EPTsorry to say so, but imo your suggestion is crap.
watch some good z reps and try to learn how to use them properly
How to improve the Ultralisk - Page 2
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sCuMBaG
United Kingdom1144 Posts
sorry to say so, but imo your suggestion is crap. watch some good z reps and try to learn how to use them properly | ||
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starcat
66 Posts
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DocSnyder
Germany137 Posts
On July 16 2010 04:16 HardcoreBilly wrote: I honestly hate all this "its fine. super situational" comments. If you guys watch videos of Idra/Sen/DiMaga etc., they absolutely never go Ultras. It's not merely a coincidence. Its that Ultras are almost in all situations terrible, unless you caught your opponent in a huge blunder, but that almost never happens with good players. Tell me one unit in the zergs arsenal thats not situational,infact there was a thread not long ago here on TL about how zergs missing a vital untis they can always lean on or control the match with,like the protoss templar or the terrans tanks witch are almost always good.Answer there is none..... AS a zerg a usually count on my opponent screwing up somewhere,leaving something undefended or seeing some kinda flow in his play and exploit.Otherwise zerg needs to scout and respond accordingly to the enemy,cause they cant dictate the match like evar.....Its the same with all units,ultra included... | ||
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DocSnyder
Germany137 Posts
If you guys watch videos of Idra/Sen/DiMaga etc., they absolutely never go Ultras. It's not merely a coincidence. Its that Ultras are almost in all situations terrible, unless you caught your opponent in a huge blunder, but that almost never happens with good players. Tell me one unit in the zergs arsenal thats not situational,infact there was a thread not long ago here on TL about how zergs missing a vital untis they can always lean on or control the match with,like the protoss templar or the terrans tanks witch are almost always good.Answer there is none..... AS a zerg a usually count on my opponent screwing up somewhere,leaving something undefended or seeing some kinda flow in his play and exploit.Otherwise zerg needs to scout and respond accordingly to the enemy,cause they cant dictate the match like evar.....Its the same with all units,ultra included... they just need to be smaller. such a silly size No i disagree,i dont want big zerglings | ||
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starcat
66 Posts
On July 16 2010 04:30 DocSnyder wrote: Tell me one unit in the zergs arsenal thats not situational,infact there was a thread not long ago here on TL about how zergs missing a vital untis they can always lean on or control the match with,like the protoss templar or the terrans tanks witch are almost always good.Answer there is none..... AS a zerg a usually count on my opponent screwing up somewhere,leaving something undefended or seeing some kinda flow in his play and exploit.Otherwise zerg needs to scout and respond accordingly to the enemy,cause they cant dictate the match like evar.....Its the same with all units,ultra included... reacting and getting ultras isnt really reasonable due to the time it takes to get them up and running. Instead of devoting minerals and time to teching to ultras id rather upgrade my current army and keep pumping those units. Hoping to get enough ultras out before an enemy pushes is fail, considering they already have it since you scouted it. | ||
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DocSnyder
Germany137 Posts
On July 16 2010 04:33 starcat wrote: reacting and getting ultras isnt really reasonable due to the time it takes to get them up and running. Instead of devoting minerals and time to teching to ultras id rather upgrade my current army and keep pumping those units. Hoping to get enough ultras out before an enemy pushes is fail. Sure but in some cases,say terran mech ,ultras handle that so much better that anything else,no matter the upgrades,numbers or composition.... | ||
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Melt
Switzerland281 Posts
Put you can push the opponent into situations where the Ultra is great and thats the nice thing about Zerg. I find him useful in every matchup when the game enters the later stages and he saved my ass quite some time as an AoE-Tanker. | ||
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JinjoBust
Korea (North)130 Posts
It's a mistake to make judgments on balance from the current beta "pros". They're decent now, but their current level will be laughable even to them in about a year's time. Play the game yourselves and find ways to force the units to work. | ||
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xilaratu
United States233 Posts
The ultralisk is actually quite fine as-is, I believe. At most it could use the ability to attack over a single row of lings without significant micro, but even that might be too much. Ultras are extremely powerful at the moment and giving them a charge is simply too drastic of a change at this point in time. | ||
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Chex
United States87 Posts
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starcat
66 Posts
On July 16 2010 04:36 DocSnyder wrote: Sure but in some cases,say terran mech ,ultras handle that so much better that anything else,no matter the upgrades,numbers or composition.... I agree. Ultras are great against mech. The biggest problem is that once you see mech, you work towards ultras, but you are extremely vulnerable until you get them out. infestor pit+hive+ultra den is very gas heavy, and will definitely hurt your ability to field a decent army in the mid-game. Sure i can pump lings in the meantime, and a few hydras/roaches... but very few. If they push your expos or something, what can you do? If they scan, see ur lack of units or hive/ultra den going up, they will just hit you right then (at least they should). Ultras are really expensive. When am i going to save up all those minerals? Again, holding unit production to save for ultras is extremely risky. What if the terran isnt turtling but is harassing? sitting outside your base? Not only are ultras situational, the trick is finding the time to get them. I think ultras are fine the way they are except they could be a bit smaller. | ||
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Ossian
Sweden88 Posts
against a terran army not so much. This is mostly because of siege tanks, thors, and marauders I think the solution to having ultralisk feel more useful is to give it a semi-immortal ability (cap at 25 or 30 instead of 10 though) this way you don't buff it against the toss army, exception being immortal I guess... but you really only use ultra to break a colossus army so it might still be ok... the main issue though is ultras get melted far too easy vs terran mech and that's the main weakness of it. (notice almost the entire zerg army is weak to terran mech lol). this is the type of situation I feel the ultralisk is meant to handle; breaking heavy fortifications etc. other than that I think carriers need a lot more help than ultralisks | ||
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CruelZeratul
Germany4588 Posts
On July 16 2010 04:26 HardcoreBilly wrote: Like I said, late game, its almost all ranged attackers. Against good players, they will target fire each Overlords as soon as it's within sight. So basically, it's suicidal. Overlords don't exactly have a high HP, and the drops are clunky to say the least. Targetfire with which unit (TvZ)? Thors don't do a lot damage against Overlords und usually there are not too many Marines and it's also doubtful that the Terran has Vikings if the Zerg doesn't play air (if Terran played Vikings Zerg would propably not have teched to Ultras anyway). | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
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Johnny_Vegas
United States239 Posts
Another great use of Ultras is to close out a game that you have a nice resource lead in. In those scenarios you usually aren't so concerned about cost effectiveness, you just want to keep pouring on the pressure while maintaining or increasing your econ advantage. They are also a great way to concentrate some firepower quickly to a specific location. If the terran has most of his forces at location A, and you attack a more lightly defended location B with ALL your forces (speedling/ultra primarily), the terran is usually forced to move his large army to deal with it. By that time you can either have fled, or attempted to engage the terran as he moves into position.If you flee, you can probably restore some of your Ultras by healing with a queen. Ultras also work well for the zerg player that does a good job of spreading creep as they are incredibly mobile in those situations. Finally Ultra are an awesome way to spend your money fast if you've been having a hard time with your macro and have accumulated some cash. A lot of times a terran just can't handle the sudden appearance of even 5 ultra (in addition to your other forces) when he's been fighting muta/ling the rest of the game. | ||
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sacrificetheory
United States98 Posts
It would be nice to be able to afford them and some lings or roaches. So your first 2 or 3 ultra army doesnt get smashed and you just have to keep replenishing a tiny army.. It is flawed. Either you have enough money but too many drones supply making a tiny ultra army... or you dont have enough money making a tiny ultra army with weak support. In the end you will have produced like 10 ultras which is great... but only a few at a time (for those reasons ^) that get slaughtered. Take forever to build too. | ||
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Ossian
Sweden88 Posts
On July 16 2010 04:56 sacrificetheory wrote: Ultras are pretty sweet now. IMO they just need to lower the price. they cost too much to add a nice ling army behind it like you would in scbw. It would be nice to be able to afford them and some lings or roaches. So your first 2 or 3 ultra army doesnt get smashed and you just have to keep replenishing a tiny army.. It is flawed. Either you have enough money but too many drones supply making a tiny ultra army... or you dont have enough money making a tiny ultra army with weak support. In the end you will have produced like 10 ultras which is great... but only a few at a time (for those reasons ^) that get slaughtered. Take forever to build too. I agree with this for sure, they should make the higher tier units more available; simply teching all the way to ultra takes longer than most games last and imo you should at least have a reasonable chance to get to use all of your available tech | ||
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pzea469
United States1520 Posts
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Fumble
156 Posts
I hear suggestions that you should send your ultras in first and crap like that. But man, ppl dont understand the vast amount of situations if you have up to 4 ultras where an ultra can get stuck. I can get 2 ultras to attack the enemy army fine but the other 2 are usually lost in the shuffle. Even in the most open areas, ultras are so big that the first 2 ultras will attack your enemy, but the other 2 ultras will get stuck within your raoches/hydras/zerglings while trying to reposition itself around the other ultras to attack the army. I think a viable solution is to have a charge type attack that doesnt increase the ultra's speed but allows it to push any allied units to the side as it goes towards it's enemy target. The amount of times where i've had even 1 pixel of a particular roach blocking the ultra's path is so frustrating. | ||
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Sephy90
United States1785 Posts
edit: oh and maybe reduce their ridiculous size? i can't believe they haven't already, seeing how they reduced the size of thors | ||
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