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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On August 11 2010 01:06 IdrA wrote: because its fucking awful This is basically it, it's not much of a mystery. It doesnt require pages of statistical evidence. If you have played zerg at all in the higher point level of diamond, you'd know it is tedious and frustrating compared to the other races | ||
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Scruff
Singapore509 Posts
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sysrpl
United States222 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:53 PanzerDragoon wrote: They do, but I don't even know what they can do without sabotaging Terran race identity or wildly buffing Zerg. Blizzard can redo the Zerg macro mechanic and add another low supply unit or reduce the supply of an existing unit while debuffing said unit. The Zerg macro mechanic is the most painful one in the system and keeps many people from playing Zerg. You have to stay on top of spawn larva, and if you miss one you are punished. This is not the same with the other races macro mechanics. I'd suggest the fix to be that hatcheries have a stacked spawn larva timer which allows for X spawn larva casts in Y time. That is to say, if you miss spawn larva on a hatchery for 2 minutes, you could use spawn larva on said hatchery 2 or 3 times at once. As for adding another unit, Zerg max army really doesn't feel like a swarm. They need more low supply units to allow them to mass up. They took away scourge, which was a 2 for 1 supply units, and bumped the roach to 2 unit. They need another 1 supply ground or air unit. Something also with a unique ability or mold to compliment the Zerg arsenal. Maybe an upgrade to allow the queen to fly plus give her an offensive spell like a cloaking cloud. | ||
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Artery
United States81 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:08 SpaceYeti wrote: Zerg is the most underrepresented of the three races taking players from all leagues into account, globally. If you are willing to presume that the 8.65% of players who play random either have no race preference or just enjoy playing random for the challenge, that leaves you with what should be ~30.45% for each of the three races if they were all played equally. However, only ~20.26% of players play Zerg, across all leagues and regions. These statistics are of course for the 1v1 bracket. Surprisingly, they get even worse in the team brackets! For instance, in the 4v4 Random bracket, Zerg is played by 15.49% of players! That is less than those who play Random, and less than half of those who play Terran or Protoss each!! So, the question is, why do less players prefer Zerg as their race, and why is this magnified in team games? Is Zerg harder to learn? less interesting to play? underpowered? Thoughts? How does this inform current Zerg players in terms of strategy? 1v1 Stats: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/us/1/all 2v2 Stats: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/us/2R/all 3v3 Stats: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/us/3R/all 4v4 Stats: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/us/4R/all Im a diamond lvl zerg player and I think that zerg is underplayed because they simply have no game changing units, Zerg needs mass and the opening build orders are extremely limited atm. I have played zerg since phase 1 and you can either go hydra or muta mid game. Those are really your only two viable options for mid game zerg to keep you from being over run. ~MORE DIVERSITY FOR ZERG UNITS~ is what zerg needs. Just the addition of one more plausible tier 2 unit would be extremely helpful for the zerg race. For the moment zerg is boring and need something else simply put, I like playing the underdog race and that is why I choose zerg. And Vs protoss high level, protoss just needs to get pheonixs..block ramp...rush pheonix...lift and kill queens and any hydras then kill ovvies. GG everytime. | ||
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Sayer
United States403 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:54 Drowsy wrote: Then why isn't this true in broodwar too? oh that's why. couldn't agree more | ||
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gerundium
Netherlands786 Posts
Number of zerg / terran / protoss in top X of Diamond. Completely and utterly useless statistic when you are talking about game balance. You are wrongfully assuming people choose the race they play solely on OP / UP. That in itself is a huge mistake, because people will play zerg because they played zerg in BW or because they think it's cool that the race is different from normal RTS games. Thus anyone who has said that a race is or is not imbalanced based on this is discredited in my opinion. Win percentages. Win percentages are useless for determining matchup balance. This is completely obvious, because it encompasses ZvP, ZvZ and ZvT. Don't talk about the perceived imbalance of the ZvT matchup and drag in general winpercentages please. Third party statistics. Do not rely on third party statistics blindly, they don't have to be 100% accurate. EDIT: Before someone comes in and tries to be clever about preferences evening out in large groups of subjects let me tell you that is not true and also a false assumption. Things like campaign and who is perceived as bad (or social implications that exist outside of the game) have influences on which race is played. Terran might for example be overrepresented at the top because it is perceived as cooler then those ugly zergs. | ||
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PietjeP89
Belgium83 Posts
Then i switched to protoss and found it to be a lot "easier". Not easy as in , omgwtfowned , just more forgiving then zerg.. If you mess up your larva production just once you can easily lose a game. I think a lot of new players are scared of this mechanic and choose another "easier" to play race.. Again , not easy as in omgwtfownedyou without skill.. More forgiving  | ||
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CagedMind
United States506 Posts
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:49 onmach wrote: They aren't underpowered. They are slapped together. They have stupid powers like infested terrans and their upgrades are all poorly though out and I'm sure the race as a whole is confusing to newbies. God I hope blizzard takes a real hard look at what they've done now that the game is released. Sorry, but who cares about newbies? If someone keeps playing a game he stops being a newbie after a month or so and it would be a stupid decision to make a race easily accessible for every idiot who cant be bothered to spend time to get in shape, read a manual or play through tutorial missions. Instant win buttons are boring and dont make a great game, but a challenging game that is hard to master does ... | ||
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
Global diamond leaguers: Random: 10.14% Protoss: 35.43% Terran: 29.98% Zerg: 24.45% Global Top 250 Players: Random: 2.00% Protoss: 34.80% Terran: 38.80% Zerg: 24.40% | ||
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kayl
Sweden27 Posts
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:43 teamsolid wrote: People have debunked your arguments countless times, you just choose to ignore them so you can flaunt them in multiple threads like this one like an idiot. The ONLY thing equal win %'s mean is that the MM is doing its job and matching every player with an opponent near his skill level. Get that through your thick skull and stop trolling with your so called "statistics". Also, statistics are not needed when there are plenty of high level Terran and Protoss players who agree that something needs to be changed in ZvT. I completely agree with you. people getting those raw data to say its balanced have no idea about data analysis. first, there is a matchmaking system to make people face someone at their level. secondly, there are way lesser zerg players which means they results in raw data won't be equal of the other races. lastly we don't know the margin of results that can be considered a draw. everything we say about raw data is intuitive, with no background to support anything. it's a total guess, it's BS. so, please, stop using raw data to justify something you have no idea about. artosis even made a statement in his twitter calling SC2 the most imbalanced game he ever played. everyone, specially top players, are calling zerg the weakest race. zerg is not weak, it's strong, but still weaker than the other races. | ||
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Melt
Switzerland281 Posts
There is no Build-x that works everytime. Every game is different. All this make them seem a little imbalanced. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
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Zeridian
United States198 Posts
Just because race distribution is saturated towards terran/toss, doesn't automatically mean that the race sucks. For now I admit it does seem bleak for zerg, but there are a lot of factors like learning curve and proactive creep spreading that take a lot of apm, and understanding. Most people would rather have more given options like mule/scan/supply or chronobooost, to use, rather than using larva spawn proactively and spreading creep. Another thing to note, I rarely see much zerg air, maybe they could use another unit or some buffing imo. | ||
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sekalf
Sweden522 Posts
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
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soverRR
Sweden348 Posts
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Cerion
213 Posts
2) No SP missions to introduce zerg (you'd think they could throw in a few bonus Kerrigan missions or something), and queen mechanics are generally badly designed and unfriendly to new players 3) lots of vocal community complaints about TvZ | ||
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OPSavioR
Sweden1465 Posts
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