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Backstabbing a bannable offense - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
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dybydx
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada1764 Posts
July 28 2010 07:01 GMT
#41
:p

i suppose u guys didn't read the EULA? what made u think u had "rights"?
...from the land of imba
Trowabarton756
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States870 Posts
July 28 2010 07:07 GMT
#42
lol this is bull shit. there is no reason to ban someone for this, its a fucking video game, even someone like me who thinks his win record needs to be at least 70% wouldn't give two shits if I lost a few games to backstabb. 9/10 you can tell when they are gonna do it anyways. plus you're ruining a starcraft tradition. Gotta love the ole 7v1 comp no bs, that devolves into a giant game of bs where teams are made and ended in a heart beat. ITS TRADITION AND YOU DON'T FUCK WITH TRADITION!
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Trowabarton756
Gedrah
Profile Joined February 2010
465 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 07:11:46
July 28 2010 07:11 GMT
#43
It is a pretty slippery situation, tbh. While overtly attacking your teammate to rage or grief is terrible and we've all probably both done it and experienced it, it's very unlikely to be a huge recurring problem. The things that I worry about more with the pall of the idea that we can get banned for it hanging over our heads is when I'm furiously shoot'n'scooting and accidentally target fire one of my teammate's critical units and cost us the game. Is the guy going to be so pissed as to try and cause me repercussions? Some of you guys rage very easily, and take one loss way too seriously just because you feel like you're justified. It's bad enough that some people will cuss you out for making the wrong unit at the wrong time. Blizzard has no business banning keys over this manner of infraction except in the top third of the ladder, perhaps, if people are starting to do shady shit like synchonizing queues to effect a 3v1 in the 2v2 ladder for the sake of 2 of the players gaining ELO.
What is a dickfour?
fyyer
Profile Joined February 2010
United States145 Posts
July 28 2010 07:12 GMT
#44
On July 28 2010 16:07 Trowabarton756 wrote:
lol this is bull shit. there is no reason to ban someone for this, its a fucking video game, even someone like me who thinks his win record needs to be at least 70% wouldn't give two shits if I lost a few games to backstabb. 9/10 you can tell when they are gonna do it anyways. plus you're ruining a starcraft tradition. Gotta love the ole 7v1 comp no bs, that devolves into a giant game of bs where teams are made and ended in a heart beat. ITS TRADITION AND YOU DON'T FUCK WITH TRADITION!


I lol'd, those games were funny. :D
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
July 28 2010 07:19 GMT
#45
On July 28 2010 16:07 Trowabarton756 wrote:
lol this is bull shit. there is no reason to ban someone for this, its a fucking video game, even someone like me who thinks his win record needs to be at least 70% wouldn't give two shits if I lost a few games to backstabb. 9/10 you can tell when they are gonna do it anyways. plus you're ruining a starcraft tradition. Gotta love the ole 7v1 comp no bs, that devolves into a giant game of bs where teams are made and ended in a heart beat. ITS TRADITION AND YOU DON'T FUCK WITH TRADITION!

Yeah, 7v1 comp stomps were awesome for that reason alone.
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
Gedrah
Profile Joined February 2010
465 Posts
July 28 2010 07:19 GMT
#46
On July 28 2010 13:04 Tray wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2010 13:00 Wr3k wrote:
On July 28 2010 12:59 Tray wrote:
Yes it's bannable. I got two people banned in beta for doing it. Bad players sometimes get really raged and think that if they kill their teamate and ragequit it'll get back at them somehow. But then they get reported for it and banned. It's a no brainer. Don't backstab your teamates, no matter what.

And yes it requires attack click.


How could you possibly know if they were actually banned?


Because the day after I banned them they never logged in again for weeks? I added them as a friend to see if they would login again and it tells you the last time they logged in.

Pretty simple.

Also backstabbing is subjective. Killing a guy's building strategically is rare, but likely your teamate won't report you. It's pretty easy to tell who's doing it to ruin the game.

Also this is nothing like not 'gg'ing. You don't have a right to ruin the game for your random teamate, sorry. Backstabbing is not a style of play.


I don't mean to sound confrontational or aggressive, but I probably will. I apologize. I don't believe you got people banned. It's very easy to say you did such a thing and to name your method for determining your success, but I don't believe many people got banned from beta for any reason. I played throughout beta with the name FIREDlCK in all caps (one of the Is was a lowercase L so it passed the swear filter) and dragged out games, used obnoxious builds, asked subtly grating questions of my opponents at frustrating moments in the game (for them), cursed, made dick and fart jokes (and perhaps worse), and probably overall caused a lot of butt-hurt. Over a dozen people claimed to have reported me, often amidst further cursing and overt signs that they had become very angry with me. I didn't get banned as a result of any of their actions. Maybe they thought I did get banned, because I suddenly decided to play Dungeon Siege 2 for a week and didn't log on beta. But I was never banned. Am I lucky, or did they not actually ban many people from beta regardless of what they did? I only say "many" instead of "any" because I do know one guy that was actually banned from beta, but god only knows what he did or said to people to earn it. He's the type to drop N-bombs when getting rushed and worse.
What is a dickfour?
Wolf
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)3290 Posts
July 28 2010 07:22 GMT
#47
This is why I'll never queue up for random 2v2s.
Commentatorhttp://twitter.com/proxywolf
TL+ Member
Klogon
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
MURICA15980 Posts
July 28 2010 07:22 GMT
#48
They just want some legitimacy to their ladder. If TL.net was running a 2v2 ladder and you were going off and backstabbing partners, I would ban you too
nitdkim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1264 Posts
July 28 2010 07:24 GMT
#49
just have option of "lock alliances"
PM me if you want random korean images translated.
ExoCorsair
Profile Joined February 2008
United States48 Posts
July 28 2010 07:27 GMT
#50
On July 28 2010 16:24 nitdkim wrote:
just have option of "lock alliances"


That's a good idea. Where'd you get that one from?
Gedrah
Profile Joined February 2010
465 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 07:35:48
July 28 2010 07:34 GMT
#51
On July 28 2010 16:22 Klogon wrote:
They just want some legitimacy to their ladder. If TL.net was running a 2v2 ladder and you were going off and backstabbing partners, I would ban you too


You'd be 100% correct to do it. Again, it's just the fear of false positives that gives me pause here. I get really amped up and sometimes I shoot a bitch. I remember the only 2v2 random game I played I mistakenly target fired a marauder of my teammate and he may as well have left the game at that point, because he utterly stopped trying and completely focused on that event and spent in excess of a minute bitching about it. That could have been 40+ actions even if he was a mediocre player (he was better than I am, up until that happened).

(I almost always a-click instead of right-click...It can happen)
What is a dickfour?
Manbear
Profile Joined August 2008
Canada306 Posts
July 28 2010 07:41 GMT
#52
On July 28 2010 16:01 dybydx wrote:
:p

i suppose u guys didn't read the EULA? what made u think u had "rights"?


This made me laugh really hard as when I read it I pictured I guy from blizzard with a monocle and a suit.
fyyer
Profile Joined February 2010
United States145 Posts
July 28 2010 07:42 GMT
#53
I just wonder how they're going to enforce it. I was playing in a 4v4 and my allies and I were going to all group up on the north side, but one ally at that closest point was terran and wouldn't lower his depots to let me out, so after about 15 seconds of trying to tell him to lower them I destroyed one to get out. Whoever makes the decision what is backstabbing and what isn't better be on his A-game if peoples access is going to be removed. The whole idea sounds bad though if its up to a humans decision.

phlamez
Profile Joined January 2008
United States96 Posts
July 28 2010 07:52 GMT
#54
On July 28 2010 16:42 fyyer wrote:
I just wonder how they're going to enforce it. I was playing in a 4v4 and my allies and I were going to all group up on the north side, but one ally at that closest point was terran and wouldn't lower his depots to let me out, so after about 15 seconds of trying to tell him to lower them I destroyed one to get out. Whoever makes the decision what is backstabbing and what isn't better be on his A-game if peoples access is going to be removed. The whole idea sounds bad though if its up to a humans decision.



You don't need to be on your A-game to recognize what is backstabbing and what isn't, any one of us posting in this thread could easily do the job. It's obviously not backstabbing if you misclick, or if you are destroying a building to prevent being walled in, you obviously are backstabbing if you go and kill your allies base. I'm fairly sure with bans that they will defer to abuse that is beyond a reasonable doubt that the intent is malicious. Also a humans decision on questions like this are much better than any alternative, do you think a computer is able to distinguish between strategic or accidental killing of an allied unit vs a malicious killing out of spite? Blizz employers are oft incompetent but they aren't mentally handicapped, everyone is freaking out over nothing.
fyyer
Profile Joined February 2010
United States145 Posts
July 28 2010 08:06 GMT
#55
On July 28 2010 16:52 phlamez wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2010 16:42 fyyer wrote:
I just wonder how they're going to enforce it. I was playing in a 4v4 and my allies and I were going to all group up on the north side, but one ally at that closest point was terran and wouldn't lower his depots to let me out, so after about 15 seconds of trying to tell him to lower them I destroyed one to get out. Whoever makes the decision what is backstabbing and what isn't better be on his A-game if peoples access is going to be removed. The whole idea sounds bad though if its up to a humans decision.



You don't need to be on your A-game to recognize what is backstabbing and what isn't, any one of us posting in this thread could easily do the job. It's obviously not backstabbing if you misclick, or if you are destroying a building to prevent being walled in, you obviously are backstabbing if you go and kill your allies base. I'm fairly sure with bans that they will defer to abuse that is beyond a reasonable doubt that the intent is malicious. Also a humans decision on questions like this are much better than any alternative, do you think a computer is able to distinguish between strategic or accidental killing of an allied unit vs a malicious killing out of spite? Blizz employers are oft incompetent but they aren't mentally handicapped, everyone is freaking out over nothing.


I can see it getting dirty though. 2 guys get into an arguement and one starts destroying the others base, then the other starts destroying his base. Do you ban both of them? Just the guy that started it? What about the newbie who thinks he's helping his allies out by building in their base while not helping himself and you destroy his shit and tell him to just play normally in his own base? Or the Zerg player who passively backstabs by building a bunch of hatcheries everywhere so you have no room to build (this actually happened to me a few times in beta). Or an arguement over expansions, and one guy turns to destroys his allies expansion because his worker got there first, but didn't have the minerals.

It's not the best examples but you get the point.

Yes obviously if you're in a 4v4 and one guy sits quiet and immediately turns on his 3 allies with 20 BC's it's pretty obvious what you do.

I think there's more potential problems than it fixes.
TheCookie
Profile Joined April 2010
United Arab Emirates34 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 08:11:52
July 28 2010 08:09 GMT
#56
There should be a toggle option ability where the user can toggle on/off whether his teammate(s) can attack his units or not.

/Problem Solved

Edit: Or even specifically select which teammates you allow to attack your own units, for 3v3 and 4v4 matches.
Zerg
Gedrah
Profile Joined February 2010
465 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 08:12:26
July 28 2010 08:11 GMT
#57
Thanks fyyer, I couldn't come up with all those examples off the cuff but there are some good "grey" situations where it's really tough to decide what to do. However I agree that we're freaking out over nothing (to an extent) after reading phlamez' post. It's those very few exceptions where someone lost their key and didn't deserve to that calls into question the whole idea of banning for this reason.

Thecookie, since half the reason to attack your teammate's stuff is when he refuses to lower a depot or builds in your base, requiring his permission to attack his stuff defeats the entire purpose.
What is a dickfour?
Meff
Profile Joined June 2010
Italy287 Posts
July 28 2010 08:16 GMT
#58
I still don't like this stance. I've previously backstabbed in other non-SC games because I got paired up with rude, abusive teammates. And no, reporting is not as enjoyable, not it has guaranteed success - and I don't necessarily want to get a kid banned because they've been obnoxious once (nor I want a single accident to slip, either).

Does anybody know if a ban removes somebody's ability to play single-player, by the way? Or custom with their friends? If so, another reason to dislike Battle-Net 2.0.
SC2Phoenix
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2814 Posts
July 28 2010 08:17 GMT
#59
I see no problem in this...?
Who the fuck has a family of fucking trees? This song is so god damn stupid. Fuck you song, fuck you and your stupid trees. -itmeJP
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
July 28 2010 08:19 GMT
#60
I like this rule. A lot of you guys are just being nostalgic for the sake of being nostalgic. Objectively if Blizzard is capable of avoiding it, backstabbing should have no place on battle.net.
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