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On January 13 2012 03:48 iNcontroL wrote:
torte
If we can make some money for ourselves while doing something great that should be fine.
Additionally we can do cool stuff on the show and increase production value if we aren't doing it out of pocket
It's like you are afraid or something to hear us say we want to get paid for things.. is that really the case?
InControl, lets talk about this cool stuff. What is needed to get you a webcam with a....better zoom? This thing needs to be on voice command or some other sort if hightech interface. Also, an awesome stinger when it goes off, like a gong.(see dramatic chipmunk on youtube for referance)
Also, a running counter for the people Artosis has banned during the lenght of the show, whith stats from the last show. So we can compair how he is improving. These are things we need.
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On January 13 2012 03:48 iNcontroL wrote:
torte
If we can make some money for ourselves while doing something great that should be fine.
Additionally we can do cool stuff on the show and increase production value if we aren't doing it out of pocket
It's like you are afraid or something to hear us say we want to get paid for things.. is that really the case?
What did you guys have in mind to do more with the show? This is genuine interest by the way.
I think you guys are already paid doing a lot of other things, I don't think being paid will really change how the attitude and enjoyment of doing the show will change.
No that's not the case haha.
It was more an inquiry than a skepticism. To reiterate: If they got sponsored, what would they do with the sponsorship money besides get paid? That's your business, I just wanted to ask anyways.
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I mean, the sponsorship would ensure that the show would keep going without fear or harm, but if that was an issue, wouldn't you have just stayed with MLG (It had some drawbacks, but it also ensured a lot of things [I assume]).
edit: I really sound interrogatory, I don't know how else to form the question though -_-
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Well if they get sponsors.. fucking awesome. If not, at least they are still getting publicity and are more valuable for their teams and thus should get better salary. I don't get why anyone would be against them being sponsored unless the sponsor is like a terranmech-foundation which would make Incontrol praise mech in every episode.
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If you want to go back to your roots, all you have to do is have some guys talking about starcraft. Nothing more. That's what I like most about STOG, the simplicity. I'm also interested as to why you guys want a sponsor. Personally, I see no reason to raise production value at all. Webcams are enough. Don't fix what isn't broken.
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Another case where someone talks about "friends" "collaboration" "mutual leave" etc. and you just have to smell something fishy about it. Transparency really is something we will never see in esports -.-
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8748 Posts
On January 13 2012 03:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
Why does SOTG need a sponsor for though?
To do business. What we do does business in two ways: sponsors and subscriptions. We're gonna try to do both. But like JP said, we're not taking anything away. Anything we do for sponsors or for subscriptions would be in addition to everything we've already been doing.
When done right, business benefits everyone. At the very least, it ought to benefit some and not hurt anyone else. For example, ideally if we have a sponsor then these benefits would come about: the sponsor has increased sales, the hosts earn money for their work, the viewers benefit from the increased value of incentivized hosts (higher quality work and higher chance that it doesn't stop).
The anti-business sentiments in the esports community can be quite frustrating. Business doesn't have to screw anyone. Commerce isn't evil. Money can change hands in exchange for services and everyone can be happier for it. Everyone does it all the time but it seems that a lot of people in the community have an irrational exception to that when it comes to esports.
Nothing going on is really stable. SOTG and omg.tv are not stable. MLG, IPL, NASL and GomTV are not stable. No player's career is stable. The only way things really could stabilize is if the community is full of people willing to spend money. Spend money on sponsors' products or (preferably) spend money directly on esports products (stream subscriptions, team apparel, live event tickets, etc). If people don't spend money, there won't be as much good quality content as there could be and things will not last. SC2 has a unique opportunity because its community is generally older and thus is more employed and has more money to spend. An anti-business sentiment is not what we need. If we don't do good business, we won't last. And if we can't ever attempt to do any business because the community moans and groans, then we'll never have a shot at doing good business.
I think everyone ought to honestly reflect on how they spend their money and how much they value the things they buy. For those of you who have been an SC2 fan for a year, can you think about how much money you've spent on entertainment/luxury in the past year and how much of that went into the SC2 scene? Can you then see if that percentage is a fair reflection of how much entertainment you get out of SC2? I think if everyone in the community had an accurate reflection there, then SC2 would be soaring and we wouldn't have a worry in the world about this lasting for a long time and improving the whole way.
P.S. I know this doesn't apply to everyone. I know there is a very large group of people that loves everything that players/commentators/leagues/etc do and they want to support us fairly. You are the reason we have hope!
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didnt you hear tyler? europeans hate business, we only like communism
On January 13 2012 04:12 Kuni wrote:
Another case where someone talks about "friends" "collaboration" "mutual leave" etc. and you just have to smell something fishy about it. Transparency really is something we will never see in esports -.-
esahara gave the exact reason to remove carn and they got shit on ;p
On January 13 2012 04:05 Torte de Lini wrote:
I mean, the sponsorship would ensure that the show would keep going without fear or harm, but if that was an issue, wouldn't you have just stayed with MLG (It had some drawbacks, but it also ensured a lot of things [I assume]).
edit: I really sound interrogatory, I don't know how else to form the question though -_-
i heard a rumor that please and thank you help ;p seriously, even if it sounds stupid it stops you coming across like you hate people.
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8748 Posts
And yes, I understand that people worry that we will act differently and cover different things based on who sponsors us. All I can say is that we will certainly try not to act differently. We'll pick sponsors who are okay with sponsoring as as we are and are okay with not having any say in how we conduct ourselves. In any case, we ought to try.
Esports isn't gonna emerge out of nothing. The world has a finite amount of resources, people have a finite amount of time and money. In order for esports to become a real thing, some tiny fraction of the world has to stop spending some tiny fraction of money on one thing and spend it on esports instead. If that doesn't happen, then our other option is to invent a new revolutionary economic theory that works on the first try. And then after that, our only option is to ride things out as long as possible while the scene declines and eventually dies. Plz no
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I don't know why so many people get all uppity when something like this happens. Hosts want to get paid, they want to add cool new stuff (which costs money), etc. Not everyone who asks for money are TV evangelists or other money grubbing people who are just greedy. Day9 did the same thing on his show and he didn't have to catch nearly as much shit for it because he's day9. The world revolves around money, and the show is just allowing people to "donate" by using this system, it's not that bad. Welcome to the real world.
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On January 13 2012 04:20 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
And yes, I understand that people worry that we will act differently and cover different things based on who sponsors us. All I can say is that we will certainly try not to act differently. We'll pick sponsors who are okay with sponsoring as as we are and are okay with not having any say in how we conduct ourselves. In any case, we ought to try.
Esports isn't gonna emerge out of nothing. The world has a finite amount of resources, people have a finite amount of time and money. In order for esports to become a real thing, some tiny fraction of the world has to stop spending some tiny fraction of money on one thing and spend it on esports instead. If that doesn't happen, then our other option is to invent a new revolutionary economic theory that works on the first try. And then after that, our only option is to ride things out as long as possible while the scene declines and eventually dies. Plz no
I have faith in you guys. Haven't really fucked up yet.
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i heard a rumor that please and thank you help ;p seriously, even if it sounds stupid it stops you coming across like you hate people.
Good idea haha.
I'll definitely try that!
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8748 Posts
On January 13 2012 04:05 Torte de Lini wrote:
I mean, the sponsorship would ensure that the show would keep going without fear or harm, but if that was an issue, wouldn't you have just stayed with MLG (It had some drawbacks, but it also ensured a lot of things [I assume]).
edit: I really sound interrogatory, I don't know how else to form the question though -_-
The things in the statement are not bullshit. MLG is focusing on their competitions now and thinning everything else out. That has been really clear to the whole community. We could have clung on, but it wasn't in everyone's best interests. Also the thing about a league not having its own journalists is also real and good. We should be as independent as possible. I believe Sundance sees the value of having a show like SOTG in the scene for the good of the scene, which in turn is good for MLG. If that means that when MLG does something really fucked up then we call them out on it, I think he's okay with that. He doesn't plan to let MLG fuck up and if it does, then he would want a place like SOTG to go on and apologize and make MLG even stronger the next time.
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i think the disbelief that business is "all good" comes from the fact that every day businesses that publicly "love" the consumers privately shit all over them. i know its a bit of a different situation but how is mlg saying "we love gamers, we are gamers!" oh what race do you play in starcraft? "i play the mariners" different from coke of mcdonalds paying terrible wages and putting stuff linked to cancer in their foods because its cheap?
im not saying mlg is trying to kill people. but after growing up in the real world you can understand people would be sceptical that esports businessmen are all about the community and not about profit margins. at the end of the day money talks, and as more money goes into esports more ruthless businessmen will rise to the top, driving out anyone genuinely interesting in pure community work.
this isnt to say people shouldnt support sotg, but your argument that we need to just throw money at esports else we dont love it enough? or that we should almost blindly support stuff because we can is as unfair as people calling you money grabbers.
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Now that SOTG is separate from MLG again I have no problem a subscription, as long as they are independent it won't change the show drastically.
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On January 13 2012 04:34 turdburgler wrote:
i think the disbelief that business is "all good" comes from the fact that every day businesses that publicly "love" the consumers privately shit all over them. i know its a bit of a different situation but how is mlg saying "we love gamers, we are gamers!" oh what race do you play in starcraft? "i play the mariners" different from coke of mcdonalds paying terrible wages and putting stuff linked to cancer in their foods because its cheap?
im not saying mlg is trying to kill people. but after growing up in the real world you can understand people would be sceptical that esports businessmen are all about the community and not about profit margins. at the end of the day money talks, and as more money goes into esports more ruthless businessmen will rise to the top, driving out anyone genuinely interesting in pure community work.
this isnt to say people shouldnt support sotg, but your argument that we need to just throw money at esports else we dont love it enough? or that we should almost blindly support stuff because we can is as unfair as people calling you money grabbers.
I agree there has been too much of the "support esports" "for esports" sentiment going on and I fucking hate that.
You should spend money/support esports based on your own dispositions.
Support the organizations you like and don't support the ones you think are doing a shitty job.
I bet Tyler would disagree with your assessment of his argument if that's all you got out of it.
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On January 13 2012 03:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
Why does SOTG need a sponsor for though?
Nothing in life is free. The time they're spending on the show providing entertainment to thousands of people could be spent doing something else. Like streaming, practicing, or working on something else that provides an income. I'm sure that these guys love doing the show but they're obviously trying to provide for themselves and their families too. It's important to realize that. Outside of something like a charity event, I can't think of any established entertainer or athlete that performs their craft for free. Somebody's ultimately paying for it. I'll be subscribing and I really hope you guys can find a decent sponsor or two!
My feelings on the time change are a bit mixed though. I take in a grand total of two podcasts per week (SotG and The Vergecast, a technology podcast) and now they're happening at the same time each week. Which one will I watch live and which one will I stream later? 99 problems, man.
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On January 13 2012 04:41 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2012 04:34 turdburgler wrote:
i think the disbelief that business is "all good" comes from the fact that every day businesses that publicly "love" the consumers privately shit all over them. i know its a bit of a different situation but how is mlg saying "we love gamers, we are gamers!" oh what race do you play in starcraft? "i play the mariners" different from coke of mcdonalds paying terrible wages and putting stuff linked to cancer in their foods because its cheap?
im not saying mlg is trying to kill people. but after growing up in the real world you can understand people would be sceptical that esports businessmen are all about the community and not about profit margins. at the end of the day money talks, and as more money goes into esports more ruthless businessmen will rise to the top, driving out anyone genuinely interesting in pure community work.
this isnt to say people shouldnt support sotg, but your argument that we need to just throw money at esports else we dont love it enough? or that we should almost blindly support stuff because we can is as unfair as people calling you money grabbers.
I agree there has been too much of the "support esports" "for esports" sentiment going on and I fucking hate that. You should spend money/support esports based on your own dispositions. Support the organizations you like and don't support the ones you think are doing a shitty job. I bet Tyler would disagree with your assessment of his argument if that's all you got out of it.
its not all i got out of it, but im not gonna argue with the bits i agree with am i ? ;p
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On January 13 2012 04:34 turdburgler wrote:
i think the disbelief that business is "all good" comes from the fact that every day businesses that publicly "love" the consumers privately shit all over them. i know its a bit of a different situation but how is mlg saying "we love gamers, we are gamers!" oh what race do you play in starcraft? "i play the mariners" different from coke of mcdonalds paying terrible wages and putting stuff linked to cancer in their foods because its cheap?
im not saying mlg is trying to kill people. but after growing up in the real world you can understand people would be sceptical that esports businessmen are all about the community and not about profit margins. at the end of the day money talks, and as more money goes into esports more ruthless businessmen will rise to the top, driving out anyone genuinely interesting in pure community work.
this isnt to say people shouldnt support sotg, but your argument that we need to just throw money at esports else we dont love it enough? or that we should almost blindly support stuff because we can is as unfair as people calling you money grabbers.
Of course eSports business men are in it for money. The job of a business is to make money. What Tyler is saying is that trying to make money isn't evil and can benefit all parties. If eSports wants to grow then it needs business.
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Everyone does it all the time but it seems that a lot of people in the community have an irrational exception to that when it comes to esports.
It's closer to people have a rational fear of money-people exerting negative influence over creators. But, realistically, how much money is there to be made sponsoring sotg?
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