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On June 23 2012 04:24 dvorakftw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 03:33 fraktoasters wrote:
But the point was that dvorakftw wanted someone to whine for Terran Nice choice of verb. I suppose it is impossible to speak or comment or discuss anything? It's just all whine? Anyway, the question was why is there a stronger complaint now than before about no Terrans on SotG and I think the most likely answer is the abscence of Day9 (and QXC and Illusion or even giving avilo a chance), even if everything he (they) would have hypothetically said on this particular issue turned out to be wrong. As to NoNy's recent comment, I don't quite see the difference between discussing balance and discussing strategy and metagame. And even if there is a difference, I disagree that good ideas cannot come out such discussions. Sure Blizzard will ignore 99% of them and maybe 0.99% of the remaining 1% of ideas they do try don't work out it can still lead to one great new change that originated from someone in the community having a clever thought.
Day9 never makes a balance comment because he doesn't want to antagonize any of the Starcraft fanbase. No matter how bad a match up is looking to be, he will say "The game is young. Let the strategies develop. Hey, how about this unit?". And you know, he actually may be right sometimes, and he may not be other times. Anyway, the point is, that's all he ever says about balance no matter what.
Perhaps they could get qxc on the program as a regular host in the future, but for this particular episode, neither of qxc nor Illusion was available. I can understand how they didn't want avilo on air given his history of being extremely vocal about Terran supposedly being underpowered in the past even when Terran were doing pretty darn well and his rather volatile personality. I personally would not have minded seeing avilo up there for one episode.
I do think that the biggest reason that there is a stronger complaint about SOTG lacking Terran opinion is that Terran are very much struggling against Zerg right now. Terran players are frustrated, and they want someone famous to affirm their frustration on a popular show. To put it harshly, they want their QQ to be voiced on SOTG. It's just human nature.
Nony, Idra, and Incontrol are all pros who spend a ton of time playing and studying this game and I think that makes them entitled to comment on balance even if they don't play Terran. They do play against Terran all the time after all and have Terran teammates they regularly talk to.
However, it's true that they are biased, and I didn't enjoy the way they've been ganging up against Terran lately when Terran are having a very difficult time at all levels. They keep saying that something like this happens every time there is a balance patch, but the sudden huge turnaround in a matchup winrate and the scale of whine from just about every Terran player since patch are unprecedented.
You ask MMA, MKP, MVP, Supernova, Ryung, etc, and none of them hold back in saying that they're having an incredibly difficult time and they believe the most recent patch was unwarranted. All the top Zerg players suddenly feel supremely confident in TvZ. Almost every time there is a TvZ series on Proleague, the casters mention how this match up is very much Zerg favored right now (and by that, they don't say that it's imbalanced. They just say that it's Zerg favored at the moment). For example, when Flash came out against Roro, the casters were saying "It's weird to have Flash play this game, because given the map (Ohana), it was very likely that a Zerg was going to come out, and Terran players are having a very hard time against Zerg right now. Maybe Flash has figured something out and is feeling confident". Well, then Flash proceeded to get crushed by Roro, who had never beaten Flash before. Anyway, I need to stop before this gets too long. I'm just trying to say that the current situation isn't really "oh, this always happens after a patch. People get over it".
JP is a pretty reasonable guy and we will probably see a Terran guest for the next episode, especially after this thread drama. Not sure when the next episode would be though =(
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JP is a reasonably guy, but that does NOT mean he should just do whatever this thread so "cleverly" suggests. Like the totally revolutionazing idea of bringing in at least one of every race! wow you all so smart.
People need to stop thinking so higly of themselves (in public) and try to teach JP or a pillar how to make their show. Yes, constructive criticism is good, but flaming or come up with stupid suggestions like "omg, bring in ANY terran." is not okay.
Stop taking everything they say 100% literal as well. like, who does that. if you just thow away some comments, you do not mean them 100% if you try to actual make a point, then yes, you probably mean exactly that. but stuff like "make more hellions" is not exactly what they mean, people seem to believe that.
also, why is noone listening to what iNcontrol and NonY actually say in this thread. Loud arrogant crowd 
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On June 23 2012 01:39 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Balance discussions are still so uninteresting and unproductive. The only people who should care about balance work at Blizzard. If Blizzard ever wants external opinions, Blizzard personally asks for them and they are privately communicated. The fans should watch for fun. The players should play to win. The designers should balance for fair and exciting competition.
Players waste their time and energy by publicly commenting on balance. Yes, even the GSL champions who comment on balance should be ignored.
And also pros are generaly biased towards their own race, they are not independent observers like Blizzard for example (though I'm sure some people think Blizzard hates Terran), their perceptions of balance are skewed based on whether they are struggling or not in a particular matchup, whether or not this is due to balance.
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On June 23 2012 12:09 Gluttony wrote:also, why is noone listening to what iNcontrol and NonY actually say in this thread. Loud arrogant crowd
It doesn't fit their agenda. They won't be happy until a Terran is a regular host on SOTG and Blizzard reverses the current patch. Then when Zerg can't beat Terran and Idra can't make it on the show, we'll get a shitstorm of Zerg fans/players complaining about bias.
Frankly, having a Terran on the show to talk about TvZ would be pointless. Unless they have devoted the time towards finding a new opening vZ, all they will be able to do is QQ or echo the wait and see response.
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On June 23 2012 04:14 Aeceus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 04:01 Digitalis wrote:On June 23 2012 03:11 Saechiis wrote:On June 23 2012 02:55 Digitalis wrote:
With HotS beta projected for release sometime this summer is Blizzard even going to care to cater to balance whining at this point? I feel like they're going to have their plate full balancing the shit out of all the new HotS additions. Why would they bother, when the metagame slate of sc2 is about to be wiped clean? If they did change/patch sc2 right now it would take a couple of months for the community to feel the waters to see if the patch is appropriate but by that time no one is going to give a flying fuck because either we'll be playing the HotS beta or HotS itself. Because we're playing WoL, not HotS. Did you not read my post? I just explained my opinion on why Blizzard doesn't care about balancing WoL at the moment because it'll be obsolete when HotS comes out. If you're going to respond at least say something like "The pro scene won't transition of HotS immediately and WoL will still be relevant." But honestly if you're not a pro player this won't matter. I assume when HotS comes out everyone will transition 'eventually' because there is no reason to stay, there isn't a nostalgia factor like there was with broodwar. Not true, balance on WoL has no impact on HotS they said it like this week. Both will be balanced seperately.
Cool but who honestly is still going to play WoL? Its like playing vanilla starcraft after Brood war was released. Are you honestly going to keep playing WoL vanilla after HotS is released?
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On June 24 2012 09:47 Digitalis wrote:
Cool but who honestly is still going to play WoL? Its like playing vanilla starcraft after Brood war was released. Are you honestly going to keep playing WoL vanilla after HotS is released?
Since Blizzard has decided to go with an expansion mindset and is not dropping WOL support; the question you pose is loaded.
HotS, to the pros, is a brand new game. It might work. But it might have huge imbalance and uninteresting play. Think of it as the PTR server. From the comments I have seen, most pros do not play there. The PTR changes are minuscule compared to what HotS is going to bring. What it really comes down to is time investment. Are tournaments going to switch to HotS on release. Will there be a tournament during beta? Tournaments have the option. Much like BW they may choose to play an older game because it has better play. Ultimately, they will do whatever the audience wants. It took roughly 2 years to get close to balance in WOL. Why would pro players suffer through that again if they aren't going to see a return.
That being said, the audience 'wants' what it is told to want. Why do you think Blizzard is working so hard at promoting HotS during MLG or embracing Day9? Why do you think Blizzard is paying MLG to run WCS? Blizzcon events are huge in the SC2 world. They know how to run a tournament. Blizzard is cultivating relationships and making fans buy into the 'fact' that HotS is going to be what everyone is going to play. If we expect HotS, tournaments will embrace it and we will buy the game.
Then again, this is Blizzard. They took BW, arguably one of the most well balanced RTS games to date and made SC2 which took 2 years to 'balance' (note those air quotes). What I think is key, is something Incontrol brought up during the last SOTG. HotS is going to be harder play to it's full potential. They have added more caster units. Assuming it is balanced quickly (a big assumption), it will be the better game for pros and audiences.
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Who cares about balance. Surprised not more people give a shit about that GESL stuff that Azael was talking about, god damn there are real shitheads in the community :<
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This thread (recently at least) belongs on the blizzard forums....
That said I want to add a voice to thanking all the hosts do on the show and for the community. I sincerely enjoy watching their streams, games, casting and content. I was really interested to hear about the whole GESL debacle on the show. I was actually in the dark about that, and found it informative and shocking. I wish that were a subject of discussion here.
In what ways can we as viewers and supporters rectify such a situation? Perhaps emailing sponsors and letting them know of our true support can help. Perhaps these famous witch hunts that occur can be directed towards people who actually hurt esports. The discussion should be, what can we do to help, and what can we do to make things better in the future?
On that topic of making things better, the level of toxicity in this thread (and of course, elsewhere) is appalling. Even if you disagree with every word said in an episode of SOTG and despise each of the pillars, there is no cause for vomiting your opinion all over the couches. IMO you should be escorted out of the community for that. Instead, find something you do enjoy, and enjoy that, and let those that enjoy this, enjoy this.
Flame wars and this sense that we are all entitled to having things exactly the way we want them is silly. There is SO much content out there. Find the content you enjoy and revel in your passion for it. Otherwise, make a positive, extremely well thought out, positive post.
If you feel you must post something critical, read these two wikipedia articles to at least begin to understand how you should be thinking and constructing your arguments and criticisms. It may help things to be more civil and intelligent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy
Finally, I want to come back to the GESL debacle. There must be a way to curb this sort of behaviour or rectify any damage that was done.
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Anyone know if Day9 is ever coming back? I realize he is busy but he hasnt been on it in ages.
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On June 24 2012 17:55 mrtomjones wrote:
Anyone know if Day9 is ever coming back? I realize he is busy but he hasnt been on it in ages.
He won't any time soon. It was hard enough to get him on when he was a pillar on the show. Now that he's officially resigned, you can pretty much forget about it completely.
Maybe if he needs a pedestal to plug something he'll come on for a few minutes but I wouldn't expect anything more.
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On June 24 2012 18:05 svefnleysi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 17:55 mrtomjones wrote:
Anyone know if Day9 is ever coming back? I realize he is busy but he hasnt been on it in ages. He won't any time soon. It was hard enough to get him on when he was a pillar on the show. Now that he's officially resigned, you can pretty much forget about it completely. Maybe if he needs a pedestal to plug something he'll come on for a few minutes but I wouldn't expect anything more.
Ahh... I didn't know he officialy resigned.. was there a reason given or just general busyness?
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On June 24 2012 18:44 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 18:05 svefnleysi wrote:On June 24 2012 17:55 mrtomjones wrote:
Anyone know if Day9 is ever coming back? I realize he is busy but he hasnt been on it in ages. He won't any time soon. It was hard enough to get him on when he was a pillar on the show. Now that he's officially resigned, you can pretty much forget about it completely. Maybe if he needs a pedestal to plug something he'll come on for a few minutes but I wouldn't expect anything more. Ahh... I didn't know he officialy resigned.. was there a reason given or just general busyness?
Something to do with Tyler's wife.
(No, he's just busy.)
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On June 24 2012 10:42 BurntTohst wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 09:47 Digitalis wrote:
Cool but who honestly is still going to play WoL? Its like playing vanilla starcraft after Brood war was released. Are you honestly going to keep playing WoL vanilla after HotS is released? Since Blizzard has decided to go with an expansion mindset and is not dropping WOL support; the question you pose is loaded. HotS, to the pros, is a brand new game. It might work. But it might have huge imbalance and uninteresting play. Think of it as the PTR server. From the comments I have seen, most pros do not play there. The PTR changes are minuscule compared to what HotS is going to bring. What it really comes down to is time investment. Are tournaments going to switch to HotS on release. Will there be a tournament during beta? Tournaments have the option. Much like BW they may choose to play an older game because it has better play. Ultimately, they will do whatever the audience wants. It took roughly 2 years to get close to balance in WOL. Why would pro players suffer through that again if they aren't going to see a return. That being said, the audience 'wants' what it is told to want. Why do you think Blizzard is working so hard at promoting HotS during MLG or embracing Day9? Why do you think Blizzard is paying MLG to run WCS? Blizzcon events are huge in the SC2 world. They know how to run a tournament. Blizzard is cultivating relationships and making fans buy into the 'fact' that HotS is going to be what everyone is going to play. If we expect HotS, tournaments will embrace it and we will buy the game. Then again, this is Blizzard. They took BW, arguably one of the most well balanced RTS games to date and made SC2 which took 2 years to 'balance' (note those air quotes). What I think is key, is something Incontrol brought up during the last SOTG. HotS is going to be harder play to it's full potential. They have added more caster units. Assuming it is balanced quickly (a big assumption), it will be the better game for pros and audiences.
Imjussayin this in response to the balance whining be thrown around which led to the hosts getting flamed. Because with HotS on the way I don't realistically see the current pros staying with it long, SC2 brought upon the death of SC:BW and HotS will bring about the death of anyone giving a fuck about balance in WoL.
HotS is WoL + new units. It is not a new game, the transition from WoL to HotS will be a helluva lot smoother than BW to SC2.
It will work, because Blizzard will shoehorn the shit out of HotS to make it work (yes faith in blizzard ikno shootme)
and if they don't catch on quick enough we all know that this community will bitch the shit out of Blizzard until they make it work. With public bitching tools such as TL, Reddit, and Twitter I'm sure Blizzard will catch on pretty quick. Yes blizzard is retarded at times but there are people that work at Blizzard and people learn.... eventually.
SC2's predecessor; BW was old as shit and it was mostly only played by Koreans, because of this Blizzard could not have predicted SC2's success with the foreigner community. The foreigner community blew up SC2 and it is one of the main games played in major e sport tournaments. Through the short years of WoL, Blizzard has learned that our community "gives a damn"~Geoff, and through that learning experience I predict that early years of HotS will be a lot less bumpier than the early years of WoL.
IE: 'Blizzard has gained +10 exp!' 'Blizzard has leveled up!' 'Blizzard has gained +1 intelligence!'
HotS WILL have huge imbalance, and the beta is there to make sure those giant creases are ironed out.
The thing about interesting play and balance is that they are usually correlated. Balanced games are 'usually' more interesting amirite?
The Kespa pros are definitely going to transition to HotS as fast as possible because it will quickly aid in equaling out the experience that separates them and the current WoL pros. and do you seriously think the current pros are not going to play the same game as Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu; The broodwar titans; the best players in the world in a game that was harder than SC2? NOPE
tldr: HotS will succeed so stop balance whining about a game that will be obsolete in a year, i know most of you whiners will transition into HotS anyways.
and stop bringing up the 'blizzard will have still have WoL support' WELL OBVIOUSLY, IT'S THEIR GAME! I don't see 'WoL support' amounting to anything near the realm of constant balance changes. I doubt they're going to a give a shit about further balancing WoL because they will have their plate full with HotS.
PS: AND STOP FLAMING THE HOSTS, THEY PUT ON A GREAT SHOW FOR US EVERY.... COUPLE OF WEEKS SO STOP BEING SO DAMN UNGRATEFUL.
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Lol, i come back to this thread after several months of having forgotten about it and go to my previous post, and a ton of people responded to it
+ Show Spoiler +On March 31 2012 08:37 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 08:01 killerdog wrote:
Incontrol canceled his open bracket spot at ipl 4 to do this show at PAX. A starcraft 2 progamer canceling tournaments to do non-essential tasks. Imagin if Idra canceled Ipl to do inside the game at PAx, there would be community outrage.. We might as well stop calling Incontrol a sc2 pro-gamer. He is no longer that, Hes a PR representive for EG, Nothing more.Nothing less.
- Incontrol is sponsored by kingston, and at every pax event at least one eg player, often incontrol, has been at the kingston booth. It's obviously part of their contract. Now which is the better decision, get to play in an open bracket full of code s koreans and most likely lose quite early, with maby 2-3 games streamed if you lucky, or go to pax and work with fans and sponsors, + host a talk show. Which one gives incontrol the best pr/money...
Players are in no way obligated to play in every tournament if they have some other thing they could do where they make more money/get more pr, especially for a community figure like incontrol, so going to pax is not only best for him, as he gets more attention, btu best for eg, as they keep sponsorship with kingston + get more "eg" air time from incontrol.
(also artosis is being sponsored by kingston in the conteset which was advertised on tl so its not like he flew all the way to america just to do a state of the game, he's also doing fan related things)
day9- can be summed up with artosis, same shit.
Why should he be obligated to fly out to a tournament just to do a 1-2 hour show for a company he has nothing to do with? Whats in it for him?
JP -works for mlg , would never in a million years do a SOTG at ipl4 and expect to keep his job.
same as day9, Why should he be obligated to fly out to an event which he has no realtion to, carry out a 1-2 our long show for their benefit, which they will probably gain money from, just because if he does it at pax instead, mlg looks like an evil mastermind?
At the end of the day, would you rather there wasn't a state of the game at all then at pax? surely the community is best when there are events all over the place competing, they did a sotg at pax last time, so why not again? All this to argue the semantics of whether Incontrol is a "pro gamer". Well, technically he is a contracted player on the team evil genius' and is paid a salary to play a game called starcraft 2. Part of that contract probably involves helping to promote the team and sponsors by doing live events. If the team feels it is better to send him to PAX than to an open bracket at IPL that is their parogative, but that doesn't change what he is, which is, by definition a professional gamer. On March 31 2012 08:42 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 08:01 killerdog wrote:
JP -works for mlg , would never in a million years do a SOTG at ipl4 and expect to keep his job.
I'm pretty sure this is not true. Sundance seems pretty lax about this kind of thing. On March 31 2012 13:59 how wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 08:01 killerdog wrote:
Incontrol canceled his open bracket spot at ipl 4 to do this show at PAX. A starcraft 2 progamer canceling tournaments to do non-essential tasks. Imagin if Idra canceled Ipl to do inside the game at PAx, there would be community outrage.. We might as well stop calling Incontrol a sc2 pro-gamer. He is no longer that, Hes a PR representive for EG, Nothing more.Nothing less.
- Incontrol is sponsored by kingston, and at every pax event at least one eg player, often incontrol, has been at the kingston booth. It's obviously part of their contract. Now which is the better decision, get to play in an open bracket full of code s koreans and most likely lose quite early, with maby 2-3 games streamed if you lucky, or go to pax and work with fans and sponsors, + host a talk show. Which one gives incontrol the best pr/money...
Players are in no way obligated to play in every tournament if they have some other thing they could do where they make more money/get more pr, especially for a community figure like incontrol, so going to pax is not only best for him, as he gets more attention, btu best for eg, as they keep sponsorship with kingston + get more "eg" air time from incontrol.
(also artosis is being sponsored by kingston in the conteset which was advertised on tl so its not like he flew all the way to america just to do a state of the game, he's also doing fan related things)
day9- can be summed up with artosis, same shit.
Why should he be obligated to fly out to a tournament just to do a 1-2 hour show for a company he has nothing to do with? Whats in it for him?
JP -works for mlg , would never in a million years do a SOTG at ipl4 and expect to keep his job.
same as day9, Why should he be obligated to fly out to an event which he has no realtion to, carry out a 1-2 our long show for their benefit, which they will probably gain money from, just because if he does it at pax instead, mlg looks like an evil mastermind?
At the end of the day, would you rather there wasn't a state of the game at all then at pax? surely the community is best when there are events all over the place competing, they did a sotg at pax last time, so why not again? Saying iNcontroL is not a pro gamer is a slap in the face. If you want me to elaborate I will, but I doubt you will read it. Day[9] is not being sponsored by Kingston, how can you compare him to Artosis in that fashion? I don't think MLG is stopping JP from casting at IPl, if I had to guess, it would be that they have a LOT of casters already that they are investing in. Not to mention that JP is not a full time caster, he has other job responsibilities, so while I really like his casting, it makes sense that he does not cast all that often (similar to DJwheat.) Your last part is really poorly worded, you start by assuming you have convinced us that is would be better if SoTG wasn't at pax, then the next sentence says that they did one at the last pax, so why not again, as if there is no reason not to. Do you want them to do it or not? On April 01 2012 10:32 krisss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 08:01 killerdog wrote:
Incontrol canceled his open bracket spot at ipl 4 to do this show at PAX. A starcraft 2 progamer canceling tournaments to do non-essential tasks. Imagin if Idra canceled Ipl to do inside the game at PAx, there would be community outrage.. We might as well stop calling Incontrol a sc2 pro-gamer. He is no longer that, Hes a PR representive for EG, Nothing more.Nothing less.
- Incontrol is sponsored by kingston, and at every pax event at least one eg player, often incontrol, has been at the kingston booth. It's obviously part of their contract. Now which is the better decision, get to play in an open bracket full of code s koreans and most likely lose quite early, with maby 2-3 games streamed if you lucky, or go to pax and work with fans and sponsors, + host a talk show. Which one gives incontrol the best pr/money...
Players are in no way obligated to play in every tournament if they have some other thing they could do where they make more money/get more pr, especially for a community figure like incontrol, so going to pax is not only best for him, as he gets more attention, btu best for eg, as they keep sponsorship with kingston + get more "eg" air time from incontrol.
(also artosis is being sponsored by kingston in the conteset which was advertised on tl so its not like he flew all the way to america just to do a state of the game, he's also doing fan related things)
day9- can be summed up with artosis, same shit.
Why should he be obligated to fly out to a tournament just to do a 1-2 hour show for a company he has nothing to do with? Whats in it for him?
JP -works for mlg , would never in a million years do a SOTG at ipl4 and expect to keep his job.
same as day9, Why should he be obligated to fly out to an event which he has no realtion to, carry out a 1-2 our long show for their benefit, which they will probably gain money from, just because if he does it at pax instead, mlg looks like an evil mastermind?
At the end of the day, would you rather there wasn't a state of the game at all then at pax? surely the community is best when there are events all over the place competing, they did a sotg at pax last time, so why not again? That's the whole problem with SC2 journalism. There is not 1 neutral Sc2 journalist out there that is well known. In the current state we only have lemmings running in a Berlusconi'esque system. Pretty much all of the figures in such formats are trapped in this Berlusconi-system. They profit from it, so why change it? Jp and Wheat the most well know hosts for such "Journalistic" formats are paid by MLG. They get travel paid, casts paid, ... No way in hell they are objective. Even if they try to, its just not possible. Artosis and day9 is pretty much the same situation. They profit from tournament organizers that hire them. No way in hell they talk bad about such tournaments. INcontrol sees his future in esports. He says it all the time, and he bahaves like it. He would rather insult his viewers, than a tournament organizer. Only ones left are IdrA and Nony. Since Nony never watches any torunaments or anythign else, hes out..  IdrA is nice. He sometimes "overreacts" but at least he is honest. I still like those shows, 90% of what they do is awesome, but those 10% of "non-objectivity" just sucks, and you should work on it. I remember when they did talk about IEM Sao Paulo, it was JP say that those "winning ceremonies" at IEM suck etc etc etc etc. Then at Winter Arena, with the most awekwards finals ever, and no winning ceremony at all.. this wasnt even a big concern. If you guys had the same critizism for every event that you have for IEM events, the show would be 99% awesome. unfortunately that not possible when you get paid by those other events On April 01 2012 12:53 flowSthead wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 10:32 krisss wrote:On March 31 2012 08:01 killerdog wrote:
Incontrol canceled his open bracket spot at ipl 4 to do this show at PAX. A starcraft 2 progamer canceling tournaments to do non-essential tasks. Imagin if Idra canceled Ipl to do inside the game at PAx, there would be community outrage.. We might as well stop calling Incontrol a sc2 pro-gamer. He is no longer that, Hes a PR representive for EG, Nothing more.Nothing less.
- Incontrol is sponsored by kingston, and at every pax event at least one eg player, often incontrol, has been at the kingston booth. It's obviously part of their contract. Now which is the better decision, get to play in an open bracket full of code s koreans and most likely lose quite early, with maby 2-3 games streamed if you lucky, or go to pax and work with fans and sponsors, + host a talk show. Which one gives incontrol the best pr/money...
Players are in no way obligated to play in every tournament if they have some other thing they could do where they make more money/get more pr, especially for a community figure like incontrol, so going to pax is not only best for him, as he gets more attention, btu best for eg, as they keep sponsorship with kingston + get more "eg" air time from incontrol.
(also artosis is being sponsored by kingston in the conteset which was advertised on tl so its not like he flew all the way to america just to do a state of the game, he's also doing fan related things)
day9- can be summed up with artosis, same shit.
Why should he be obligated to fly out to a tournament just to do a 1-2 hour show for a company he has nothing to do with? Whats in it for him?
JP -works for mlg , would never in a million years do a SOTG at ipl4 and expect to keep his job.
same as day9, Why should he be obligated to fly out to an event which he has no realtion to, carry out a 1-2 our long show for their benefit, which they will probably gain money from, just because if he does it at pax instead, mlg looks like an evil mastermind?
At the end of the day, would you rather there wasn't a state of the game at all then at pax? surely the community is best when there are events all over the place competing, they did a sotg at pax last time, so why not again? That's the whole problem with SC2 journalism. There is not 1 neutral Sc2 journalist out there that is well known. In the current state we only have lemmings running in a Berlusconi'esque system. Pretty much all of the figures in such formats are trapped in this Berlusconi-system. They profit from it, so why change it? Jp and Wheat the most well know hosts for such "Journalistic" formats are paid by MLG. They get travel paid, casts paid, ... No way in hell they are objective. Even if they try to, its just not possible. Artosis and day9 is pretty much the same situation. They profit from tournament organizers that hire them. No way in hell they talk bad about such tournaments. INcontrol sees his future in esports. He says it all the time, and he bahaves like it. He would rather insult his viewers, than a tournament organizer. Only ones left are IdrA and Nony. Since Nony never watches any torunaments or anythign else, hes out.. IdrA is nice. He sometimes "overreacts" but at least he is honest. I still like those shows, 90% of what they do is awesome, but those 10% of "non-objectivity" just sucks, and you should work on it. I remember when they did talk about IEM Sao Paulo, it was JP say that those "winning ceremonies" at IEM suck etc etc etc etc. Then at Winter Arena, with the most awekwards finals ever, and no winning ceremony at all.. this wasnt even a big concern. If you guys had the same critizism for every event that you have for IEM events, the show would be 99% awesome. unfortunately that not possible when you get paid by those other events That's nice and all but objectivity in journalism is a myth. I think what we have in eSports is much better than what we have in say the New York Times or even individual reporters of Al Jazeera. Unless you spend your time looking at the people that advertise for the those newspapers, looking at their owners personal poltiics, at the politics of individual reports, you are never going to know which bias your source has. eSports on the other hand has its main players wearing their influence on their sleeve. JP works for MLG. If he has something biased to say about MLG, everyone knows why he is biased. It is completely clear. Artosis works for GSL, iNcontroL is on EG, Nony is on TeamLiquid, and Day9 works with all of these people. Of course they aren't going to shit on their employers, but seeing as their employers are their main sources of income (except for Day9 of course who is funded by Sesame Street), their biases are also extremely obvious. This is literally the best practical situation we could be in. The best theoretical situation would be to have completely unbiased journalism. But since that doesn't exist in the mainstream news (and never really has), why would you expect it to in eSports? EDIT: In regards to Day9, this is also obvious because you never see him comment on Cookie Monster saying that "cookies are a sometimes food". If Day9 wasn't biased towards his muppet employers he would be all over that, but all we get from him is silence. But that's okay because I don't expect Day9 to burn his bridges like that. On April 02 2012 07:01 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 10:32 krisss wrote:On March 31 2012 08:01 killerdog wrote:
Incontrol canceled his open bracket spot at ipl 4 to do this show at PAX. A starcraft 2 progamer canceling tournaments to do non-essential tasks. Imagin if Idra canceled Ipl to do inside the game at PAx, there would be community outrage.. We might as well stop calling Incontrol a sc2 pro-gamer. He is no longer that, Hes a PR representive for EG, Nothing more.Nothing less.
- Incontrol is sponsored by kingston, and at every pax event at least one eg player, often incontrol, has been at the kingston booth. It's obviously part of their contract. Now which is the better decision, get to play in an open bracket full of code s koreans and most likely lose quite early, with maby 2-3 games streamed if you lucky, or go to pax and work with fans and sponsors, + host a talk show. Which one gives incontrol the best pr/money...
Players are in no way obligated to play in every tournament if they have some other thing they could do where they make more money/get more pr, especially for a community figure like incontrol, so going to pax is not only best for him, as he gets more attention, btu best for eg, as they keep sponsorship with kingston + get more "eg" air time from incontrol.
(also artosis is being sponsored by kingston in the conteset which was advertised on tl so its not like he flew all the way to america just to do a state of the game, he's also doing fan related things)
day9- can be summed up with artosis, same shit.
Why should he be obligated to fly out to a tournament just to do a 1-2 hour show for a company he has nothing to do with? Whats in it for him?
JP -works for mlg , would never in a million years do a SOTG at ipl4 and expect to keep his job.
same as day9, Why should he be obligated to fly out to an event which he has no realtion to, carry out a 1-2 our long show for their benefit, which they will probably gain money from, just because if he does it at pax instead, mlg looks like an evil mastermind?
At the end of the day, would you rather there wasn't a state of the game at all then at pax? surely the community is best when there are events all over the place competing, they did a sotg at pax last time, so why not again? That's the whole problem with SC2 journalism. There is not 1 neutral Sc2 journalist out there that is well known. In the current state we only have lemmings running in a Berlusconi'esque system. Pretty much all of the figures in such formats are trapped in this Berlusconi-system. They profit from it, so why change it? Jp and Wheat the most well know hosts for such "Journalistic" formats are paid by MLG. They get travel paid, casts paid, ... No way in hell they are objective. Even if they try to, its just not possible. Artosis and day9 is pretty much the same situation. They profit from tournament organizers that hire them. No way in hell they talk bad about such tournaments. INcontrol sees his future in esports. He says it all the time, and he bahaves like it. He would rather insult his viewers, than a tournament organizer. Only ones left are IdrA and Nony. Since Nony never watches any torunaments or anythign else, hes out.. IdrA is nice. He sometimes "overreacts" but at least he is honest. I still like those shows, 90% of what they do is awesome, but those 10% of "non-objectivity" just sucks, and you should work on it. I remember when they did talk about IEM Sao Paulo, it was JP say that those "winning ceremonies" at IEM suck etc etc etc etc. Then at Winter Arena, with the most awekwards finals ever, and no winning ceremony at all.. this wasnt even a big concern. If you guys had the same critizism for every event that you have for IEM events, the show would be 99% awesome. unfortunately that not possible when you get paid by those other events i get paid for every event i place in and every event i cast for, those comments were made about iem cuz iem is the event that had those problems. if mlg put us up in a shit hotel or ipl didnt have food for players at their event youd hear us bitching about it just as loud. but they dont.
I was responding to this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145494¤tpage=2136#42703
and pasted a few lines of it into my answer to show which parts i was adressing... Now everyone thinks i'm a douche
Guess thats what happens if you make a post then don't read the replies 
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you know who 's opinion would be awesome to hear on TvZ state ?
Morrow's.
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On June 24 2012 19:56 Kerm wrote:
you know who 's opinion would be awesome to hear on TvZ state ?
Morrow's.
Kind of hard to get EUs on the show, given at which time it airs.
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On June 24 2012 19:56 Kerm wrote:
you know who 's opinion would be awesome to hear on TvZ state ?
Morrow's.
pretty sure morrow thinks terran is garbage he posted apologies for allowing select to get ro8 in tlopen LOL
but actually id wish morrow would give his opinions more often on shows and such, not on tvz but in general cuz hes really smart and is always as articulate as he can, and he always has an interesting perspective to offer imo
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On June 24 2012 18:51 svefnleysi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 18:44 mrtomjones wrote:On June 24 2012 18:05 svefnleysi wrote:On June 24 2012 17:55 mrtomjones wrote:
Anyone know if Day9 is ever coming back? I realize he is busy but he hasnt been on it in ages. He won't any time soon. It was hard enough to get him on when he was a pillar on the show. Now that he's officially resigned, you can pretty much forget about it completely. Maybe if he needs a pedestal to plug something he'll come on for a few minutes but I wouldn't expect anything more. Ahh... I didn't know he officialy resigned.. was there a reason given or just general busyness? Something to do with Tyler's wife. (No, he's just busy.)
His wife is a doctor and got a job offer in a different state. So he's been packing/moving/unpacking.
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On June 25 2012 06:13 ShatterZer0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 18:51 svefnleysi wrote:On June 24 2012 18:44 mrtomjones wrote:On June 24 2012 18:05 svefnleysi wrote:On June 24 2012 17:55 mrtomjones wrote:
Anyone know if Day9 is ever coming back? I realize he is busy but he hasnt been on it in ages. He won't any time soon. It was hard enough to get him on when he was a pillar on the show. Now that he's officially resigned, you can pretty much forget about it completely. Maybe if he needs a pedestal to plug something he'll come on for a few minutes but I wouldn't expect anything more. Ahh... I didn't know he officialy resigned.. was there a reason given or just general busyness? Something to do with Tyler's wife. (No, he's just busy.) His wife is a doctor and got a job offer in a different state. So he's been packing/moving/unpacking.
What a nice guy, didn't know he's been helping Tyler move.
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EPT
