|
On August 11 2010 00:50 tacrats wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:47 OverTheUnder wrote:On August 11 2010 00:43 teamsolid wrote:On August 11 2010 00:39 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:36 tacrats wrote:On August 11 2010 00:33 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:31 tacrats wrote:Thats not evidence. Keep thinking that bro. Top players (who dont play zerg) have stated many times that there is imbalance in map design as well inherent ability of zerg. There is no statistic that is going to prove imbalance, you need to understand how the game works. Unfortunately it is evident that you do not understand how the gameworks. You are so angarrry.  This has got to be the only field in which solid statistical facts and reasoning are dismissed in favour of some anecdotal venting from frustrated players. Angry? Im actually laughing at the fact you think your 'statistics' prove anything at all. And the fact that you continue to link back to them as if they were actually informative at one point is hysterical. You are ignorant to believe that the data you link to supports balance. The only data that would prove balance is unavailable. But you dont seem to understand that. Would you like to debunk my arguments somewhere?  I have explained time and time again how this is very reliable evidence. Nothing is "proven". Diamond-level win-ratios are equal across all races. Zergs are as well-represented in diamond as they are in the general population. What does this evidence seem to say to you? On the other hand, there is absolutely no statistical evidence that zerg is underpowered. People have debunked your arguments countless times, you just choose to ignore them so you can flaunt them in multiple threads like this one like an idiot. The ONLY thing equal win %'s mean is that the MM is doing its job and matching every player with an opponent near his skill level. Get that through your thick skull and stop trolling with your so called "statistics". Also, statistics are not needed when there are plenty of high level Terran and Protoss players who agree that something needs to be changed in ZvT. ok, I guess I'm clueless. Where are all these threads/posts/interviews or w/e saying the ZvT is terribly imbalanced? Where you been bro? Most recent ive seen was cauthonluck said in an interview after beating sheth on the weekend in the finals of a small tournament that zerg needs help vs terrans huge amount of openings.
They do, but I don't even know what they can do without sabotaging Terran race identity or wildly buffing Zerg.
|
On August 11 2010 00:49 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:46 tacrats wrote:On August 11 2010 00:39 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:36 tacrats wrote:On August 11 2010 00:33 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:31 tacrats wrote:Thats not evidence. Keep thinking that bro. Top players (who dont play zerg) have stated many times that there is imbalance in map design as well inherent ability of zerg. There is no statistic that is going to prove imbalance, you need to understand how the game works. Unfortunately it is evident that you do not understand how the gameworks. You are so angarrry. This has got to be the only field in which solid statistical facts and reasoning are dismissed in favour of some anecdotal venting from frustrated players. Angry? Im actually laughing at the fact you think your 'statistics' prove anything at all. And the fact that you continue to link back to them as if they were actually informative at one point is hysterical. You are ignorant to believe that the data you link to supports balance. The only data that would prove balance is unavailable. But you dont seem to understand that. Would you like to debunk my arguments somewhere? I have explained time and time again how this is very reliable evidence. Nothing is "proven". Diamond-level win-ratios are equal across all races. Zergs are as well-represented in diamond as they are in the general population. What does this evidence seem to say to you? On the other hand, there is absolutely no statistical evidence that zerg is underpowered. You are so ignorant its amazing. Sorry i cannot provide the statistical evidence required to prove it as i do not have access to blizzards servers. Do you know how easy it is to get into diamond? Do you know how many diamond players play platinum players often? Do you know that within diamond there are noob diamonds and top diamond? Do you not understand how these things skew the data? I beat noob terrans all the time, but good ones i lose to almost all the time. But your 'data' would show i have a 50/50 win ratio which is perfect right? Which is exactly what we would expect right? Oh wait isnt that what matchmaking tries to do? Get me to 50% wins? But wait, does that fuck up your argument as you cant rely on a statistic of my win ratios vs terran since bnet matches me against lower skilled people to compensate for losing against better players? But i am still in diamond? Yeah, i think it does. Damn, you just dont get it do you? Do you even play this game? Do you see how matchmaking works? Do you know anything outside of your 'stats 101 divide this number by this number to get a percent' arguments? He's done the data with the top 200s for regions also, and the same holds true. In Korea, Zerg is underplayed but overrepresented in the very top ranks of ELO. There's probably a slight, slight imbalance, but probably not enough that it should be blamed for every Zerg loss like Idra does.
Sorry but i saw the same data and you saying they are underplayed is true when you take into account all levels (bronze to diamond). However overrepresented in the top 200 is not true if you look at the total diamond races translated into the top 200. in fact it shows zerg is underrepresented.
It only makes sense to use diamond races and not plat and below as the top 200 are made up of diamond players...
|
On August 11 2010 00:53 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:50 tacrats wrote:On August 11 2010 00:47 OverTheUnder wrote:On August 11 2010 00:43 teamsolid wrote:On August 11 2010 00:39 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:36 tacrats wrote:On August 11 2010 00:33 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:31 tacrats wrote:Thats not evidence. Keep thinking that bro. Top players (who dont play zerg) have stated many times that there is imbalance in map design as well inherent ability of zerg. There is no statistic that is going to prove imbalance, you need to understand how the game works. Unfortunately it is evident that you do not understand how the gameworks. You are so angarrry. This has got to be the only field in which solid statistical facts and reasoning are dismissed in favour of some anecdotal venting from frustrated players. Angry? Im actually laughing at the fact you think your 'statistics' prove anything at all. And the fact that you continue to link back to them as if they were actually informative at one point is hysterical. You are ignorant to believe that the data you link to supports balance. The only data that would prove balance is unavailable. But you dont seem to understand that. Would you like to debunk my arguments somewhere? I have explained time and time again how this is very reliable evidence. Nothing is "proven". Diamond-level win-ratios are equal across all races. Zergs are as well-represented in diamond as they are in the general population. What does this evidence seem to say to you? On the other hand, there is absolutely no statistical evidence that zerg is underpowered. People have debunked your arguments countless times, you just choose to ignore them so you can flaunt them in multiple threads like this one like an idiot. The ONLY thing equal win %'s mean is that the MM is doing its job and matching every player with an opponent near his skill level. Get that through your thick skull and stop trolling with your so called "statistics". Also, statistics are not needed when there are plenty of high level Terran and Protoss players who agree that something needs to be changed in ZvT. ok, I guess I'm clueless. Where are all these threads/posts/interviews or w/e saying the ZvT is terribly imbalanced? Where you been bro? Most recent ive seen was cauthonluck said in an interview after beating sheth on the weekend in the finals of a small tournament that zerg needs help vs terrans huge amount of openings. They do, but I don't even know what they can do without sabotaging Terran race identity or wildly buffing Zerg.
I agree. So there is imbalance. While the solution is unknown, we first have to conclude that there IS imbalance.
it seems people cant get over step #1 yet.
|
On August 11 2010 00:38 Soulthirsty wrote:Maybe Zergs just look bad. They are like pulsating, deviant biology, like a virus or something. When you look at aliens movies, do you want to encourage humans or aliens ?
Then why isn't this true in broodwar too?
On August 11 2010 00:38 CScythe wrote:
Zerg is boring. I don't think they're underpowered, they're just pathetic. It feels like Blizzard put no effort into them.
oh that's why.
|
Zerg is pretty tedious and difficult to play. Especially for newer players who will have bad mechanical skill. Apart from that, it is a very bland race with very limited options. Mostly a-move units that don't have any special ability or trait. So you don't even get rewarded with interesting stuff if you manage to go through the effort of upping your mechanics.
To add insult to the injury, they're pretty weak against Terran.
I'm a Terran player btw, having tried some of all races before picking. Although I do want to mention that I picked Terran pretty early in beta, when Thors were still big and tanks would still shoot the edge, rather then the center of a units, aka mech wasn't very popular and zerg was pretty strong.
|
On August 11 2010 00:48 ahwala wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:39 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:36 tacrats wrote:On August 11 2010 00:33 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:31 tacrats wrote:Thats not evidence. Keep thinking that bro. Top players (who dont play zerg) have stated many times that there is imbalance in map design as well inherent ability of zerg. There is no statistic that is going to prove imbalance, you need to understand how the game works. Unfortunately it is evident that you do not understand how the gameworks. You are so angarrry. This has got to be the only field in which solid statistical facts and reasoning are dismissed in favour of some anecdotal venting from frustrated players. Angry? Im actually laughing at the fact you think your 'statistics' prove anything at all. And the fact that you continue to link back to them as if they were actually informative at one point is hysterical. You are ignorant to believe that the data you link to supports balance. The only data that would prove balance is unavailable. But you dont seem to understand that. Would you like to debunk my arguments somewhere? I have explained time and time again how this is very reliable evidence. Nothing is "proven". Diamond-level win-ratios are equal across all races. Zergs are as well-represented in diamond as they are in the general population. What does this evidence seem to say to you? On the other hand, there is absolutely no statistical evidence that zerg is underpowered. Im angry about your ignorance. The AMM is designed to provide a WLR about 50%, which 10 people tried to explain to you in the other thread, and still you are holding on to your wrong argument. It's just not worth having a discussion with you, because it's useless due to your dullness.
I'm sorry, but you don't seem to understand that, if zerg is underpowered, the matchmaker will provide a 50% WLR and zergs will be underrepresented in the higher sections of the leagues.
|
On August 11 2010 00:53 tacrats wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:49 PanzerDragoon wrote:On August 11 2010 00:46 tacrats wrote:On August 11 2010 00:39 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:36 tacrats wrote:On August 11 2010 00:33 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:31 tacrats wrote:Thats not evidence. Keep thinking that bro. Top players (who dont play zerg) have stated many times that there is imbalance in map design as well inherent ability of zerg. There is no statistic that is going to prove imbalance, you need to understand how the game works. Unfortunately it is evident that you do not understand how the gameworks. You are so angarrry. This has got to be the only field in which solid statistical facts and reasoning are dismissed in favour of some anecdotal venting from frustrated players. Angry? Im actually laughing at the fact you think your 'statistics' prove anything at all. And the fact that you continue to link back to them as if they were actually informative at one point is hysterical. You are ignorant to believe that the data you link to supports balance. The only data that would prove balance is unavailable. But you dont seem to understand that. Would you like to debunk my arguments somewhere? I have explained time and time again how this is very reliable evidence. Nothing is "proven". Diamond-level win-ratios are equal across all races. Zergs are as well-represented in diamond as they are in the general population. What does this evidence seem to say to you? On the other hand, there is absolutely no statistical evidence that zerg is underpowered. You are so ignorant its amazing. Sorry i cannot provide the statistical evidence required to prove it as i do not have access to blizzards servers. Do you know how easy it is to get into diamond? Do you know how many diamond players play platinum players often? Do you know that within diamond there are noob diamonds and top diamond? Do you not understand how these things skew the data? I beat noob terrans all the time, but good ones i lose to almost all the time. But your 'data' would show i have a 50/50 win ratio which is perfect right? Which is exactly what we would expect right? Oh wait isnt that what matchmaking tries to do? Get me to 50% wins? But wait, does that fuck up your argument as you cant rely on a statistic of my win ratios vs terran since bnet matches me against lower skilled people to compensate for losing against better players? But i am still in diamond? Yeah, i think it does. Damn, you just dont get it do you? Do you even play this game? Do you see how matchmaking works? Do you know anything outside of your 'stats 101 divide this number by this number to get a percent' arguments? He's done the data with the top 200s for regions also, and the same holds true. In Korea, Zerg is underplayed but overrepresented in the very top ranks of ELO. There's probably a slight, slight imbalance, but probably not enough that it should be blamed for every Zerg loss like Idra does. Sorry but i saw the same data and you saying they are underplayed is true when you take into account all levels (bronze to diamond). However overrepresented in the top 200 is not true if you look at the total diamond races translated into the top 200. in fact it shows zerg is underrepresented. It only makes sense to use diamond races and not plat and below as the top 200 are made up of diamond players...
No, 24% of the top 200 is zerg. 24% of diamond league is also zerg.
|
Bottom line for me at least is that blizzard owes us Zerg users big time.
They better come up in HofS with something badass and extraordinary that would change this bad perception of Zerg..
|
On August 11 2010 00:48 kajeus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:43 teamsolid wrote:On August 11 2010 00:39 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:36 tacrats wrote:On August 11 2010 00:33 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:31 tacrats wrote:Thats not evidence. Keep thinking that bro. Top players (who dont play zerg) have stated many times that there is imbalance in map design as well inherent ability of zerg. There is no statistic that is going to prove imbalance, you need to understand how the game works. Unfortunately it is evident that you do not understand how the gameworks. You are so angarrry. This has got to be the only field in which solid statistical facts and reasoning are dismissed in favour of some anecdotal venting from frustrated players. Angry? Im actually laughing at the fact you think your 'statistics' prove anything at all. And the fact that you continue to link back to them as if they were actually informative at one point is hysterical. You are ignorant to believe that the data you link to supports balance. The only data that would prove balance is unavailable. But you dont seem to understand that. Would you like to debunk my arguments somewhere? I have explained time and time again how this is very reliable evidence. Nothing is "proven". Diamond-level win-ratios are equal across all races. Zergs are as well-represented in diamond as they are in the general population. What does this evidence seem to say to you? On the other hand, there is absolutely no statistical evidence that zerg is underpowered. People have debunked your arguments countless times, you just choose to ignore them so you can flaunt them in multiple threads like this one like an idiot. The ONLY thing equal win %'s mean is that the MM is doing its job and matching every player with an opponent near his skill level. Get that through your thick skull and stop trolling with your so called "statistics". Your argument is that good zergs are playing worse terrans. This would imply that a good matchmaker and equal win percentages will leave proportionally FEWER zergs in the top 200 and diamond league. Under your scenario, a zerg with top-200-level mechanics will be stuck at 300th place because he can't beat top terrans, who are worse than him. Yet zergs are as well represented in the top levels of the ladder as they are in the general population.
You do realize the ladder has more than just Terran players? If Zerg players are winning against other good Zerg and Protoss players, it doesn't matter if they lose to a few good Terrans, their win % will still even out due to the AMM and their ELL will still climb. Also, Diamond league practically is the general population, since anyone who has even an inkling of understanding of the game can reach diamond if they play enough games.
Show nested quote +Also, statistics are not needed when there are plenty of high level Terran and Protoss players who agree that something needs to be changed in ZvT. I'm sorry, but you genuinely don't seem to understand the logic of the statistical argument.
I'm sorry, but you are genuinely an idiot. It's like talking to a brick wall.
|
On August 11 2010 00:57 kajeus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:53 tacrats wrote:On August 11 2010 00:49 PanzerDragoon wrote:On August 11 2010 00:46 tacrats wrote:On August 11 2010 00:39 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:36 tacrats wrote:On August 11 2010 00:33 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:31 tacrats wrote:Thats not evidence. Keep thinking that bro. Top players (who dont play zerg) have stated many times that there is imbalance in map design as well inherent ability of zerg. There is no statistic that is going to prove imbalance, you need to understand how the game works. Unfortunately it is evident that you do not understand how the gameworks. You are so angarrry. This has got to be the only field in which solid statistical facts and reasoning are dismissed in favour of some anecdotal venting from frustrated players. Angry? Im actually laughing at the fact you think your 'statistics' prove anything at all. And the fact that you continue to link back to them as if they were actually informative at one point is hysterical. You are ignorant to believe that the data you link to supports balance. The only data that would prove balance is unavailable. But you dont seem to understand that. Would you like to debunk my arguments somewhere? I have explained time and time again how this is very reliable evidence. Nothing is "proven". Diamond-level win-ratios are equal across all races. Zergs are as well-represented in diamond as they are in the general population. What does this evidence seem to say to you? On the other hand, there is absolutely no statistical evidence that zerg is underpowered. You are so ignorant its amazing. Sorry i cannot provide the statistical evidence required to prove it as i do not have access to blizzards servers. Do you know how easy it is to get into diamond? Do you know how many diamond players play platinum players often? Do you know that within diamond there are noob diamonds and top diamond? Do you not understand how these things skew the data? I beat noob terrans all the time, but good ones i lose to almost all the time. But your 'data' would show i have a 50/50 win ratio which is perfect right? Which is exactly what we would expect right? Oh wait isnt that what matchmaking tries to do? Get me to 50% wins? But wait, does that fuck up your argument as you cant rely on a statistic of my win ratios vs terran since bnet matches me against lower skilled people to compensate for losing against better players? But i am still in diamond? Yeah, i think it does. Damn, you just dont get it do you? Do you even play this game? Do you see how matchmaking works? Do you know anything outside of your 'stats 101 divide this number by this number to get a percent' arguments? He's done the data with the top 200s for regions also, and the same holds true. In Korea, Zerg is underplayed but overrepresented in the very top ranks of ELO. There's probably a slight, slight imbalance, but probably not enough that it should be blamed for every Zerg loss like Idra does. Sorry but i saw the same data and you saying they are underplayed is true when you take into account all levels (bronze to diamond). However overrepresented in the top 200 is not true if you look at the total diamond races translated into the top 200. in fact it shows zerg is underrepresented. It only makes sense to use diamond races and not plat and below as the top 200 are made up of diamond players... No, 24% of the top 200 is zerg. 24% of diamond league is also zerg.
24% of the top 200 is 48.
in the top 200 there is 35 zergs.
Redo your math.
edit: dude on the first page of that thread had wrong count
|
On August 11 2010 00:46 tacrats wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:39 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:36 tacrats wrote:On August 11 2010 00:33 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:31 tacrats wrote:Thats not evidence. Keep thinking that bro. Top players (who dont play zerg) have stated many times that there is imbalance in map design as well inherent ability of zerg. There is no statistic that is going to prove imbalance, you need to understand how the game works. Unfortunately it is evident that you do not understand how the gameworks. You are so angarrry. This has got to be the only field in which solid statistical facts and reasoning are dismissed in favour of some anecdotal venting from frustrated players. Angry? Im actually laughing at the fact you think your 'statistics' prove anything at all. And the fact that you continue to link back to them as if they were actually informative at one point is hysterical. You are ignorant to believe that the data you link to supports balance. The only data that would prove balance is unavailable. But you dont seem to understand that. Would you like to debunk my arguments somewhere? I have explained time and time again how this is very reliable evidence. Nothing is "proven". Diamond-level win-ratios are equal across all races. Zergs are as well-represented in diamond as they are in the general population. What does this evidence seem to say to you? On the other hand, there is absolutely no statistical evidence that zerg is underpowered. You are so ignorant its amazing. Sorry i cannot provide the statistical evidence required to prove it as i do not have access to blizzards servers. Do you know how easy it is to get into diamond? Do you know how many diamond players play platinum players often? Do you know that within diamond there are noob diamonds and top diamond? Do you not understand how these things skew the data? I beat noob terrans all the time, but good ones i lose to almost all the time. [b]But your 'data' would show i have a 50/50 win ratio which is perfect right?[/b[Which is exactly what we would expect right? Oh wait isnt that what matchmaking tries to do? Get me to 50% wins? But wait, does that fuck up your argument as you cant rely on a statistic of my win ratios vs terran since bnet matches me against lower skilled people to compensate for losing against better players? But i am still in diamond? Yeah, i think it does. Damn, you just dont get it do you? Do you even play this game? Do you see how matchmaking works? Do you know anything outside of your 'stats 101 divide this number by this number to get a percent' arguments?
if you were a top zerg player, the data might show 50% overall but across the board the stats would favor terran for the TvZ matchup, either you don't understand that or I am the one that is really confused;/
|
On August 11 2010 00:59 OverTheUnder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:46 tacrats wrote:On August 11 2010 00:39 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:36 tacrats wrote:On August 11 2010 00:33 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:31 tacrats wrote:Thats not evidence. Keep thinking that bro. Top players (who dont play zerg) have stated many times that there is imbalance in map design as well inherent ability of zerg. There is no statistic that is going to prove imbalance, you need to understand how the game works. Unfortunately it is evident that you do not understand how the gameworks. You are so angarrry. This has got to be the only field in which solid statistical facts and reasoning are dismissed in favour of some anecdotal venting from frustrated players. Angry? Im actually laughing at the fact you think your 'statistics' prove anything at all. And the fact that you continue to link back to them as if they were actually informative at one point is hysterical. You are ignorant to believe that the data you link to supports balance. The only data that would prove balance is unavailable. But you dont seem to understand that. Would you like to debunk my arguments somewhere? I have explained time and time again how this is very reliable evidence. Nothing is "proven". Diamond-level win-ratios are equal across all races. Zergs are as well-represented in diamond as they are in the general population. What does this evidence seem to say to you? On the other hand, there is absolutely no statistical evidence that zerg is underpowered. You are so ignorant its amazing. Sorry i cannot provide the statistical evidence required to prove it as i do not have access to blizzards servers. Do you know how easy it is to get into diamond? Do you know how many diamond players play platinum players often? Do you know that within diamond there are noob diamonds and top diamond? Do you not understand how these things skew the data? I beat noob terrans all the time, but good ones i lose to almost all the time. [b]But your 'data' would show i have a 50/50 win ratio which is perfect right?[/b[Which is exactly what we would expect right? Oh wait isnt that what matchmaking tries to do? Get me to 50% wins? But wait, does that fuck up your argument as you cant rely on a statistic of my win ratios vs terran since bnet matches me against lower skilled people to compensate for losing against better players? But i am still in diamond? Yeah, i think it does. Damn, you just dont get it do you? Do you even play this game? Do you see how matchmaking works? Do you know anything outside of your 'stats 101 divide this number by this number to get a percent' arguments? if you were a top zerg player, the data might show 50% overall but across the board the stats would favor terran for the TvZ matchup, either you don't understand that or I am the one that is really confused;/
Exactly. People are not basing their statistics on the matchups. They are doing it on overall statistics.
Plus you cant just break it down by matchup, have to do diamond vs diamond matchups. etc. We dont have that type of detail to work with.
|
The campaign also introduces the majority of people to terran...
|
On August 11 2010 00:59 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:48 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:43 teamsolid wrote:On August 11 2010 00:39 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:36 tacrats wrote:On August 11 2010 00:33 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:31 tacrats wrote:Thats not evidence. Keep thinking that bro. Top players (who dont play zerg) have stated many times that there is imbalance in map design as well inherent ability of zerg. There is no statistic that is going to prove imbalance, you need to understand how the game works. Unfortunately it is evident that you do not understand how the gameworks. You are so angarrry. This has got to be the only field in which solid statistical facts and reasoning are dismissed in favour of some anecdotal venting from frustrated players. Angry? Im actually laughing at the fact you think your 'statistics' prove anything at all. And the fact that you continue to link back to them as if they were actually informative at one point is hysterical. You are ignorant to believe that the data you link to supports balance. The only data that would prove balance is unavailable. But you dont seem to understand that. Would you like to debunk my arguments somewhere? I have explained time and time again how this is very reliable evidence. Nothing is "proven". Diamond-level win-ratios are equal across all races. Zergs are as well-represented in diamond as they are in the general population. What does this evidence seem to say to you? On the other hand, there is absolutely no statistical evidence that zerg is underpowered. People have debunked your arguments countless times, you just choose to ignore them so you can flaunt them in multiple threads like this one like an idiot. The ONLY thing equal win %'s mean is that the MM is doing its job and matching every player with an opponent near his skill level. Get that through your thick skull and stop trolling with your so called "statistics". Your argument is that good zergs are playing worse terrans. This would imply that a good matchmaker and equal win percentages will leave proportionally FEWER zergs in the top 200 and diamond league. Under your scenario, a zerg with top-200-level mechanics will be stuck at 300th place because he can't beat top terrans, who are worse than him. Yet zergs are as well represented in the top levels of the ladder as they are in the general population. You do realize the ladder has more than just Terran players? If Zerg players are winning against other good Zerg and Protoss players, it doesn't matter if they lose to a few good Terrans, their win % will still even out due to the AMM. Also, Diamond league practically is the general population, since anyone who has even an inkling of understanding of the game can reach diamond if they play enough games. Show nested quote +Also, statistics are not needed when there are plenty of high level Terran and Protoss players who agree that something needs to be changed in ZvT. I'm sorry, but you genuinely don't seem to understand the logic of the statistical argument.
I'm sorry, but you are genuinely an idiot. It's like talking to a brick wall.
Ideally a look at the W/L rations in ZvT for all top zergs would be better. It wouldn't be conclusive evidence either way, but it is still strong evidence for something wrong with the MU, be it an unevolved zerg meta game, imbalance, or unknown reason X.
Accepting imbalance so quickly is a very bad habit to get into.
edit: ok I thought there were MU specific statistics on the site...my bad;p
|
kajeus I'm not gonna waste time arguing or debating your "statistical" evidence because it seems you are too hot-headed to change your mind about it. There are 37 or 18.5% Zergs in NA top 200, I don't think that's well represented. In Korea the story might be different, but 18.5% doesn't sound like a good number to me.
|
because its fucking awful
|
On August 11 2010 01:05 OverTheUnder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:59 teamsolid wrote:On August 11 2010 00:48 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:43 teamsolid wrote:On August 11 2010 00:39 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:36 tacrats wrote:On August 11 2010 00:33 kajeus wrote:On August 11 2010 00:31 tacrats wrote:Thats not evidence. Keep thinking that bro. Top players (who dont play zerg) have stated many times that there is imbalance in map design as well inherent ability of zerg. There is no statistic that is going to prove imbalance, you need to understand how the game works. Unfortunately it is evident that you do not understand how the gameworks. You are so angarrry. This has got to be the only field in which solid statistical facts and reasoning are dismissed in favour of some anecdotal venting from frustrated players. Angry? Im actually laughing at the fact you think your 'statistics' prove anything at all. And the fact that you continue to link back to them as if they were actually informative at one point is hysterical. You are ignorant to believe that the data you link to supports balance. The only data that would prove balance is unavailable. But you dont seem to understand that. Would you like to debunk my arguments somewhere? I have explained time and time again how this is very reliable evidence. Nothing is "proven". Diamond-level win-ratios are equal across all races. Zergs are as well-represented in diamond as they are in the general population. What does this evidence seem to say to you? On the other hand, there is absolutely no statistical evidence that zerg is underpowered. People have debunked your arguments countless times, you just choose to ignore them so you can flaunt them in multiple threads like this one like an idiot. The ONLY thing equal win %'s mean is that the MM is doing its job and matching every player with an opponent near his skill level. Get that through your thick skull and stop trolling with your so called "statistics". Your argument is that good zergs are playing worse terrans. This would imply that a good matchmaker and equal win percentages will leave proportionally FEWER zergs in the top 200 and diamond league. Under your scenario, a zerg with top-200-level mechanics will be stuck at 300th place because he can't beat top terrans, who are worse than him. Yet zergs are as well represented in the top levels of the ladder as they are in the general population. You do realize the ladder has more than just Terran players? If Zerg players are winning against other good Zerg and Protoss players, it doesn't matter if they lose to a few good Terrans, their win % will still even out due to the AMM. Also, Diamond league practically is the general population, since anyone who has even an inkling of understanding of the game can reach diamond if they play enough games. Also, statistics are not needed when there are plenty of high level Terran and Protoss players who agree that something needs to be changed in ZvT. I'm sorry, but you genuinely don't seem to understand the logic of the statistical argument. I'm sorry, but you are genuinely an idiot. It's like talking to a brick wall. holy shit guys, this seems so obvious to me. So don't look at overall W/L ratio, look at TvZ specific ratio. Ideally a look at the W/L rations in ZvT for all top zergs would be better. It wouldn't be conclusive evidence either way, but it is still strong evidence for something wrong with the MU, be it an unevolved zerg meta game, imbalance, or unknown reason X. Accepting imbalance so quickly is a very bad habit to get into.
So tell that to the blabbering idiot who think his statistics mean something? It's pretty obvious to me as well that you need individual matchup statistics to glean any kind of useful information.
|
My opinion is that beside it being the hardest and maybe the weakest, less people like bugs/monsters than shiny golden armors/pew pew lazers or nukes/mech.
|
On August 11 2010 00:52 PanzerDragoon wrote:
The whining of Idra and Artosis is like a poison that spreads to every other user on here, breeding groupthink and complaining instead of any objective solution. Leads to bashing of people just because they play Terran or want to look at something critical
this
|
On August 11 2010 00:11 kajeus wrote:
Could it be because everywhere you go, every time a prominent English-speaking zerg player opens his mouth, people float the completely unproven claim that zerg is underpowered?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
