, robbos etc.
The difference it makes really adds up.
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EPT
