I very rarely cheese (unless you consider 1 base speedling baneling in ZvZ cheese) and I don't get cheesed all that often. When players do cheese me, I have a better success rate than against solid play, so I don't mind it.
The possibility of cheese is a necessary part of interesting early game play. Without it, early game would be utterly boring as it would be solely about securing an economic or tech advantage.

TedJustice

Canada1324 Posts

July 17 2010 21:01 GMT

#22

I think too many people are trying to play starcraft as if it's chess or something. But what makes it different is that you don't always know what your opponent is doing. Doing unorthodox things to throw people off and surprise them may not always work against a good player, but it's still exceptionally fun, and when it does work, it's incredibly satisfying. I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

Plus I just love covering the map with cannons. Cannons are like protoss' creep.

Deleted User 61629

1664 Posts

July 17 2010 21:01 GMT

#23

--- Nuked ---

Keitzer

United States2509 Posts

July 17 2010 21:02 GMT

#24

ya, as long as it's not their JOB to cheese.... if their plan is to go 9 base lings into expand, then by all means go for it... or 2 base zealot rush into whatever (sorry, dont know protoss too much), then GO for it...

but when all you know is banshee rush and 6 pool, then stop playing melee games, it's wasting your time

Gerbeeros

101 Posts

July 17 2010 21:04 GMT

#25

Doesnt bother me at all, because scouting is part of the game and scouted cheese gives me some free wins. And its fun to cheese every once in a while =).

P00RKID

United States424 Posts

July 17 2010 21:04 GMT

#26

Complaining about cheese is just about as bad as saying "no rush 15 min" or something like that. It is part of the game, and the point isn't to have a long game and build all the units, but to win.

Jackafur

United States116 Posts

July 17 2010 21:07 GMT

#27

I dont even know why you guys take BM or Cheese so seriously.

zedrOne

France471 Posts

July 17 2010 21:08 GMT

#28

Personally, I cant see why people have such harsh views against cheesing

I personally do not cheese often, but it disgusts me when i see others BM people who cheese.

?.?

Ghostcom

Denmark4782 Posts

July 17 2010 21:09 GMT

#29

I'm fine with cheese, UNLESS it comes from a random player. I think cheese is a very important part of the game, and we all love(d) to see it in BW wondering wheter or not they would pull it off.

But when someone picks random and then cheeses I lose all respect for them.

SC2Pandemic

United States18 Posts

July 17 2010 21:09 GMT

#30

On July 18 2010 06:08 zedrOne wrote:

Show nested quote +

?.?

Yes? Problem, officer?

Mulloy

United States86 Posts

July 17 2010 21:11 GMT

#31

Cheese is what you call things you can't stop. If the tactic works, go for it. If the game is going to last, any "cheese" which is actually game breaking will need to be addressed by Blizzard, everything else needs to be dealt with by the player base. The only actual cheese I've seen in sc2 which would be considered game breaking was the larva staying around on cancelled units. On some maps, that was literally impossible to overcome effectively.

Reapers, cannon rushes, and proxy gates or whatever, can all be overcome. If you personally cannot overcome them, that's not the game's fault.

altairian

United States105 Posts

July 17 2010 21:12 GMT

#32

Cheesing is totally valid strategy. Whether the person is good enough to know how to follow it up with something that will prevent them from dying or even put them in a favorable position is their problem. I like when people try to cheese, it makes for far more interesting games most of the time. And if they do it badly? Free win :D Everybody likes free wins!

Daedie

Belgium160 Posts

July 17 2010 21:12 GMT

#33

On July 18 2010 06:11 Mulloy wrote:
Cheese is what you call things you can't stop.

No it's not: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Cheese

The_Pacifist

United States540 Posts

July 17 2010 21:12 GMT

#34

On July 18 2010 06:09 Ghostcom wrote:
I'm fine with cheese, UNLESS it comes from a random player. I think cheese is a very important part of the game, and we all love(d) to see it in BW wondering wheter or not they would pull it off.

But when someone picks random and then cheeses I lose all respect for them.

Well, I don't lose all respect that way, but it just feels like they chose random and hoped for terran or zerg but got toss and so they immediately decide to cannon rush.

But whatever. Cheese or not, if I lose to it, I can only blame myself.

Brazen[six]

Canada203 Posts

July 17 2010 21:15 GMT

#35

Originally, I despised cheese and it totally made me rage out. However, now in phase 2 and playing diamond opponents I rarely see any cheese. However, I got cheesed with a void ray rush yesterday and while I cursed, aferwards I couldn't help but think that it was a clever idea in the sense that the typical mindset in the high plat-diamond leagues are that you're going to be seeing the 'standard' builds and execution. It's ultimately my fault (poor scouting) of course, but I just hope I'm not giving the player too much credit and he/she doesn't do that EVERY game.

T3tra

United States406 Posts

July 17 2010 21:16 GMT

#36

I don't BM cheese players, but I still hate getting cheesed :p

cocosoft

Sweden1068 Posts

July 17 2010 21:17 GMT

#37

Well I'm not going to vote because cheesing can be a very specific strategy, and you're just putting out a poll about cheesing... Cheese can be anything from 6pool, VoidRay mass to proxy gateway and proxy hatchery+spine crawler .

Also, I myself only cheese on specific matchup which I found frustrating, because I'm not very familar with it... like ZvZ, still trying to find out a cheesy strat against TvT.

Mr.Minionman

United States164 Posts

July 17 2010 21:19 GMT

#38

"Cheesing", as most people call it when they get killed in the early game, is a term thrown around WAY too much. Dark Templars, Ban(cheese), Reapers, etc were all put into the game for the purpose of punishing opponents who rely to heavy on a single strategy. There are very few builds currently that can really be called cheese, and early aggression builds, such as 4gate, 3rax, etc, are all tried and true successful strategies, If you cannot beat it, then why aren't you using it?

Or, more often than not, if you don't have enough units, you should focus more on production in the future, and less on teching to a point that leaves you vulnerable to said cheese i.e. early aggression.

MadZ

Denmark111 Posts

July 17 2010 21:20 GMT

#39

i think its annoying when someone cheese's me, but i dont get mad (only if i loose to it :p)

Mulloy

United States86 Posts

July 17 2010 21:21 GMT

#40

On July 18 2010 06:12 Daedie wrote:

Show nested quote +

No it's not: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Cheese

I still think my point remains valid, but I'm used to the term being applied in a more general sense and/or being interchangeable with cheap. Nevertheless, if the actions taken are not unstoppable, then the sense of unfairness or idea that people should avoid pieces of the game in order to be fair is not something that makes sense in a competitive game. Fairness isn't about some gentleman's agreement. As stated above, people calling cheesing unfair or problematic seem to have the same general argument as people who want a "15 minute no rush" window or something.

Let's say everyone avoided this defined behavior, what would the game benefit? People feeling less compelled to scout and stay on top of things to be aware of the situation of their opponent? How is that good?