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On May 30 2012 01:47 SeinGalton wrote:
I'm actually not invested in the welfare of ls, nor do I find something that has no bearing on me offensive. That may have come off as more vitriolic than I intended, but $500 is a lot of cash where I'm from and considering his contentious invitation I'm surprised that he didn't do his best to redeem it. Of course a weekend of competitive SC2 for $500 might be hard bargain and I might be wrong. Even if it is not - even if what LS did is deplorable and there is no way to justify it - I'm the last person interested in doing anything about it. But considering that I actually work weeks for that kind of cash, I'm sure you can see how I find it pretty disgusting.
If someone offered you 500 bucks for playing a weeekend of starcraft are you saying you wouldn't take it?
Because that would be silly.
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On May 30 2012 02:36 SnuggleZhenya wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 01:47 SeinGalton wrote:
I'm actually not invested in the welfare of ls, nor do I find something that has no bearing on me offensive. That may have come off as more vitriolic than I intended, but $500 is a lot of cash where I'm from and considering his contentious invitation I'm surprised that he didn't do his best to redeem it. Of course a weekend of competitive SC2 for $500 might be hard bargain and I might be wrong. Even if it is not - even if what LS did is deplorable and there is no way to justify it - I'm the last person interested in doing anything about it. But considering that I actually work weeks for that kind of cash, I'm sure you can see how I find it pretty disgusting.
If someone offered you 500 bucks for playing a weeekend of starcraft are you saying you wouldn't take it? Because that would be silly.
No ... I'm saying the opposite. I'd play the entire weekend on a trampoline with a migraine for half that.
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On May 30 2012 01:47 SeinGalton wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 00:56 Angel_ wrote:On May 30 2012 00:50 yeint wrote:On May 29 2012 21:27 SeinGalton wrote:Actually thought Day's response was a little wierd: "Day[9], some people are saying you're only doing this for the money and that you're disingenuous." "No, I work really hard." Stephano actually gave Day the correct answer at the LAN: "Stupid question." On May 29 2012 08:46 Duravi wrote:
Don't forget, he still got $500 even for bombing out. So we can confirm that LS lacked the decency to also forfeit his last place prize money? I was hoping this wasn't the case, because if it is ... well that would be disgusting behaviour. Are you actually being serious? yes, he is actually being serious. Welcome to the burn-everyone-at-the-stake members of the community that don't actually think about things in any sort of realistic "real-world" way that are really actually offended over anything they can be. Hopefully a reddit thread won't get made about it so there's a chance LS will still be allowed to try to qualify in the future. Then again he's not on a team to kick him, doesn't have sponsors to boot him, and Gom probably doesn't give a shit about enraged community (like most sponsors and tournaments really should given our community). I'm actually not invested in the welfare of ls, nor do I find something that has no bearing on me offensive. That may have come off as more vitriolic than I intended, but $500 is a lot of cash where I'm from and considering his contentious invitation I'm surprised that he didn't do his best to redeem it. Of course a weekend of competitive SC2 for $500 might be hard bargain and I might be wrong. Even if it is not - even if what LS did is deplorable and there is no way to justify it - I'm the last person interested in doing anything about it. But considering that I actually work weeks for that kind of cash, I'm sure you can see how I find it pretty disgusting.
Do you not understand how purchasing power parity works? $500 is not a massive amount of money in the US, because it buys far less goods/services than it would in SA.
It might take you weeks to earn $500, but there are parts of the world where people need to work for months for that kind of money. And contrariwise there are places where $500 won't even pay a week's rent in a modest apartment.
At any rate, Lastshadow did exactly what he was supposed to do - he competed and tried to win. So he wasn't the best invite, who gives a shit? There have been questionable invites to many invitationals and no one lost their shit over it.
But apparently a certain subset of the Starcraft community is so addicted to Internet drama they just can't pass up an opportunity to use this incredibly trivial non-issue to crucify Day9, as some sort of amazing act of iconoclasm.
Anyone who doesn't respect Day9 for the work he's done over years and years for this game is a drooling retard. He'd literally have to pull some sort of Gus Ledesma crap to deserve scorn from anyone.
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On May 30 2012 03:45 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 01:47 SeinGalton wrote:On May 30 2012 00:56 Angel_ wrote:On May 30 2012 00:50 yeint wrote:On May 29 2012 21:27 SeinGalton wrote:Actually thought Day's response was a little wierd: "Day[9], some people are saying you're only doing this for the money and that you're disingenuous." "No, I work really hard." Stephano actually gave Day the correct answer at the LAN: "Stupid question." On May 29 2012 08:46 Duravi wrote:
Don't forget, he still got $500 even for bombing out. So we can confirm that LS lacked the decency to also forfeit his last place prize money? I was hoping this wasn't the case, because if it is ... well that would be disgusting behaviour. Are you actually being serious? yes, he is actually being serious. Welcome to the burn-everyone-at-the-stake members of the community that don't actually think about things in any sort of realistic "real-world" way that are really actually offended over anything they can be. Hopefully a reddit thread won't get made about it so there's a chance LS will still be allowed to try to qualify in the future. Then again he's not on a team to kick him, doesn't have sponsors to boot him, and Gom probably doesn't give a shit about enraged community (like most sponsors and tournaments really should given our community). I'm actually not invested in the welfare of ls, nor do I find something that has no bearing on me offensive. That may have come off as more vitriolic than I intended, but $500 is a lot of cash where I'm from and considering his contentious invitation I'm surprised that he didn't do his best to redeem it. Of course a weekend of competitive SC2 for $500 might be hard bargain and I might be wrong. Even if it is not - even if what LS did is deplorable and there is no way to justify it - I'm the last person interested in doing anything about it. But considering that I actually work weeks for that kind of cash, I'm sure you can see how I find it pretty disgusting. Do you not understand how purchasing power parity works? $500 is not a massive amount of money in the US, because it buys far less goods/services than it would in SA. It might take you weeks to earn $500, but there are parts of the world where people need to work for months for that kind of money. And contrariwise there are places where $500 won't even pay a week's rent in a modest apartment. At any rate, Lastshadow did exactly what he was supposed to do - he competed and tried to win. So he wasn't the best invite, who gives a shit? There have been questionable invites to many invitationals and no one lost their shit over it. But apparently a certain subset of the Starcraft community is so addicted to Internet drama they just can't pass up an opportunity to use this incredibly trivial non-issue to crucify Day9, as some sort of amazing act of iconoclasm. Anyone who doesn't respect Day9 for the work he's done over years and years for this game is a drooling retard. He'd literally have to pull some sort of Gus Ledesma crap to deserve scorn from anyone.
Forfeiting 1/3 of his matches = competing? Okay..
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On May 30 2012 03:46 Neelia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 03:45 yeint wrote:On May 30 2012 01:47 SeinGalton wrote:On May 30 2012 00:56 Angel_ wrote:On May 30 2012 00:50 yeint wrote:On May 29 2012 21:27 SeinGalton wrote:Actually thought Day's response was a little wierd: "Day[9], some people are saying you're only doing this for the money and that you're disingenuous." "No, I work really hard." Stephano actually gave Day the correct answer at the LAN: "Stupid question." On May 29 2012 08:46 Duravi wrote:
Don't forget, he still got $500 even for bombing out. So we can confirm that LS lacked the decency to also forfeit his last place prize money? I was hoping this wasn't the case, because if it is ... well that would be disgusting behaviour. Are you actually being serious? yes, he is actually being serious. Welcome to the burn-everyone-at-the-stake members of the community that don't actually think about things in any sort of realistic "real-world" way that are really actually offended over anything they can be. Hopefully a reddit thread won't get made about it so there's a chance LS will still be allowed to try to qualify in the future. Then again he's not on a team to kick him, doesn't have sponsors to boot him, and Gom probably doesn't give a shit about enraged community (like most sponsors and tournaments really should given our community). I'm actually not invested in the welfare of ls, nor do I find something that has no bearing on me offensive. That may have come off as more vitriolic than I intended, but $500 is a lot of cash where I'm from and considering his contentious invitation I'm surprised that he didn't do his best to redeem it. Of course a weekend of competitive SC2 for $500 might be hard bargain and I might be wrong. Even if it is not - even if what LS did is deplorable and there is no way to justify it - I'm the last person interested in doing anything about it. But considering that I actually work weeks for that kind of cash, I'm sure you can see how I find it pretty disgusting. Do you not understand how purchasing power parity works? $500 is not a massive amount of money in the US, because it buys far less goods/services than it would in SA. It might take you weeks to earn $500, but there are parts of the world where people need to work for months for that kind of money. And contrariwise there are places where $500 won't even pay a week's rent in a modest apartment. At any rate, Lastshadow did exactly what he was supposed to do - he competed and tried to win. So he wasn't the best invite, who gives a shit? There have been questionable invites to many invitationals and no one lost their shit over it. But apparently a certain subset of the Starcraft community is so addicted to Internet drama they just can't pass up an opportunity to use this incredibly trivial non-issue to crucify Day9, as some sort of amazing act of iconoclasm. Anyone who doesn't respect Day9 for the work he's done over years and years for this game is a drooling retard. He'd literally have to pull some sort of Gus Ledesma crap to deserve scorn from anyone. Forfeiting 1/3 of his matches = competing? Okay..
Forfeiting one out of his three matches, because he was sick and had no chance to improve his standing even if he won.
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Not sure why Day9's casting takes so much shit too. I think it's just becoming a popular thing to do.
I think it started when Cloud posted his vlog no one cares about except that he insulted some people in. But that doesn't matter, what does, is that Day9 is a decent and knowledgeable caster. In my eyes, that's not really debatable.
Sometimes, does he harp on something insignificant that was probably just "random bullshit" on the part of the player? Yes. But is that a fault on him, or the quality of players? He's been playing and watching and casting BW games for over a decade at a very competitive level. If these players are just doing random bullshit, maybe some attention should be paid to the reasons WHY they do it. Maybe they made two marines instead of one because their build order sucks and they haven't optimized it...But you know what, maybe those two marines WOULD help against some early rush. Maybe it's a side of the coin to look at.
When I watched him cast the RBBG, he was frequently calling build orders before they happened. Calling out decisions as they happened, and giving some analysis with it, making the game exciting.
Keep in mind, he's doing this with all the pressure of an event he did a huge chunk of the decision making on. Keep in mind he's doing this on a stage, in front of thousands of people analyzing every move and word.
While people constantly talk in his ear about things going on. Playing off a co-caster. None of us could do this worth a damn. Youtube's full of a bunch of failed casters than can't analyze, aren't exciting.
So does he get it right 100% of the time? No way, he's not in their head. He takes what he sees and looks at why this might be happening. Is it wrong? Sometimes, but who cares, maybe some of the things he examines should be examined.
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On May 30 2012 03:45 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 01:47 SeinGalton wrote:On May 30 2012 00:56 Angel_ wrote:On May 30 2012 00:50 yeint wrote:On May 29 2012 21:27 SeinGalton wrote:Actually thought Day's response was a little wierd: "Day[9], some people are saying you're only doing this for the money and that you're disingenuous." "No, I work really hard." Stephano actually gave Day the correct answer at the LAN: "Stupid question." On May 29 2012 08:46 Duravi wrote:
Don't forget, he still got $500 even for bombing out. So we can confirm that LS lacked the decency to also forfeit his last place prize money? I was hoping this wasn't the case, because if it is ... well that would be disgusting behaviour. Are you actually being serious? yes, he is actually being serious. Welcome to the burn-everyone-at-the-stake members of the community that don't actually think about things in any sort of realistic "real-world" way that are really actually offended over anything they can be. Hopefully a reddit thread won't get made about it so there's a chance LS will still be allowed to try to qualify in the future. Then again he's not on a team to kick him, doesn't have sponsors to boot him, and Gom probably doesn't give a shit about enraged community (like most sponsors and tournaments really should given our community). I'm actually not invested in the welfare of ls, nor do I find something that has no bearing on me offensive. That may have come off as more vitriolic than I intended, but $500 is a lot of cash where I'm from and considering his contentious invitation I'm surprised that he didn't do his best to redeem it. Of course a weekend of competitive SC2 for $500 might be hard bargain and I might be wrong. Even if it is not - even if what LS did is deplorable and there is no way to justify it - I'm the last person interested in doing anything about it. But considering that I actually work weeks for that kind of cash, I'm sure you can see how I find it pretty disgusting. Do you not understand how purchasing power parity works? $500 is not a massive amount of money in the US, because it buys far less goods/services than it would in SA. It might take you weeks to earn $500, but there are parts of the world where people need to work for months for that kind of money. And contrariwise there are places where $500 won't even pay a week's rent in a modest apartment. At any rate, Lastshadow did exactly what he was supposed to do - he competed and tried to win. So he wasn't the best invite, who gives a shit? There have been questionable invites to many invitationals and no one lost their shit over it. But apparently a certain subset of the Starcraft community is so addicted to Internet drama they just can't pass up an opportunity to use this incredibly trivial non-issue to crucify Day9, as some sort of amazing act of iconoclasm. Anyone who doesn't respect Day9 for the work he's done over years and years for this game is a drooling retard. He'd literally have to pull some sort of Gus Ledesma crap to deserve scorn from anyone.
You seem, at the very least, like a moderately intelligent person. I like intelligent people. I like how you punctuate your sentences, too few people on here have any regard for that and I think it shows character. You have used some fairly sophisticated words and I like that too - you've been concise rather than verbose. I don't know who Gus Ledesma is, but I'll make sure to look it up. I like that you've made a reference to someone I don't know yet. You started all this by asking me whether I was serious and I mostly like that - I've heard that I can be tough to read. It detracts from the fun of the conversation a little, though.
I dislike how you seem to expect me to take you seriously when you address me as though I'm a moron, but since you have: please tell me more about economics. I heard that different countries use different currencies once, but I'm not sure I believe that and I'd love to know more. Especially since I might be made a fool if, once I find out, I realize that a weekend of competitive SC2 in fact not worth $500 or even R500. I suspect I may even endorse the behaviour of LS once I know what you seem to know about "purchasing power parity." I might be hoping for too much but perhaps I can also find out why you suddenly started talking about Day[9]? I said that I don't think he should be responding seriously to any of these criticisms, but I don't even know the Rand/Dollar exchange rate, so I'll gladly be corrected on that.
Alternatively, we can leave it here and forever cherish the memories.
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On May 30 2012 03:45 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 01:47 SeinGalton wrote:On May 30 2012 00:56 Angel_ wrote:On May 30 2012 00:50 yeint wrote:On May 29 2012 21:27 SeinGalton wrote:Actually thought Day's response was a little wierd: "Day[9], some people are saying you're only doing this for the money and that you're disingenuous." "No, I work really hard." Stephano actually gave Day the correct answer at the LAN: "Stupid question." On May 29 2012 08:46 Duravi wrote:
Don't forget, he still got $500 even for bombing out. So we can confirm that LS lacked the decency to also forfeit his last place prize money? I was hoping this wasn't the case, because if it is ... well that would be disgusting behaviour. Are you actually being serious? yes, he is actually being serious. Welcome to the burn-everyone-at-the-stake members of the community that don't actually think about things in any sort of realistic "real-world" way that are really actually offended over anything they can be. Hopefully a reddit thread won't get made about it so there's a chance LS will still be allowed to try to qualify in the future. Then again he's not on a team to kick him, doesn't have sponsors to boot him, and Gom probably doesn't give a shit about enraged community (like most sponsors and tournaments really should given our community). I'm actually not invested in the welfare of ls, nor do I find something that has no bearing on me offensive. That may have come off as more vitriolic than I intended, but $500 is a lot of cash where I'm from and considering his contentious invitation I'm surprised that he didn't do his best to redeem it. Of course a weekend of competitive SC2 for $500 might be hard bargain and I might be wrong. Even if it is not - even if what LS did is deplorable and there is no way to justify it - I'm the last person interested in doing anything about it. But considering that I actually work weeks for that kind of cash, I'm sure you can see how I find it pretty disgusting. Do you not understand how purchasing power parity works? $500 is not a massive amount of money in the US, because it buys far less goods/services than it would in SA. It might take you weeks to earn $500, but there are parts of the world where people need to work for months for that kind of money. And contrariwise there are places where $500 won't even pay a week's rent in a modest apartment. At any rate, Lastshadow did exactly what he was supposed to do - he competed and tried to win. So he wasn't the best invite, who gives a shit? There have been questionable invites to many invitationals and no one lost their shit over it. But apparently a certain subset of the Starcraft community is so addicted to Internet drama they just can't pass up an opportunity to use this incredibly trivial non-issue to crucify Day9, as some sort of amazing act of iconoclasm. Anyone who doesn't respect Day9 for the work he's done over years and years for this game is a drooling retard. He'd literally have to pull some sort of Gus Ledesma crap to deserve scorn from anyone.
As a drooling retard, I would like to remind you of this.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145494¤tpage=2279#45577
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On May 30 2012 03:17 SeinGalton wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 02:36 SnuggleZhenya wrote:On May 30 2012 01:47 SeinGalton wrote:
I'm actually not invested in the welfare of ls, nor do I find something that has no bearing on me offensive. That may have come off as more vitriolic than I intended, but $500 is a lot of cash where I'm from and considering his contentious invitation I'm surprised that he didn't do his best to redeem it. Of course a weekend of competitive SC2 for $500 might be hard bargain and I might be wrong. Even if it is not - even if what LS did is deplorable and there is no way to justify it - I'm the last person interested in doing anything about it. But considering that I actually work weeks for that kind of cash, I'm sure you can see how I find it pretty disgusting.
If someone offered you 500 bucks for playing a weeekend of starcraft are you saying you wouldn't take it? Because that would be silly. No ... I'm saying the opposite. I'd play the entire weekend on a trampoline with a migraine for half that.
So.. it is ok for you to do it, but not for someone else?
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I gave you a rather facetious lesson on economics because you seemed genuinely angry that LS undeservedy got some ungodly amount of money. $500 is not an ungodly amount of money in the US, and if it is elsewhere in the world (it actually is for some people in my part of the world, too), that's completely irrelevant. If it was $50, would you be equally shocked over how he "despicably" didn't refuse his last place prize money?
The reason I brought up Day9 is because this whole argument is over LS getting there because of the "unfair" and supposedly nepotistic influence of Day9, who is one of the organizers. Or do you presume to tell me that you are angry at any random player who does badly at a tournament?
By the way, as to our snarky economics discussion, I'm quite curious as to why you're talking about exchange rates. Exchange rates have nothing to do with purchasing power. Whether we're talking about $500 or R4171.4 (yay google!), it buys exactly the same amount of goods and services in a given country.
The funny part is that LS realistically deserved more than $500. For all the bellyaching over him, all the idiots raising a ruckus because of the invite were actually a massive promotional tool for the event. I know I heard about it initially in a (now closed) thread where people were whining about it. That's $500 well spent, even though I don't for a moment think this was some sort of intentional marketing move.
Asking you if you were serious was a rhetorical question, by the way. I think your original statement, that a player should refuse a last place prize because he didn't win a match, is absolutely preposterous.
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On May 30 2012 05:56 Apollo_Shards wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 03:45 yeint wrote:On May 30 2012 01:47 SeinGalton wrote:On May 30 2012 00:56 Angel_ wrote:On May 30 2012 00:50 yeint wrote:On May 29 2012 21:27 SeinGalton wrote:Actually thought Day's response was a little wierd: "Day[9], some people are saying you're only doing this for the money and that you're disingenuous." "No, I work really hard." Stephano actually gave Day the correct answer at the LAN: "Stupid question." On May 29 2012 08:46 Duravi wrote:
Don't forget, he still got $500 even for bombing out. So we can confirm that LS lacked the decency to also forfeit his last place prize money? I was hoping this wasn't the case, because if it is ... well that would be disgusting behaviour. Are you actually being serious? yes, he is actually being serious. Welcome to the burn-everyone-at-the-stake members of the community that don't actually think about things in any sort of realistic "real-world" way that are really actually offended over anything they can be. Hopefully a reddit thread won't get made about it so there's a chance LS will still be allowed to try to qualify in the future. Then again he's not on a team to kick him, doesn't have sponsors to boot him, and Gom probably doesn't give a shit about enraged community (like most sponsors and tournaments really should given our community). I'm actually not invested in the welfare of ls, nor do I find something that has no bearing on me offensive. That may have come off as more vitriolic than I intended, but $500 is a lot of cash where I'm from and considering his contentious invitation I'm surprised that he didn't do his best to redeem it. Of course a weekend of competitive SC2 for $500 might be hard bargain and I might be wrong. Even if it is not - even if what LS did is deplorable and there is no way to justify it - I'm the last person interested in doing anything about it. But considering that I actually work weeks for that kind of cash, I'm sure you can see how I find it pretty disgusting. Do you not understand how purchasing power parity works? $500 is not a massive amount of money in the US, because it buys far less goods/services than it would in SA. It might take you weeks to earn $500, but there are parts of the world where people need to work for months for that kind of money. And contrariwise there are places where $500 won't even pay a week's rent in a modest apartment. At any rate, Lastshadow did exactly what he was supposed to do - he competed and tried to win. So he wasn't the best invite, who gives a shit? There have been questionable invites to many invitationals and no one lost their shit over it. But apparently a certain subset of the Starcraft community is so addicted to Internet drama they just can't pass up an opportunity to use this incredibly trivial non-issue to crucify Day9, as some sort of amazing act of iconoclasm. Anyone who doesn't respect Day9 for the work he's done over years and years for this game is a drooling retard. He'd literally have to pull some sort of Gus Ledesma crap to deserve scorn from anyone. As a drooling retard, I would like to remind you of this. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145494¤tpage=2279#45577
There's a massive difference between going to an invitational and accepting a freebie seed to a tournament others have to qualify for, don't you think?
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On May 30 2012 06:05 SnuggleZhenya wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 03:17 SeinGalton wrote:On May 30 2012 02:36 SnuggleZhenya wrote:On May 30 2012 01:47 SeinGalton wrote:
I'm actually not invested in the welfare of ls, nor do I find something that has no bearing on me offensive. That may have come off as more vitriolic than I intended, but $500 is a lot of cash where I'm from and considering his contentious invitation I'm surprised that he didn't do his best to redeem it. Of course a weekend of competitive SC2 for $500 might be hard bargain and I might be wrong. Even if it is not - even if what LS did is deplorable and there is no way to justify it - I'm the last person interested in doing anything about it. But considering that I actually work weeks for that kind of cash, I'm sure you can see how I find it pretty disgusting.
If someone offered you 500 bucks for playing a weeekend of starcraft are you saying you wouldn't take it? Because that would be silly. No ... I'm saying the opposite. I'd play the entire weekend on a trampoline with a migraine for half that. So.. it is ok for you to do it, but not for someone else?
It would be ok for me to do it but only if I don't skip out on a third of my matches whilst playing with a migraine on a trampoline.
Conversely, it would be okay for someone else to do it but only if they don't forfeit a third of their matches. They may, however, forfeit the migraine and trampoline business.
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On May 30 2012 03:47 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 03:46 Neelia wrote:On May 30 2012 03:45 yeint wrote:On May 30 2012 01:47 SeinGalton wrote:On May 30 2012 00:56 Angel_ wrote:On May 30 2012 00:50 yeint wrote:On May 29 2012 21:27 SeinGalton wrote:Actually thought Day's response was a little wierd: "Day[9], some people are saying you're only doing this for the money and that you're disingenuous." "No, I work really hard." Stephano actually gave Day the correct answer at the LAN: "Stupid question." On May 29 2012 08:46 Duravi wrote:
Don't forget, he still got $500 even for bombing out. So we can confirm that LS lacked the decency to also forfeit his last place prize money? I was hoping this wasn't the case, because if it is ... well that would be disgusting behaviour. Are you actually being serious? yes, he is actually being serious. Welcome to the burn-everyone-at-the-stake members of the community that don't actually think about things in any sort of realistic "real-world" way that are really actually offended over anything they can be. Hopefully a reddit thread won't get made about it so there's a chance LS will still be allowed to try to qualify in the future. Then again he's not on a team to kick him, doesn't have sponsors to boot him, and Gom probably doesn't give a shit about enraged community (like most sponsors and tournaments really should given our community). I'm actually not invested in the welfare of ls, nor do I find something that has no bearing on me offensive. That may have come off as more vitriolic than I intended, but $500 is a lot of cash where I'm from and considering his contentious invitation I'm surprised that he didn't do his best to redeem it. Of course a weekend of competitive SC2 for $500 might be hard bargain and I might be wrong. Even if it is not - even if what LS did is deplorable and there is no way to justify it - I'm the last person interested in doing anything about it. But considering that I actually work weeks for that kind of cash, I'm sure you can see how I find it pretty disgusting. Do you not understand how purchasing power parity works? $500 is not a massive amount of money in the US, because it buys far less goods/services than it would in SA. It might take you weeks to earn $500, but there are parts of the world where people need to work for months for that kind of money. And contrariwise there are places where $500 won't even pay a week's rent in a modest apartment. At any rate, Lastshadow did exactly what he was supposed to do - he competed and tried to win. So he wasn't the best invite, who gives a shit? There have been questionable invites to many invitationals and no one lost their shit over it. But apparently a certain subset of the Starcraft community is so addicted to Internet drama they just can't pass up an opportunity to use this incredibly trivial non-issue to crucify Day9, as some sort of amazing act of iconoclasm. Anyone who doesn't respect Day9 for the work he's done over years and years for this game is a drooling retard. He'd literally have to pull some sort of Gus Ledesma crap to deserve scorn from anyone. Forfeiting 1/3 of his matches = competing? Okay.. Forfeiting one out of his three matches, because he was sick and had no chance to improve his standing even if he won.
Completely disagree with this. Quitting like that underminds the sport.
First you have the fans that are watching this tournament that get cheated out of a series plus LS has fans that wanted to see him play.
Next you have the other players at the tourney. Now by the way the described the tie braker rules technically if LS 2-0'd Parting then even though parting took the series with ret it would have still went down to a tie braker as per how they described the rules.
Then you have the tournament managers who invited this guy to play in a pretty big show and he decides after he can't win that he wants to quit. I would be a little ticked off at that if I were running the show because I could have gave the spot to someone who would care enough to finish.
Last and probably most important are the players who didn't get an invite. I bet there are hundreds of players who would have done anything to get that invite and even if they didn't win at least get their name out their and prove to people that they can compete.
Quitting in sports is just bad business and if we start condoning that kind of action then we are just helping in lessening the legitimacy of SC2 as an E-sport. Just think of it from an outsiders perspective. You tune in to Red Bull Battlegrounds to see what all the hype is with SC2 and E-sports. Supposedly 16 of the best SC2 players and half way through someone who is supposedly one of the best players, supposedly a professional, just quit without finishing his matches. Its just about the worst image you can have as a fledgling sport.
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On May 30 2012 06:13 yeint wrote:
I gave you a rather facetious lesson on economics because you seemed genuinely angry that LS undeservedy got some ungodly amount of money. $500 is not an ungodly amount of money in the US, and if it is elsewhere in the world (it actually is for some people in my part of the world, too), that's completely irrelevant. If it was $50, would you be equally shocked over how he "despicably" didn't refuse his last place prize money?
The reason I brought up Day9 is because this whole argument is over LS getting there because of the "unfair" and supposedly nepotistic influence of Day9, who is one of the organizers. Or do you presume to tell me that you are angry at any random player who does badly at a tournament?
By the way, as to our snarky economics discussion, I'm quite curious as to why you're talking about exchange rates. Exchange rates have nothing to do with purchasing power. Whether we're talking about $500 or R4171.4 (yay google!), it buys exactly the same amount of goods and services in a given country.
The funny part is that LS realistically deserved more than $500. For all the bellyaching over him, all the idiots raising a ruckus because of the invite were actually a massive promotional tool for the event. I know I heard about it initially in a (now closed) thread where people were whining about it. That's $500 well spent, even though I don't for a moment think this was some sort of intentional marketing move.
Asking you if you were serious was a rhetorical question, by the way. I think your original statement, that a player should refuse a last place prize because he didn't win a match, is absolutely preposterous.
Now, I tried to give you an ultimatum in my last post: either treat me like an intelligent human being, or leave it at that. But now you come back with this, and I can't help but feel insulted once again. For instance, your last sentence: I absolutely agree with all of it except that that is not my original statement. I said I find it disgusting that a player should forfeit a third of his matches and still walk away with all of the prize money. And I don't see what is preposterous about that sentiment, because if it were me I would forfeit all of it. It's not like it's an ungodly amount of money, is it?
I think that was a better rhetorical question than yours - I feel yours definitely warrants a response. Stop attacking me with strawman arguments, they're insulting and I don't like them either.
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On May 30 2012 06:23 takingbackoj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 03:47 yeint wrote:On May 30 2012 03:46 Neelia wrote:On May 30 2012 03:45 yeint wrote:On May 30 2012 01:47 SeinGalton wrote:On May 30 2012 00:56 Angel_ wrote:On May 30 2012 00:50 yeint wrote:On May 29 2012 21:27 SeinGalton wrote:Actually thought Day's response was a little wierd: "Day[9], some people are saying you're only doing this for the money and that you're disingenuous." "No, I work really hard." Stephano actually gave Day the correct answer at the LAN: "Stupid question." On May 29 2012 08:46 Duravi wrote:
Don't forget, he still got $500 even for bombing out. So we can confirm that LS lacked the decency to also forfeit his last place prize money? I was hoping this wasn't the case, because if it is ... well that would be disgusting behaviour. Are you actually being serious? yes, he is actually being serious. Welcome to the burn-everyone-at-the-stake members of the community that don't actually think about things in any sort of realistic "real-world" way that are really actually offended over anything they can be. Hopefully a reddit thread won't get made about it so there's a chance LS will still be allowed to try to qualify in the future. Then again he's not on a team to kick him, doesn't have sponsors to boot him, and Gom probably doesn't give a shit about enraged community (like most sponsors and tournaments really should given our community). I'm actually not invested in the welfare of ls, nor do I find something that has no bearing on me offensive. That may have come off as more vitriolic than I intended, but $500 is a lot of cash where I'm from and considering his contentious invitation I'm surprised that he didn't do his best to redeem it. Of course a weekend of competitive SC2 for $500 might be hard bargain and I might be wrong. Even if it is not - even if what LS did is deplorable and there is no way to justify it - I'm the last person interested in doing anything about it. But considering that I actually work weeks for that kind of cash, I'm sure you can see how I find it pretty disgusting. Do you not understand how purchasing power parity works? $500 is not a massive amount of money in the US, because it buys far less goods/services than it would in SA. It might take you weeks to earn $500, but there are parts of the world where people need to work for months for that kind of money. And contrariwise there are places where $500 won't even pay a week's rent in a modest apartment. At any rate, Lastshadow did exactly what he was supposed to do - he competed and tried to win. So he wasn't the best invite, who gives a shit? There have been questionable invites to many invitationals and no one lost their shit over it. But apparently a certain subset of the Starcraft community is so addicted to Internet drama they just can't pass up an opportunity to use this incredibly trivial non-issue to crucify Day9, as some sort of amazing act of iconoclasm. Anyone who doesn't respect Day9 for the work he's done over years and years for this game is a drooling retard. He'd literally have to pull some sort of Gus Ledesma crap to deserve scorn from anyone. Forfeiting 1/3 of his matches = competing? Okay.. Forfeiting one out of his three matches, because he was sick and had no chance to improve his standing even if he won. Completely disagree with this. Quitting like that underminds the sport. First you have the fans that are watching this tournament that get cheated out of a series plus LS has fans that wanted to see him play. Next you have the other players at the tourney. Now by the way the described the tie braker rules technically if LS 2-0'd Parting then even though parting took the series with ret it would have still went down to a tie braker as per how they described the rules. Then you have the tournament managers who invited this guy to play in a pretty big show and he decides after he can't win that he wants to quit. I would be a little ticked off at that if I were running the show because I could have gave the spot to someone who would care enough to finish. Last and probably most important are the players who didn't get an invite. I bet there are hundreds of players who would have done anything to get that invite and even if they didn't win at least get their name out their and prove to people that they can compete. Quitting in sports is just bad business and if we start condoning that kind of action then we are just helping in lessening the legitimacy of SC2 as an E-sport. Just think of it from an outsiders perspective. You tune in to Red Bull Battlegrounds to see what all the hype is with SC2 and E-sports. Supposedly 16 of the best SC2 players and half way through someone who is supposedly one of the best players, supposedly a professional, just quit without finishing his matches. Its just about the worst image you can have as a fledgling sport.
I think you've completely forgot the fact that the redbull lan was horribely delayed, so they basically had no time and didn't need more matches, in fact quite the opposite. To then skip a match that doesn't make a difference for anyone in the tourny and a sick player prefers to skip makes perfect sense.
If the match had mattered for anyone, I think it would have been played, if the redbull lan wasn't delayed so that skipping the match would've added to down time instead of simply making it easier for them to finish somewhat in time, it might have been played aswell.
If both of these reasons was in fact part in why the match was skipped, then I think there is no reason to complain at all. If it wasn't, then I still don't think there is to much reason to complain, lastshadow is not as good as parting on his good days, and that wasn't one of his good days (I watch his stream quite a lot), so the only thing we missed most likely, was another smashing doing no good for anyone.
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On May 30 2012 07:09 Theovide wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 06:23 takingbackoj wrote:On May 30 2012 03:47 yeint wrote:On May 30 2012 03:46 Neelia wrote:On May 30 2012 03:45 yeint wrote:On May 30 2012 01:47 SeinGalton wrote:On May 30 2012 00:56 Angel_ wrote:On May 30 2012 00:50 yeint wrote:On May 29 2012 21:27 SeinGalton wrote:Actually thought Day's response was a little wierd: "Day[9], some people are saying you're only doing this for the money and that you're disingenuous." "No, I work really hard." Stephano actually gave Day the correct answer at the LAN: "Stupid question." On May 29 2012 08:46 Duravi wrote:
Don't forget, he still got $500 even for bombing out. So we can confirm that LS lacked the decency to also forfeit his last place prize money? I was hoping this wasn't the case, because if it is ... well that would be disgusting behaviour. Are you actually being serious? yes, he is actually being serious. Welcome to the burn-everyone-at-the-stake members of the community that don't actually think about things in any sort of realistic "real-world" way that are really actually offended over anything they can be. Hopefully a reddit thread won't get made about it so there's a chance LS will still be allowed to try to qualify in the future. Then again he's not on a team to kick him, doesn't have sponsors to boot him, and Gom probably doesn't give a shit about enraged community (like most sponsors and tournaments really should given our community). I'm actually not invested in the welfare of ls, nor do I find something that has no bearing on me offensive. That may have come off as more vitriolic than I intended, but $500 is a lot of cash where I'm from and considering his contentious invitation I'm surprised that he didn't do his best to redeem it. Of course a weekend of competitive SC2 for $500 might be hard bargain and I might be wrong. Even if it is not - even if what LS did is deplorable and there is no way to justify it - I'm the last person interested in doing anything about it. But considering that I actually work weeks for that kind of cash, I'm sure you can see how I find it pretty disgusting. Do you not understand how purchasing power parity works? $500 is not a massive amount of money in the US, because it buys far less goods/services than it would in SA. It might take you weeks to earn $500, but there are parts of the world where people need to work for months for that kind of money. And contrariwise there are places where $500 won't even pay a week's rent in a modest apartment. At any rate, Lastshadow did exactly what he was supposed to do - he competed and tried to win. So he wasn't the best invite, who gives a shit? There have been questionable invites to many invitationals and no one lost their shit over it. But apparently a certain subset of the Starcraft community is so addicted to Internet drama they just can't pass up an opportunity to use this incredibly trivial non-issue to crucify Day9, as some sort of amazing act of iconoclasm. Anyone who doesn't respect Day9 for the work he's done over years and years for this game is a drooling retard. He'd literally have to pull some sort of Gus Ledesma crap to deserve scorn from anyone. Forfeiting 1/3 of his matches = competing? Okay.. Forfeiting one out of his three matches, because he was sick and had no chance to improve his standing even if he won. Completely disagree with this. Quitting like that underminds the sport. First you have the fans that are watching this tournament that get cheated out of a series plus LS has fans that wanted to see him play. Next you have the other players at the tourney. Now by the way the described the tie braker rules technically if LS 2-0'd Parting then even though parting took the series with ret it would have still went down to a tie braker as per how they described the rules. Then you have the tournament managers who invited this guy to play in a pretty big show and he decides after he can't win that he wants to quit. I would be a little ticked off at that if I were running the show because I could have gave the spot to someone who would care enough to finish. Last and probably most important are the players who didn't get an invite. I bet there are hundreds of players who would have done anything to get that invite and even if they didn't win at least get their name out their and prove to people that they can compete. Quitting in sports is just bad business and if we start condoning that kind of action then we are just helping in lessening the legitimacy of SC2 as an E-sport. Just think of it from an outsiders perspective. You tune in to Red Bull Battlegrounds to see what all the hype is with SC2 and E-sports. Supposedly 16 of the best SC2 players and half way through someone who is supposedly one of the best players, supposedly a professional, just quit without finishing his matches. Its just about the worst image you can have as a fledgling sport. I think you've completely forgot the fact that the redbull lan was horribely delayed, so they basically had no time and didn't need more matches, in fact quite the opposite. To then skip a match that doesn't make a difference for anyone in the tourny and a sick player prefers to skip makes perfect sense. If the match had mattered for anyone, I think it would have been played, if the redbull lan wasn't delayed so that skipping the match would've added to down time instead of simply making it easier for them to finish somewhat in time, it might have been played aswell. If both of these reasons was in fact part in why the match was skipped, then I think there is no reason to complain at all. If it wasn't, then I still don't think there is to much reason to complain, lastshadow is not as good as parting on his good days, and that wasn't one of his good days (I watch his stream quite a lot), so the only thing we missed most likely, was another smashing doing no good for anyone.
I was aware they were short on time but I did not know that this may have contributed to the decision. Would not Ret's position have been influenced by the result, had ls won the game? Anycase, if the match was canceled because the organizers preferred it so then there's nothing to fault here, and ls fully deserves his $500 instead of only partially.
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On May 30 2012 06:14 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 05:56 Apollo_Shards wrote:On May 30 2012 03:45 yeint wrote:On May 30 2012 01:47 SeinGalton wrote:On May 30 2012 00:56 Angel_ wrote:On May 30 2012 00:50 yeint wrote:On May 29 2012 21:27 SeinGalton wrote:Actually thought Day's response was a little wierd: "Day[9], some people are saying you're only doing this for the money and that you're disingenuous." "No, I work really hard." Stephano actually gave Day the correct answer at the LAN: "Stupid question." On May 29 2012 08:46 Duravi wrote:
Don't forget, he still got $500 even for bombing out. So we can confirm that LS lacked the decency to also forfeit his last place prize money? I was hoping this wasn't the case, because if it is ... well that would be disgusting behaviour. Are you actually being serious? yes, he is actually being serious. Welcome to the burn-everyone-at-the-stake members of the community that don't actually think about things in any sort of realistic "real-world" way that are really actually offended over anything they can be. Hopefully a reddit thread won't get made about it so there's a chance LS will still be allowed to try to qualify in the future. Then again he's not on a team to kick him, doesn't have sponsors to boot him, and Gom probably doesn't give a shit about enraged community (like most sponsors and tournaments really should given our community). I'm actually not invested in the welfare of ls, nor do I find something that has no bearing on me offensive. That may have come off as more vitriolic than I intended, but $500 is a lot of cash where I'm from and considering his contentious invitation I'm surprised that he didn't do his best to redeem it. Of course a weekend of competitive SC2 for $500 might be hard bargain and I might be wrong. Even if it is not - even if what LS did is deplorable and there is no way to justify it - I'm the last person interested in doing anything about it. But considering that I actually work weeks for that kind of cash, I'm sure you can see how I find it pretty disgusting. Do you not understand how purchasing power parity works? $500 is not a massive amount of money in the US, because it buys far less goods/services than it would in SA. It might take you weeks to earn $500, but there are parts of the world where people need to work for months for that kind of money. And contrariwise there are places where $500 won't even pay a week's rent in a modest apartment. At any rate, Lastshadow did exactly what he was supposed to do - he competed and tried to win. So he wasn't the best invite, who gives a shit? There have been questionable invites to many invitationals and no one lost their shit over it. But apparently a certain subset of the Starcraft community is so addicted to Internet drama they just can't pass up an opportunity to use this incredibly trivial non-issue to crucify Day9, as some sort of amazing act of iconoclasm. Anyone who doesn't respect Day9 for the work he's done over years and years for this game is a drooling retard. He'd literally have to pull some sort of Gus Ledesma crap to deserve scorn from anyone. As a drooling retard, I would like to remind you of this. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145494¤tpage=2279#45577 There's a massive difference between going to an invitational and accepting a freebie seed to a tournament others have to qualify for, don't you think?
No because
1. He skipped out on the GSL qualifiers which he constantly says that is the only tournament that matters
2. He was not guaranteed a top 4 finish (he didnt say that freebies dont count)
3. He calls invites "silly"
4. He took someone else's spot potentially and he says that doing that in the GSL is "that's a waste of money and if a team/sponsor was supporting me I wouldn't want to waste their money when people like MVP, Nestea, MMA"
and
"That's so morally fucked up I can't even imagine why someone would aim to knowingly steal a seed from a Korean that probably deserves it more than you.".
After that post full of massive contradictions Im intrigued on how you will be able to argue yourself out of this one.
And dont try to say Redbull was a "lesser" or "less serious tournament" so it doesnt matter, because with those players and prize pool, it wasnt.
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On May 30 2012 03:47 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 03:46 Neelia wrote:On May 30 2012 03:45 yeint wrote:On May 30 2012 01:47 SeinGalton wrote:On May 30 2012 00:56 Angel_ wrote:On May 30 2012 00:50 yeint wrote:On May 29 2012 21:27 SeinGalton wrote:Actually thought Day's response was a little wierd: "Day[9], some people are saying you're only doing this for the money and that you're disingenuous." "No, I work really hard." Stephano actually gave Day the correct answer at the LAN: "Stupid question." On May 29 2012 08:46 Duravi wrote:
Don't forget, he still got $500 even for bombing out. So we can confirm that LS lacked the decency to also forfeit his last place prize money? I was hoping this wasn't the case, because if it is ... well that would be disgusting behaviour. Are you actually being serious? yes, he is actually being serious. Welcome to the burn-everyone-at-the-stake members of the community that don't actually think about things in any sort of realistic "real-world" way that are really actually offended over anything they can be. Hopefully a reddit thread won't get made about it so there's a chance LS will still be allowed to try to qualify in the future. Then again he's not on a team to kick him, doesn't have sponsors to boot him, and Gom probably doesn't give a shit about enraged community (like most sponsors and tournaments really should given our community). I'm actually not invested in the welfare of ls, nor do I find something that has no bearing on me offensive. That may have come off as more vitriolic than I intended, but $500 is a lot of cash where I'm from and considering his contentious invitation I'm surprised that he didn't do his best to redeem it. Of course a weekend of competitive SC2 for $500 might be hard bargain and I might be wrong. Even if it is not - even if what LS did is deplorable and there is no way to justify it - I'm the last person interested in doing anything about it. But considering that I actually work weeks for that kind of cash, I'm sure you can see how I find it pretty disgusting. Do you not understand how purchasing power parity works? $500 is not a massive amount of money in the US, because it buys far less goods/services than it would in SA. It might take you weeks to earn $500, but there are parts of the world where people need to work for months for that kind of money. And contrariwise there are places where $500 won't even pay a week's rent in a modest apartment. At any rate, Lastshadow did exactly what he was supposed to do - he competed and tried to win. So he wasn't the best invite, who gives a shit? There have been questionable invites to many invitationals and no one lost their shit over it. But apparently a certain subset of the Starcraft community is so addicted to Internet drama they just can't pass up an opportunity to use this incredibly trivial non-issue to crucify Day9, as some sort of amazing act of iconoclasm. Anyone who doesn't respect Day9 for the work he's done over years and years for this game is a drooling retard. He'd literally have to pull some sort of Gus Ledesma crap to deserve scorn from anyone. Forfeiting 1/3 of his matches = competing? Okay.. Forfeiting one out of his three matches, because he was sick and had no chance to improve his standing even if he won.
At least Naniwa probe rushed
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On May 30 2012 07:09 Theovide wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 06:23 takingbackoj wrote:On May 30 2012 03:47 yeint wrote:On May 30 2012 03:46 Neelia wrote:On May 30 2012 03:45 yeint wrote:On May 30 2012 01:47 SeinGalton wrote:On May 30 2012 00:56 Angel_ wrote:On May 30 2012 00:50 yeint wrote:On May 29 2012 21:27 SeinGalton wrote:Actually thought Day's response was a little wierd: "Day[9], some people are saying you're only doing this for the money and that you're disingenuous." "No, I work really hard." Stephano actually gave Day the correct answer at the LAN: "Stupid question." On May 29 2012 08:46 Duravi wrote:
Don't forget, he still got $500 even for bombing out. So we can confirm that LS lacked the decency to also forfeit his last place prize money? I was hoping this wasn't the case, because if it is ... well that would be disgusting behaviour. Are you actually being serious? yes, he is actually being serious. Welcome to the burn-everyone-at-the-stake members of the community that don't actually think about things in any sort of realistic "real-world" way that are really actually offended over anything they can be. Hopefully a reddit thread won't get made about it so there's a chance LS will still be allowed to try to qualify in the future. Then again he's not on a team to kick him, doesn't have sponsors to boot him, and Gom probably doesn't give a shit about enraged community (like most sponsors and tournaments really should given our community). I'm actually not invested in the welfare of ls, nor do I find something that has no bearing on me offensive. That may have come off as more vitriolic than I intended, but $500 is a lot of cash where I'm from and considering his contentious invitation I'm surprised that he didn't do his best to redeem it. Of course a weekend of competitive SC2 for $500 might be hard bargain and I might be wrong. Even if it is not - even if what LS did is deplorable and there is no way to justify it - I'm the last person interested in doing anything about it. But considering that I actually work weeks for that kind of cash, I'm sure you can see how I find it pretty disgusting. Do you not understand how purchasing power parity works? $500 is not a massive amount of money in the US, because it buys far less goods/services than it would in SA. It might take you weeks to earn $500, but there are parts of the world where people need to work for months for that kind of money. And contrariwise there are places where $500 won't even pay a week's rent in a modest apartment. At any rate, Lastshadow did exactly what he was supposed to do - he competed and tried to win. So he wasn't the best invite, who gives a shit? There have been questionable invites to many invitationals and no one lost their shit over it. But apparently a certain subset of the Starcraft community is so addicted to Internet drama they just can't pass up an opportunity to use this incredibly trivial non-issue to crucify Day9, as some sort of amazing act of iconoclasm. Anyone who doesn't respect Day9 for the work he's done over years and years for this game is a drooling retard. He'd literally have to pull some sort of Gus Ledesma crap to deserve scorn from anyone. Forfeiting 1/3 of his matches = competing? Okay.. Forfeiting one out of his three matches, because he was sick and had no chance to improve his standing even if he won. Completely disagree with this. Quitting like that underminds the sport. First you have the fans that are watching this tournament that get cheated out of a series plus LS has fans that wanted to see him play. Next you have the other players at the tourney. Now by the way the described the tie braker rules technically if LS 2-0'd Parting then even though parting took the series with ret it would have still went down to a tie braker as per how they described the rules. Then you have the tournament managers who invited this guy to play in a pretty big show and he decides after he can't win that he wants to quit. I would be a little ticked off at that if I were running the show because I could have gave the spot to someone who would care enough to finish. Last and probably most important are the players who didn't get an invite. I bet there are hundreds of players who would have done anything to get that invite and even if they didn't win at least get their name out their and prove to people that they can compete. Quitting in sports is just bad business and if we start condoning that kind of action then we are just helping in lessening the legitimacy of SC2 as an E-sport. Just think of it from an outsiders perspective. You tune in to Red Bull Battlegrounds to see what all the hype is with SC2 and E-sports. Supposedly 16 of the best SC2 players and half way through someone who is supposedly one of the best players, supposedly a professional, just quit without finishing his matches. Its just about the worst image you can have as a fledgling sport. I think you've completely forgot the fact that the redbull lan was horribely delayed, so they basically had no time and didn't need more matches, in fact quite the opposite. To then skip a match that doesn't make a difference for anyone in the tourny and a sick player prefers to skip makes perfect sense. If the match had mattered for anyone, I think it would have been played, if the redbull lan wasn't delayed so that skipping the match would've added to down time instead of simply making it easier for them to finish somewhat in time, it might have been played aswell. If both of these reasons was in fact part in why the match was skipped, then I think there is no reason to complain at all. If it wasn't, then I still don't think there is to much reason to complain, lastshadow is not as good as parting on his good days, and that wasn't one of his good days (I watch his stream quite a lot), so the only thing we missed most likely, was another smashing doing no good for anyone.
I get what you're saying but if that is true then do you think that was a good way for Redbull and its coordinators to handle a situation where they are running out of time by skipping matches that don't matter? That just seems really unprofessional and I doubt that a tournament would take that route.
Both Ret and Parting had 1 series win and 1 series loss. LS and Parting should have been playing at the same time as Ret and Squirtle just like every other group so the forfeit happened before Ret lost the series to squirtle which means there was no way that anyone knew that the match wouldn't mean anything unless they assumed ret would lose to squirtle and LS would lose to parting. It doesn't make sense.
Ya its unlikely that LS would ever beat parting but you have to play it out.
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On May 30 2012 04:02 Felnarion wrote:
Not sure why Day9's casting takes so much shit too. I think it's just becoming a popular thing to do.
A couple reasons, I think. First and most importantly, it's become somewhat ok to do so recently. It wasn't that long ago that any criticism of the guy would get you roundly abused by his fans. That's fine, nothing wrong with people defending their favorites, but Day was basically bulletproof. And then people like Cloud and others made it known that maybe the dude isn't all sunshine and daisies, and the people who've thought for a while that he's a bit overrated had someone to give them cover. It's ok to criticize Day now, because Cloud did it and iNcontroL did it and IdrA did it, so you can as well. You know you're not in a minority of one anymore.
Second, he's clearly changing his style. Watch a Brood War daily, then watch an early SC2 daily, and then watch a more recent one. There's a clear shift away from serious, lecture-style instruction towards a more loose, camera-on-my-face-while-I-tell-a-story style. Again, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but it's undeniable.
Third, I always remember a moment in the Chill/CombatEx showmatch series, in which Day criticizes something Chill does and says, "But what do I know? I'm just an A-level Zerg!" And it's totally true. Day was an A-level Zerg, one of the great foreign players with a fantastic analytical mind. But in Starcraft 2... he's not an A-level player anymore. He's not a player at all, really; I mean, we know he plays the game, and we know he's good at it and knows things. But the highest level of accomplishment he has in Starcraft 2 is being GM with three races. And that's a fantastic achievement, for you and me. But JP is Masters with Random, and if you brought him up as an example of a great analytical caster (sorry JP!) you'd get laughed off the forum. Does one level of ladder rank really make that much difference?
So the popularity thing is important, but there are also legitimate points to make.
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EPT
