EPTMakes no sense to me.
Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 2177
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eot
146 Posts
Makes no sense to me. | ||
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obsidia
122 Posts
On April 24 2012 01:40 epik640x wrote: Can't blame tasteless for not playing SC2 anymore, it's not exactly fun like BW was. I can blame him for attempting to be a top-tier caster at the most prestigious sc2 tournements and not even actively play the game.... it would be idiotic to think otherwise | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On April 24 2012 02:27 eot wrote: So now you're a fanboy if you prefered an event with huge production values compared to one that was practically a basement LAN? Makes no sense to me. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense because it means you're focusing on superficial qualities (production and entertainment value) rather than the fundamental qualities of a tournament (players, games). Given that it's usually offensive to use the term fanboy and it's now how I would have put it, but it is what it is. | ||
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rfoster
United States1005 Posts
Probably not, so why does it really matter which one was better. I watched both, and thought they were both awesome events. Just watch the one you like rather than bashing the other one. | ||
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Champloo
Germany1850 Posts
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Lt.Roosevelt
Sweden84 Posts
To me all I see happening is that they both "steal" viewers from each other (sure a lot of people watch both, but still) and we get one or two events that just get a bit lackluster in terms of top players, like what happened with DH this time. EDIT: For the record I think both events were great, it was a great SC2 weekend imo. However I would have loved 2 great SC2 weekends and I think it would have just been for the better in terms of quality of players and games too. | ||
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Rasun
United States787 Posts
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MarcH
United Kingdom362 Posts
On April 24 2012 02:17 Plansix wrote: Whoa, wait, I missed that last part. When did SaSe throw down on a 12 year old? He played a 12 y/o masters zerg and did daft builds etc like mass carrier and build about 12 manner nexi across the middle of the map not exactly bullying but was awkward to watch | ||
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Animzor
Sweden2154 Posts
On April 24 2012 02:17 Plansix wrote: Whoa, wait, I missed that last part. When did SaSe throw down on a 12 year old? He never did, some people just overreact to everything because they like drama. SaSe built a bunch of manner nexuses in a game, no big deal. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 24 2012 02:38 MarcH wrote: He played a 12 y/o masters zerg and did daft builds etc like mass carrier and build about 12 manner nexi across the middle of the map not exactly bullying but was awkward to watch That sounds WAY worse than anything I saw on MLG on the first day. I am glad I missed it, since I have limited time to watch SC2. If I turn it on, I do not want to see anything close to that, so MLG was my choice for the weekend. | ||
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Canucklehead
Canada5074 Posts
On April 24 2012 02:38 MarcH wrote: He played a 12 y/o masters zerg and did daft builds etc like mass carrier and build about 12 manner nexi across the middle of the map not exactly bullying but was awkward to watch Haha, my friend told me about that. The best part was reading the thread where everyone was saying that was wrong of sase to do, but all the swedish posters came to sase's defense. They were using silly comparisons like people manner mule each other all the time in games. Yeah well those are against other pro-gamers and not 12 year old boys. The worst was sase tried to put all the blame on the casters by saying they were painting a bad picture, when he was the one humiliating a 12 year old on stream. | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
On April 24 2012 02:41 Plansix wrote: That sounds WAY worse than anything I saw on MLG on the first day. I am glad I missed it, since I have limited time to watch SC2. If I turn it on, I do not want to see anything close to that, so MLG was my choice for the weekend. Dude, you had 8 players that could be a RO8 at GSL. It's like you would compare that to the open bracket of MLG, or any other event. Jeesh. | ||
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zefreak
United States2731 Posts
On April 23 2012 22:38 bbm wrote: Agreed. At least with the first two sentences, before you turned into a collosal dick. The games were better, the first person was great, as was the analyst discussion cool. But that's about it. The atmosphere was muted and storylines almost non-existant (until the finals obv). During the FIFA 2002 world cup, two storylines riveted me. One was my home country, the other was that of Senegal. A team that had never qualified before, who beat reigning champions France in their first match, then tied with Denmark and Uraguay to come second in their group, and then beat Sweden in the Ro16. Underdogs and home pride. It makes a big difference to the enjoyment you can get out of a tournament. Someone to root for, someone to cheer for. DRG's my favourite player out of the 8 there and I was cheering for him in this tournament, but I'd always cheer for demuslim or bling over him. I WANT an upset, whether it's a big one like scarlett or a relatively lesser one (not taking away from them but they're already great) like Ret > Genius or Nerchio > Hyun. There's continual complaints about "useless games", especially since Naniwa's blizz cup scandal. MLG doing round robin, fine, but playing all 3 games even if a winner is already decided? IMO round robin lacks suspense, at least before it gets to the last few matches, and then it can be very confusing (such as, I believe, drg v parting being eliminated was decided after drg had won his last series, but not before his last game? wat). I have nothing invested in those games. I'm hesitant to complain too much about round robin, since having more games played with less players is only a good thing though. DH wasn't a perfect event (whole first day was pretty retarded), but it was a bigger one, a more hyped one, and arguably a better one. tl;dr: The games were better, the actual event wasn't. Lack of storylines and suspense lead to me feeling less invested in the results of the games. If I was watching the vods I'd much prefer the MLG ones, but I wasn't. I was watching entire tournaments. edit: Trimmed it up a bit because I rambled like fuck. Do you guys not even bother reading Tyler's post? You say that he is being condescending and that everyone is as big a fan of SC2 as he is. And then you ramble off a list of things that make Dreamhack the better tournament, none of which have anything to do with SC2. 1.Production - awesome for showing your family that e-sports is big and professional and legitimate. Not actually very important to people that don't have anything to prove. 2. Storyline - important to most people, considering that most people's appreciation of high level starcraft is non-existent. Storylines are what I tell my friends who don't play the game to get them hyped and interested. For someone with Tyler's understanding of the game, the foreigner/korean storyline is of minimal importance. It's all flash and filler. Starcraft is almost peripheral to people that care about storyline as extremely important. It could be any competition with an underdog story and you guys would lap it up. 3. Crowd/audience/cheering - Another distraction, same as above. All of these things do add to an experience that most people will enjoy, there is no doubt about that. My point is not that these things are bad or anything of the sort. My point is that some people are fans of the game, while others are fans of the drama, emotion and spectacle. Sure, they probably like the game a bit but they are more drawn towards the players, personalities and underdog storylines. Some people are passionate about the game itself, and want to see the highest level of play without distractions. Accept that it is the case. It's not 'wrong' to enjoy the peripheral aspects of competitive starcraft. But accept it for what it is. | ||
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Asymmetric
Scotland1309 Posts
I feel the MLG arena is stuck in this awkward place were they don't achieve the atmosphere and magnitude of an event like Dreamhack or a traditional MLG nor do they have the depth of competition, intensity or prestige of the GSL. Furthermore the community's enthusiasm for the event is blatantly at an all time low however way you wish to spin it, the live-report thread for the big final day didn't even get past 100 pages. Being behind a pay-wall has clearly severely limited the audience but I doubt this is the only factor, people are suffering from tournament fatigue. It was only last month since last the MLG and IPL events, Dreamhack was running concurrently and if your after the best of the best then GSL is running 5 days a week. And hell, if all you really want is to watch MarineKing crush nerds faces you can just watch his stream every other day. At best the MLG arena's fall into an unease position sitting alongside GSL "special events" like the Arena of Legends, Team Ace Invitational or King of Kongs. However I feel where the GSL showed some modicum of restraint on how many of these special events take place, MLG is litterally going to throw one at us every other month in an already tournament saturated climate risking making the arena, something that should be a spectacle, become mundane and bland. | ||
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Ravnemesteren
224 Posts
On April 24 2012 01:38 Liquid`NonY wrote: Yeah I have no problem with people saying what they like to watch. I don't like people saying that one event is better than another when each event had different strengths. I don't like people proclaiming that one type of event is the way all events should be. Event organizers are clearly going for different things and appeasing different crowds. It's true that there is theoretically one formula that is the most popular one. And that just means it's best in the "most viewed" or "most liked" category, but not necessarily best in a bunch of other categories. So if we sought out that formula and only had events according to that formula, it would disappoint a lot of people. Variety is going to win out so people need to get used to there being successful events that they don't prefer (or even enjoy at all). I find it especially ridiculous when DH runs a tournament that is much more like MLG's championship events and yet people make comparisons to MLG's 8 man arena event just because they're on the same weekend. Guess what? Sundance gets it. He's purposely running different kind of content supplemental to the championship events. Inviting 8 players to a business's office that's been converted into a studio with no live audience is pretty much the exact opposite of MLG's normal events and DH's Stockholm Open. So when the DH fanboys start talking a bunch of shit about how good their event was, the people who quite enjoyed and even preferred MLG's event are going to get defensive. People act like it's preposterous to think that MLG's Arena was better and yet according to my personal preferences it's preposterous to think DH's event was better. If everyone could simply support the things they like and be honest about the strengths and weaknesses of events, we could have a much nicer discussion. I'm appalled by people saying DH's event was amazing when its first day was one of the shittiest things I've ever watched. People talking up DH's event as amazing are clearly not being objective and accurately descriptive. You come out against polarized opinions, but in this same post you come with some very, very subjective views yourself. You dislike people for comparing DH to the arena event, but are you sure everyone is comparing it to that, and not all MLG events? And you dislike people for not being objective and accurately descriptive, when leaving out the faults of the first day? Thats weird, I kind of got the impression that the actual event was the stageshow, but I understand if we disagree on that. My personal opinion is that DH aimed for the stageshow to be actual event, while the groups acted as some kind of a qualifier, but that is just me. In the same way I will not fault GSL for not having awesome production the one time they showed the GSL qualifier, but I knew that wasnt the main event, it was just leading up to it. The most objective view I can give on DH doing a better job with production than any MLG event so far, is that it comes far closer to a fully professional TV-event. You could always argue that TV events aren't perfect, but that is another matter. "If everyone could simply support the things they like and be honest about the strengths and weaknesses of events, we could have a much nicer discussion", you say this, but then you shoot yourself in the leg and say this: "its first day was one of the shittiest things I've ever watched". Was that objective or desprictive? You fail in the same way you criticise others for acting. Shitties things you ever watched is hardly descriptive or objective. Give some constructive feedback and you might contribute to this nicer discussion you mention, you are just fanning the flames the way you write. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On April 24 2012 02:49 ceaRshaf wrote: Dude, you had 8 players that could be a RO8 at GSL. It's like you would compare that to the open bracket of MLG, or any other event. Jeesh. I don't see most of the MLG open bracket on stream, if any. If I spend my time watching SC2, I was GSL levels out of the games or as close as they can get. I don't dislike DH or anything, just saying I have limited time. | ||
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Nosferatos
Norway783 Posts
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Uracil
Germany422 Posts
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Chenz
Sweden1197 Posts
On April 24 2012 02:48 Canucklehead wrote: Haha, my friend told me about that. The best part was reading the thread where everyone was saying that was wrong of sase to do, but all the swedish posters came to sase's defense. They were using silly comparisons like people manner mule each other all the time in games. Yeah well those are against other pro-gamers and not 12 year old boys. The worst was sase tried to put all the blame on the casters by saying they were painting a bad picture, when he was the one humiliating a 12 year old on stream. Yup, all Swedish posters certainly came to Sase's defense. Way to generalize. Anyhow, I find it amusing how people want opportunities to bring new blood to the professional Starcraft scene, but when Dreamhack throws an open tournament where everyone starts on equal footing, people complain about the first stages being boring. I guess you can't please anyone. Lastly, both events were great. Stupid fanboy war is stupid. | ||
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
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