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Want some cheese with that whine? [Poll] - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
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FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
July 18 2010 01:27 GMT
#101
I dislike it when cheese is so viable that it becomes a more prominent strategy to cheese than to play what is "standard." It's annoying when every game you're playing is vs something super gay, even if you win. When I win vs something like a tank drop on LT (not saying it's cheese but this play irks me more than anything) for some odd reason I don't feel satisfied (you'd think you'd feed the opposite). It just makes me feel like I was frustrated and managed to survive.
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
July 18 2010 01:31 GMT
#102
it would be nice if you gave a better definition (either in sc1 or sc2, but preferably both) as to what cheesing is. for example, in SC:BW, is 3 hat hydra considered a cheese? In my opinion, it's a timing attack that has it's own strengths and weaknesses, and in many cases can be much weaker than 3 hatch mutalisk. However, there are many people who think that from the number of drones cut, as well as the timing, it is a cheese.
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
Senorcuidado
Profile Joined May 2010
United States700 Posts
July 18 2010 01:45 GMT
#103
I find it fascinating when people cheese you and then brag about it. Like in 2v2 and the ZZ double 6-pools me, and says "easy win against you scrubs". That's just a mystery of science. But I am sick of hearing some of the crazy things people consider to be cheese. I prefer the macro games, but I don't blame somebody for playing creatively once in a while.
Nifarious
Profile Joined March 2010
United States42 Posts
July 18 2010 01:56 GMT
#104
I mean, the obvious complaint is that a weaker player can win by catching the other off guard, but a loss never fixes the winner as superior to the loser. Chance is involved, definitely, but that doesn't make it a game of chance--a rock paper scissors of builds, even if A strat is very good against B but not C. People who think in those terms are just not thinking about the game.
Personally, I rarely 7 pool, but love holding off cheese or early pressure. Sure, it sucks to not have scouted something out and lose to that, but who cares? It was only you who lost. Just man up and work on your scouting and game sense.
Really, anyone who loses a match and complains that you did some sort of cheap strategy or that it was just the map is being a whiney little bitch. If you find that you lose to something, take it as your next challenge. I'm looking at all you terrans who don't like muta ling ;-P.
overlord cuddler
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
July 18 2010 02:05 GMT
#105
it's annoying when u get cheesed, but it's part of the game. it also really helps you to get better with micro and making fast decisions.
3clipse
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Canada2555 Posts
July 18 2010 02:07 GMT
#106
NR20 GUYS KAY?

There's nothing bm about cheese. It's a strategy, not a pylon-heart.
moon`
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States372 Posts
July 18 2010 02:16 GMT
#107
Excessive cheesing is utterly retarded. Using it in a strategical manner, however, is not (such as a forward bunker to punish a FE zerg).
Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like pandabearguy.
Leeto
Profile Joined August 2007
United States1320 Posts
July 18 2010 02:24 GMT
#108
Winning a game against someone who cheeses you is very rewarding. It's like saying "in your face". Especially if you win because of good scouting and well-executed reaction to the info.
NuKedUFirst
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada3139 Posts
July 18 2010 02:25 GMT
#109
I'm an IdrA about it..
T_T I go ballistic and can never stop it. Hate it but it is essential (i never cheese)
FrostedMiniWeet wrote: I like winning because it validates all the bloody time I waste playing SC2.
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
July 18 2010 02:25 GMT
#110
On July 18 2010 10:31 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
it would be nice if you gave a better definition (either in sc1 or sc2, but preferably both) as to what cheesing is. for example, in SC:BW, is 3 hat hydra considered a cheese? In my opinion, it's a timing attack that has it's own strengths and weaknesses, and in many cases can be much weaker than 3 hatch mutalisk. However, there are many people who think that from the number of drones cut, as well as the timing, it is a cheese.


I consider anything with a very slight chance of recovery a cheese. I would consider the 3 Hatch Hydra you described as an all-in push. I would consider a 4/5/6 Pool a Cheese. Also Proxy Cannons/Gates, and very early proxy Raxs are cheeses to me.

I don't see why people consider all-in pushes cheese. Sure, all-in pushes put you behind if you don't win, but you can transition out of them, as you already have the basic structures to tech up or make an army to defend. For example, 4 Warp Gate all-in allows you to transition into an expansion (since you probably put them on the defense) and into Robo Tech or Templar Tech. While a Proxy Cannon Rush leaves you with a Forge. You have to build up from basically nothing.
DITISSPARTA
Profile Joined July 2010
1 Post
July 18 2010 02:28 GMT
#111
idc if people cheese but i think it's fine to be bad mannered if someone chesses you
1a2a3aPro
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada227 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-18 02:35:22
July 18 2010 02:34 GMT
#112
On July 18 2010 11:25 Whole wrote:
Sure, all-in pushes put you behind if you don't win, but you can transition out of them, as you ...


No, you can't. The definition of an "all-in" is you either do a crippling amount of damage or kill your opponent, or you lose. That is why they are called all-ins.

For example, 4-pool is all in. You cannot transition to a midgame (unless you kill all but 3 svs or something silly). A 5-pool, you simply need to do a lot of damage and you can enter an even/ahead mid-game of some kind, IMO 5 pool is not all-in, some may argue it is, but I think they are wrong

edit: changed "damage" to "a lot of damage" in 5 pool description
im a roc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States745 Posts
July 18 2010 02:34 GMT
#113
On July 18 2010 11:25 Whole wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2010 10:31 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
it would be nice if you gave a better definition (either in sc1 or sc2, but preferably both) as to what cheesing is. for example, in SC:BW, is 3 hat hydra considered a cheese? In my opinion, it's a timing attack that has it's own strengths and weaknesses, and in many cases can be much weaker than 3 hatch mutalisk. However, there are many people who think that from the number of drones cut, as well as the timing, it is a cheese.


I consider anything with a very slight chance of recovery a cheese. I would consider the 3 Hatch Hydra you described as an all-in push. I would consider a 4/5/6 Pool a Cheese. Also Proxy Cannons/Gates, and very early proxy Raxs are cheeses to me.

I don't see why people consider all-in pushes cheese. Sure, all-in pushes put you behind if you don't win, but you can transition out of them, as you already have the basic structures to tech up or make an army to defend. For example, 4 Warp Gate all-in allows you to transition into an expansion (since you probably put them on the defense) and into Robo Tech or Templar Tech. While a Proxy Cannon Rush leaves you with a Forge. You have to build up from basically nothing.


I agree with your description mostly. Proxies are almost always cheeses to me, but all ins are still just another high risk high reward strategy that some people use.


On July 18 2010 11:28 DITISSPARTA wrote:
idc if people cheese but i think it's fine to be bad mannered if someone chesses you

This is one of the most hilarious first posts I think I've ever seen.
Beware The Proxy Pool Rush
Zombo Joe
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada850 Posts
July 18 2010 02:36 GMT
#114
Well I just held off a 2 rax proxy and I'm feeling pretty good about it.

Cheese is taken badly when you don't scout. I held the Xel'naga Watchtower and saw many Marines pouring in from the enemy's base. So I Chronoboosted some Stalkers out and eventually pushed to his base where he had to give up as he cut workers to do an all-in cheese.

I can't tolerate the cheese like 6 pools or cannon rushes. But I can tolerate the kind of cheese that doesn't get you behind. Its an essential part of the game but too many bad players use it against others that don't know how to stop it.
I am Terranfying.
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
July 18 2010 02:40 GMT
#115
There have been numerous threads about this topic already.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
NotJack
Profile Joined December 2009
United States737 Posts
July 18 2010 02:51 GMT
#116
I like practicing defending cheeses and have no problem with it, except for how it doesn't make sense that there are people who want to only cheese so they can have a good rank in the beta.
Brutaxilos
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2624 Posts
July 18 2010 02:54 GMT
#117
im okay with it as long as its someone i know, but the thing with quick match cheese, is that they can do it over and over again without people knowing them as a cheeser
Jangbi favorite player. Forever~ CJ herO the King of IEM. BOMBERRRRRRRR. Sexy Boy Rogue. soO #1! Oliveira China Represent!
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
July 18 2010 02:54 GMT
#118
cheese is funny
usually goes like this once i see it
me: really?
*silence* *silence* *silence*
them: hellzya
me: k
xxxx has left the game
You are victorious!
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
ScvReady
Profile Joined May 2010
United States61 Posts
July 18 2010 02:54 GMT
#119
I bm cheesers every time. I mean ill admit i cheesed before but that was back in bronze league and I think it should stay there.
BamBam
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
745 Posts
July 18 2010 03:07 GMT
#120
On July 18 2010 11:54 ScvReady wrote:
I bm cheesers every time. I mean ill admit i cheesed before but that was back in bronze league and I think it should stay there.


Right. Cause I mean, its totally fine to act mannered during a lengthy game where a set amount of specific units are used, but heaven forbid someone decides to do something out of the scope of a "normal" game they should be crucified. I personally think that if someone does a cheese, while still having a long-term plan I would classify said person as being a creative and risky player. Its those who can pull it off time and time again with wins regardless of the result of the cheese are the kinds of players I can respect.

Sadly, not everyone accepts this viewpoint because everyone has their specific plan which relies on their opponent doing something normal (which is defined by those who appear in showmatches and win in tourneys, etc..) but should they not be able to pull it off because their opponent didnt do something they expected all of a sudden its a cheese and that person is a noob instead of the person that lost. I mean, how dare he not follow the obviously set rules of the Starcraft universe.
"two is way better than twice as one" - artosis
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