EPTHow to improve the Ultralisk - Page 5
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sk`
Japan442 Posts
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hizBALLIN
United States163 Posts
If you're Zerg, and you're against a meching terran, I tend to drop a spire and threaten with mutas so that he ends up making more Thors and less tanks. Then Ultras become much more useful, because while I'm moving his thors out of position with my constant barrage of harrass (I tend to make some corrupters to help deal with whatever vikings he's trying to add, and possibly convince him I'm going for a greater spire), and then barrel into his scant amount of tanks with 3-5 ultras in front of the rest of my army. If that doesn't win outright, it sets him so far back he'll never leave his base. Then I expand all over the map and either starve him out, or win by attrition. The key it to force him not to make tanks. If you're looking for ultras to be an "I win" unit, you need a lead-in to make it somewhat close to that. | ||
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Calamity
Canada161 Posts
But seriously, ultras do fine. Infestors cast fungal on marines and marauders, and the ultralisks just kill them with their mighty claws that do aoe. One thing i'd like to see are ultralisk burrows with zerglings burrow. Infestors are dangerous as well since they can neural parasite underground now and move quickly too. Set up a trap with ultras and zerglings, spring up when the army comes into the circle of doom and surround them :o If they don't come into you're trap, expand like mad :D | ||
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Disp
United States59 Posts
Colossus is Cyber core 50 seconds, Robotics 65, Bay 65 = 180 seconds. Carrier is Cyber Core 50 seconds, Stargate 60, Fleet Beacon 60 = 170 seconds. Thor is Factory 60, Tech lab 25, armory 65 = 150 seconds (really 125 since you can do the tech lab/armory at the same time). Battle Cruiser is Factory 60, Starport 50, Fusion Core 65 = 175 Then look at ultra...Lair is 80, Infestation Pit 50, Hive is 100, Cavern is 65 = 295 seconds. Terran takes 225 gas to get Thor, 350 to get Battle Cruisers, Protoss takes 400 for Colossus, 350 for Carriers, Zerg takes 550 gas for Ultra. So overall Ultras take over 50% longer to tech to than the next closest tier 3 units, and the tech costs almost 75% more gas than most of them. Why does the hive take 100 seconds to get? To "fix" the ultra I think all they really need to do is change the time and gas investment required to get the tech. As a unit it's very powerful, but most games won't even get to the point where you can realistically get them out. Tier 2 Zerg is an absolute gas hog and lings start losing a lot of their effectiveness mid game, making for an almost non-existant window to tech to ultras in most games the Zerg isn't far ahead in. | ||
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Grond
599 Posts
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Reptilia
Chile913 Posts
make the ultralisk a lot smaller reduce their dmg and hp reduce cost to 150-150 | ||
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TheDna
Germany577 Posts
They are also a joke vs Bio specially because of the ridic costs. Legs would be awesome and i like the idea. But lets face it most likely wont happen  | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On July 16 2010 14:34 Disp wrote: As a unit I think Ultras are awesome. What I don't like is what it takes to get them... Colossus is Cyber core 50 seconds, Robotics 65, Bay 65 = 180 seconds. Carrier is Cyber Core 50 seconds, Stargate 60, Fleet Beacon 60 = 170 seconds. Thor is Factory 60, Tech lab 25, armory 65 = 150 seconds (really 125 since you can do the tech lab/armory at the same time). Battle Cruiser is Factory 60, Starport 50, Fusion Core 65 = 175 Then look at ultra...Lair is 80, Infestation Pit 50, Hive is 100, Cavern is 65 = 295 seconds. Terran takes 225 gas to get Thor, 350 to get Battle Cruisers, Protoss takes 400 for Colossus, 350 for Carriers, Zerg takes 550 gas for Ultra. So overall Ultras take over 50% longer to tech to than the next closest tier 3 units, and the tech costs almost 75% more gas than most of them. Why does the hive take 100 seconds to get? To "fix" the ultra I think all they really need to do is change the time and gas investment required to get the tech. As a unit it's very powerful, but most games won't even get to the point where you can realistically get them out. Tier 2 Zerg is an absolute gas hog and lings start losing a lot of their effectiveness mid game, making for an almost non-existant window to tech to ultras in most games the Zerg isn't far ahead in. Sir, I have deciphered your secret code and I quite agree. | ||
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Jehct
New Zealand9115 Posts
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agleed.agleed
Germany110 Posts
the only problem is getting to them. pool->lair->pit->hive->ultra den and then the super long build time for them has got to be the longest tech in the game. this is what really screws up against goods terrans / protoss. If I could have just one or two ultras ready when my opponent does the mid game push, id would be just fine. but without mindlessly fast teching (remember: you will burn most of your gas just for teching to them) this isn't really possible. | ||
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ixi.genocide
United States981 Posts
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willeesmalls
United States477 Posts
And no, sentrystalker do not stop ultralisks, but mass blink stalkers work. Ultras actually beat immortals, colossus, and thor at equal resources and wide open positioning. | ||
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titaniumnuts
United States38 Posts
I think the ultra should be equal speed to a stalker off creep. This would mean that stalkers can't kite without blink, and marauders, being a cheaper unit, can get chased down fairly quickly. Ideally the ultra should be able to close distance to target with a stalker after the stalker getting 1 shot off, and the ultra and the stalker making the next attack at roughly the same time. On creep the ultra should be able to close fast enough to beat the weapon cool down of the stalker and do 1 shot before the stalker, at such a speed that the ultra gets 3 hits in to the stalker's 2 hits. Right now, as I see it, the stalkers are getting in 2 hits before the ultra gets 1, without micro. Changing that should should make ultras pretty good, while allowing the opponent to mitigate this increased speed with unit control. | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On July 17 2010 05:54 titaniumnuts wrote: I think the ultra should be equal speed to a stalker off creep. That is exactly how fast they are right now... | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
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Ouga
Finland645 Posts
Size reduction indeed sounds like a decent change, which should't be considered as buff imo. They may be getting a bit too much stuck behind the armies as it is now. | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
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Philip2110
Scotland798 Posts
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HardcoreBilly
United States222 Posts
On July 16 2010 14:34 Disp wrote: As a unit I think Ultras are awesome. What I don't like is what it takes to get them... Colossus is Cyber core 50 seconds, Robotics 65, Bay 65 = 180 seconds. Carrier is Cyber Core 50 seconds, Stargate 60, Fleet Beacon 60 = 170 seconds. Thor is Factory 60, Tech lab 25, armory 65 = 150 seconds (really 125 since you can do the tech lab/armory at the same time). Battle Cruiser is Factory 60, Starport 50, Fusion Core 65 = 175 Then look at ultra...Lair is 80, Infestation Pit 50, Hive is 100, Cavern is 65 = 295 seconds. Too many posts to cover so I'll just say a couple things: Terran takes 225 gas to get Thor, 350 to get Battle Cruisers, Protoss takes 400 for Colossus, 350 for Carriers, Zerg takes 550 gas for Ultra. So overall Ultras take over 50% longer to tech to than the next closest tier 3 units, and the tech costs almost 75% more gas than most of them. Why does the hive take 100 seconds to get? To "fix" the ultra I think all they really need to do is change the time and gas investment required to get the tech. As a unit it's very powerful, but most games won't even get to the point where you can realistically get them out. Tier 2 Zerg is an absolute gas hog and lings start losing a lot of their effectiveness mid game, making for an almost non-existant window to tech to ultras in most games the Zerg isn't far ahead in. I'm just going to reply to this cause it looks like you made a lot of effort into this post... but I can't even tell if you're serious... There is literally too many holes in your argument and erroneous facts to point out. If anybody wants to tackle it, be my guest. ------------------------------------ -Banelings are useless late game. A ball of pretty much anything can take out most banelings and it just isn't cost efficient. You will never see any good players use banelings after they tech up to Lair, unless its ZvZ, and even that's rare. -The whole "Then why don't you fix the Mothership and Carrier!" argument is so stupid. You're pretty much admitting those units needs change, no matter how minor, even though I think Mothership is somewhat balanced. Not to mention protoss already has an insane unit composition. Zealots, sentries, stalkers, void rays, templars, archons, immortals, and COLOSSUS. What more do you need? Protoss is the jack of all trade and probably master of all (if the Protoss player expands sufficiently anyways). -I'm all for making Ultralisks smaller, have better pathing, have Colossus-like walking, cause as of right now, etc. its too risky. | ||
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HubertFelix
France631 Posts
On July 17 2010 06:57 HardcoreBilly wrote: -Banelings are useless late game. A ball of pretty much anything can take out most banelings and it just isn't cost efficient. You will never see any good players use banelings after they tech up to Lair, unless its ZvZ, and even that's rare. Banelings are not an interresting unit but they are really useful all game long. It clear all marine/zealot/sentries/high templar packs instantly. With a nice flank, a group of ~10 baneling is absolutly deadly. You can destroy drones/scv/probe with it too. | ||
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