EPTi love straight up play, back & forth fights trains you so quickly.
Want some cheese with that whine? [Poll] - Page 4
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soullogik
United States1171 Posts
i love straight up play, back & forth fights trains you so quickly. | ||
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cr4ckshot
United States291 Posts
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biteMe
Germany241 Posts
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NadaSound
United States227 Posts
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Omar91
Angola620 Posts
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QueueQueue
Canada1000 Posts
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EliteAzn
United States661 Posts
On July 18 2010 06:53 DefMatrixUltra wrote: Sorry to single you out because there are thousands upon thousands of posts on TL with this sentiment. Why do you care about the guy that is cheesing? Are you interested in his progression as a player? Is he dating your mother? etc. The person you should focus on is yourself. What did you do to make yourself vulnerable to cheese? Why does it anger you when someone pulls off that cheese against you? Is there a weakness in your build timing that you are hoping is not exploited? If you win, do you think "what a stupid piece of shit!" or do you think "well, my build can respond well to this timing"? If you lose, do you think "what a stupid piece of shit!" or do you think "what went wrong in my build or response"? Trying to mystically uncover the motivations of your opponent or making a scapegoat out of them is a huge waste of your time. WELL PUT. For me, I enjoy winning against cheesers, however it limits the amount of "experience" you gain. You don't really "get better" when you play against people who cheese (besides learning how to beat that certain cheese i guess). Of course after each of these games, i go "wtf just happened?" Even funnier is when they leave when their cheese fails, and the game isn't even close to being over. | ||
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SilentCrono
United States1420 Posts
On July 18 2010 05:45 Tabbris wrote: Cheesing was much worst in bw than in sc2. It was like every 4 games someone would cheese. People are alot better in this game for some reason. I just remember i refused 2 cheese when playing starcraft as zerg(12 hatch all the way baby). You had to stop shit like 2 port wraith proxy gate on python..cannon rushes, bunker rushes. proxie barracks. Okey not all of those are cheeses but they were in my eyes! >: (. The only annoying cheese in sc2 is fast marauder in tvp not really cheese. it's not hard to defend against and it isn't all-in | ||
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Mulloy
United States86 Posts
On July 18 2010 06:33 Ghostcom wrote: He was pretty obviously NOT playing random, hoping to get one of 2 races, he was playing random to get an extra advantage when he cheesed and THAT I simply can't respect. Why? How does this harm the community? If you're a one trick pony with each race, how far are you realistically going to get overall? If he's better than that but just chooses to be hyper aggressive like that for whatever reason, more power to him. If all he can do is any one thing, whether it's reaper rush or tank pushes or whatever, he's not going to be a serious concern at any level of play other than maybe a small blip on the ladder radar. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
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happyness
United States2400 Posts
On July 18 2010 07:06 NadaSound wrote: I got cheesed today by a zerg who went for a five pool. My response was "nice" I said this because of the huge risk involved in doing something like that. If I would have gotten by barracks earlier he would have been donezoe, but scine the build I was using calls for a barracks at 13 his cheese paid off very nicely. I just hope that this 5 pool is not his only means of winning, the guy didn't/couldn't even scout me. 5 pool? didn't know that was possible.... I think bliz has already done a good job of getting rid of the worst cheeses, 6 marines plus SCV all-in, proxy cannon rush (though this one is still done occasionally), and the whole canceleed hatchery near base -> creep tumor ->spine crawlers thing. Some complain that things like fast VR's is cheesy, but I just see it as opening with VR's. All it takes to defend against it is an extra queen/marines/stalkers. The only cheeses that still exist IMO are proxy gatway play and 6 pool on short maps. The rest is just complaining. | ||
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raph
United States204 Posts
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Slakter
Sweden1947 Posts
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Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
Besides cheese is different for some people some would say dropping DTs into the back of someones base with no detection is cheesy but I call it good play. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
The only cheeses that still exist IMO are proxy gatway play and 6 pool on short maps. The rest is just complaining. So proxy reaper/marauder rushes are not consider cheese? Cheese has it's place, but to me the main point of it is meant to throw off your opponent when you're in a BO series, and sometimes can give you an easy win to win the series. In ladder I feel cheesing is only hurting you, because you're not becoming a better player with it. You're just doing it for the sake of doing it, and that just shows little skill on your part. People think making a cheese work well is making them a better player, but find just 1 player who can beat the cheese, and he's most likely 100x better than you'll ever be from just cheesing all the time. | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
On July 18 2010 07:06 NadaSound wrote: I got cheesed today by a zerg who went for a five pool. My response was "nice" I said this because of the huge risk involved in doing something like that. If I would have gotten by barracks earlier he would have been donezoe, but scine the build I was using calls for a barracks at 13 his cheese paid off very nicely. I just hope that this 5 pool is not his only means of winning, the guy didn't/couldn't even scout me. barracks at 13 has risk involved in it too! lol 12 is standard. | ||
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ToxNub
Canada805 Posts
It doesn't take any more talent to hold off a cheese than it does to perform one. It doesn't make the game better at all... it just trivializes what would otherwise be a complex game. However, rushes are most definitely an important part of the game. Otherwise, who wouldn't just spam tech and expand? What I don't like is mirorr match cheese. There is no solid defense against a someone with the exact same units as you, but more of them. If, by the time you scout him, he's ahead in unit production, you cannot win in a straight up fight, so basically the game is already over.. On maps with decent chokes you might be able to hold with a smaller force, but if he just rallies his 4gate proxy to your ramp for long enough, eventually you will die. That's simple math. ...Unless you can manage to get a tech advantage in time, which is fairly hard to do if he's serious about his cheese. Maps like scrap station are a prime target for cheese. If a protoss player proxy 4 gates you, your choke is not sufficient to rely on a small number of units, and even with a substantial wall, he will be able to focus down your pylons quite easily. I've scouted players and KNOWN i was being cheesed, and been completely incapable of defending (i might last a few minutes, but eventually i fall), because it was too late. The obvious solution is to start using builds with earlier defense, but it's hard to justify doing that every game on the offchance someone is cheesing you. It is, in essence, a gambling strategy. He gambles that I am one of the players who is not prepared for cheese, and I gamble that he is a player that doesn't cheese. Does gambling have a place in RTS? I'm not sure it does. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
Anyways, anyone that says cheese isn't a legit form of play is probably pissed because he isn't able to adapt to it. Early cheeses are the hardcounter to all the economic builds out there, either adapt or stop whining. IMO nothing you can do ingame is unacceptable, if you win with it, it's legit ^^ | ||
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kar1181
United Kingdom515 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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