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[Poll] Racial Matchup Balance - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
July 15 2010 00:51 GMT
#221
ZvZ is frustrating. A micro war with the less microable unit of the game.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
1egend
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom13 Posts
July 15 2010 01:27 GMT
#222
i believe all 3 races are really balanced right now.
the main reason why zerg users think otherwise is because of the maps (most of beta maps not good for zerg).
so what i think is the 3 races are pretty much there but need way more and better maps for zerg to shine.
Backpack
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1776 Posts
July 15 2010 01:29 GMT
#223
PvP is the worst matchup.

As I stated in the other thread, if one player is stubborn enough to all in zealot rush you, you pretty much have to defend buy going all-in zealots...
"You people need to just generally care a lot less about everything." -Zatic
FlamingTurd
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1059 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-15 01:45:45
July 15 2010 01:44 GMT
#224
Wow after reading through 12 pages of this it is clear that almost every1 readily admits Z is way underpowered vs T and a bit towards P. The only few that disagree are T fanboi's or undercover T players, surprise. Lets see if Blizzard can shovel away that crap they took on Z and help em out a little bit. Would be nice.
Nerf MMMT!!! Liquid`Ret Hwaiting!!!
Gerbeeros
Profile Joined May 2010
101 Posts
July 15 2010 01:45 GMT
#225
I dont play zerg, Id really like to but zvz just looks like pain in the ass (banelings baneling banelings)
I play terran and i dont find tvt too much of a problem, actually tvz is my hardest matchup. Dunno why, since it seems that general consensus is that it should be piece of cake. I usually can get to second base no problem but cant end the game and slowly die out.

TvP is my best match up, i guess since vikings are such a good counter to colossus packed up with mmm. Little back and fourth action usually brings me the victory.

Oh and Im bronze level player XD

MythicalMage
Profile Joined May 2010
1360 Posts
July 15 2010 01:51 GMT
#226
On July 15 2010 10:44 FlamingTurd wrote:
Wow after reading through 12 pages of this it is clear that almost every1 readily admits Z is way underpowered vs T and a bit towards P. The only few that disagree are T fanboi's or undercover T players, surprise. Lets see if Blizzard can shovel away that crap they took on Z and help em out a little bit. Would be nice.

Or, you know, you could have players be creative and overcome powerful enemy units. Back in the early days of the beta, zerg was overpowered cause broodlords were unstoppable. Also, there's a zerg expansion coming soon, and a protoss after that. In other words the game is not done.
FlamingTurd
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1059 Posts
July 15 2010 01:57 GMT
#227
On July 15 2010 10:51 MythicalMage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2010 10:44 FlamingTurd wrote:
Wow after reading through 12 pages of this it is clear that almost every1 readily admits Z is way underpowered vs T and a bit towards P. The only few that disagree are T fanboi's or undercover T players, surprise. Lets see if Blizzard can shovel away that crap they took on Z and help em out a little bit. Would be nice.

Or, you know, you could have players be creative and overcome powerful enemy units. Back in the early days of the beta, zerg was overpowered cause broodlords were unstoppable. Also, there's a zerg expansion coming soon, and a protoss after that. In other words the game is not done.


Lol so what r u saying? We wait for a year until the first expansion comes out and then Z will be balanced? lol. How about through forums like this we let Blizzard know that there are obvious imbalances, sounds much more logical to me. In my diamond league alone there r 7 freakin Terran in top 10 and 2 P, 1 Z.
Nerf MMMT!!! Liquid`Ret Hwaiting!!!
Batch
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden692 Posts
July 15 2010 01:58 GMT
#228
On July 15 2010 10:27 1egend wrote:
i believe all 3 races are really balanced right now.
the main reason why zerg users think otherwise is because of the maps (most of beta maps not good for zerg).
so what i think is the 3 races are pretty much there but need way more and better maps for zerg to shine.

I agree with you that the right maps can make the matchups balanced. But having to rely on a special type of map to get balance is a bad solution. It would be more fun if Blizzard would give every race an ability to use cliffs, closed and open spaces to their advantage so we could experience balance on different looking maps.
1egend
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom13 Posts
July 15 2010 02:14 GMT
#229
On July 15 2010 10:58 Batch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2010 10:27 1egend wrote:
i believe all 3 races are really balanced right now.
the main reason why zerg users think otherwise is because of the maps (most of beta maps not good for zerg).
so what i think is the 3 races are pretty much there but need way more and better maps for zerg to shine.

I agree with you that the right maps can make the matchups balanced. But having to rely on a special type of map to get balance is a bad solution. It would be more fun if Blizzard would give every race an ability to use cliffs, closed and open spaces to their advantage so we could experience balance on different looking maps.



this will make it more balanced but whats most interesting and fun is when each race is more unique.
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
July 15 2010 02:17 GMT
#230
On July 15 2010 11:14 1egend wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2010 10:58 Batch wrote:
On July 15 2010 10:27 1egend wrote:
i believe all 3 races are really balanced right now.
the main reason why zerg users think otherwise is because of the maps (most of beta maps not good for zerg).
so what i think is the 3 races are pretty much there but need way more and better maps for zerg to shine.

I agree with you that the right maps can make the matchups balanced. But having to rely on a special type of map to get balance is a bad solution. It would be more fun if Blizzard would give every race an ability to use cliffs, closed and open spaces to their advantage so we could experience balance on different looking maps.



this will make it more balanced but whats most interesting and fun is when each race is more unique.


There should be differences in how the races use terrain, but there should also be some balance. It's fine if Zerg are never awesome at making use of cliffs or chokes, but it's not cool that they're 100% at a disadvantage in those areas. It should be more like TvP where there are times and situations where each race can possibly have an advantage.
Logo
jamesr12
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1549 Posts
July 15 2010 02:17 GMT
#231
Op should add what is your favorite mirror what is your least favortie mirror
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306479
Acidlineup
Profile Joined April 2010
123 Posts
July 15 2010 02:31 GMT
#232
Since this is a racial balance topic i would like to state my thoughts.
They need to change a lot of numbers with units so we wouldnt get results like 8% thinks zerg is favoured against terran and 72% that terran is favoured against zerg.

Game needs to be balanced on all skill levels not just for pros. wich is very hard to do but i dont think only pro players are their target audience.

There are a lot of QQ topics about specific units and i think this topic is the best place where everyone can state their opinion instead of making 1000 threads about a single unit.

T
marine - fine
Marauder - remove stim ability
reaper - needs a buff and tier 2 upgrade so it can be usefull later in the game (dont know what)
Ghost - make EMP 200/200 110s research at ghost academy
hellion - fine
Siege tank - range reduce to 9 (tier 2, 3 food unit with 13 range? REALLY?)
Thor - increase build time
Viking - reduce range to 8
Medvac - fine
banshee - fine
Raven - increase range of HSM to 8 and make a projectile move faster
Bcruiser - increase build time

P

Zlot - fine
Stalker - fine
Sentry - make forcefield cost 75 energy, hallucination research to 50/50 instead of 100/100
HT - needs a bigger aoe for the price u have to pay to get them than 1.5 (it was 2, revert it back to 2)
DT - fine
Obs - fine
Warprism - fine
Immortal - fine
Colossi - reduce range to 8 but make the upgrade 150/150
Phoenix - that unit needs a price reduction, dont know what
Voidray - i really dont know but they need some change, unit mechanics itself is a problem
Carrier - they need build speed increase to 100 (instead of 120)
Archon - to make it viable as unit (wich is allways good) they need buf in range and aoe.
Mothership - needs speed buff, and some new spells

Z

zergling - fine
bling - fine
roach - fine
hydra - fine
infestor - fine
(insert unit) z needs a tier 2 cloaked unit (roaches and infestor are too slow)
Mutalisk - fine
Corruptor - needs a new spell (something FUN and USEFULL at the same time)
Blord - range reduced to 8
Ultralisk - speed buff
Overseer - needs one more spell

So i think i covered all QQ about units ive seen in topics since the beta started :D
I tried to be objective as i could but just for the record - this is only my opinion so pls no flaming.
tnx
system failure...
Naone
Profile Joined May 2009
Sweden8 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-15 02:42:08
July 15 2010 02:39 GMT
#233
Ok, first post here and hopefully I won't get shot down.
I've been playing Random since early beta phase 1, I was a Protoss player during BW but settled on Random since I wanted to try something new.

My 2 cents about each race is that firstly the Queen is the backbone of the Zerg seriously it's completly redonculous but without it Zerg has little to no chance against the other races.. or maybe they will? I haven't played a single Zerg game without a Queen so that's just my guess.

Warp Gates and chrono boost are also extremly unfair but way cooler than anything else, it makes the strong Protoss army extremly mobile and can pretty easily defend faroff expansion.

Terran has the Reactor (and the mules) which in my eyes is the least unfair macro mechanic but still without it pretty darn it helpless against the other races.

But if you've played the beta this is all things you should know,

In my eyes TvZ is slightly in favour of Terran, where everything hangs on the early game decisions, what Terran does and how Zerg will respond, Zerg should be able to easily outmacro the Terran if they manage to stop the harrass but seeing as how many options the Terran has and how hard it is for the Zerg to stop it I can't say that Zerg is in favour in this matchup.

TvP without Ghosts is P favoured, TvP with Ghosts is T favoured. Ghosts is in no way OP and very healthy for the matchup, though it's extremly hard to stop them and when the Toss army has been EMPd the Protoss is going to get steamrolled unless the army difference is 15+ population I find it extremly hard to pull out a win or lose as Terran.

I personally find ZvP the most fun since I enjoy macro fests where both players have half of the map and most ZvP games I play end up as such, it's also the matchup I find the most even, Protoss controls the early game while it slowly tilts in the favour of Zerg, Zerg lategame is extremly hard to stop as Protoss since Broodlords can win games just by themselves.

My thoughts.
Qwerty.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States292 Posts
July 15 2010 03:10 GMT
#234
Interesting that Zerg is considered the strongest, or at least most played in Asia
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
July 15 2010 03:15 GMT
#235
On July 15 2010 11:31 Acidlineup wrote:
Since this is a racial balance topic i would like to state my thoughts.
They need to change a lot of numbers with units so we wouldnt get results like 8% thinks zerg is favoured against terran and 72% that terran is favoured against zerg.

Game needs to be balanced on all skill levels not just for pros. wich is very hard to do but i dont think only pro players are their target audience.

There are a lot of QQ topics about specific units and i think this topic is the best place where everyone can state their opinion instead of making 1000 threads about a single unit.

T
marine - fine
Marauder - remove stim ability
reaper - needs a buff and tier 2 upgrade so it can be usefull later in the game (dont know what)
Ghost - make EMP 200/200 110s research at ghost academy
hellion - fine
Siege tank - range reduce to 9 (tier 2, 3 food unit with 13 range? REALLY?)
Thor - increase build time
Viking - reduce range to 8
Medvac - fine
banshee - fine
Raven - increase range of HSM to 8 and make a projectile move faster
Bcruiser - increase build time

P

Zlot - fine
Stalker - fine
Sentry - make forcefield cost 75 energy, hallucination research to 50/50 instead of 100/100
HT - needs a bigger aoe for the price u have to pay to get them than 1.5 (it was 2, revert it back to 2)
DT - fine
Obs - fine
Warprism - fine
Immortal - fine
Colossi - reduce range to 8 but make the upgrade 150/150
Phoenix - that unit needs a price reduction, dont know what
Voidray - i really dont know but they need some change, unit mechanics itself is a problem
Carrier - they need build speed increase to 100 (instead of 120)
Archon - to make it viable as unit (wich is allways good) they need buf in range and aoe.
Mothership - needs speed buff, and some new spells

Z

zergling - fine
bling - fine
roach - fine
hydra - fine
infestor - fine
(insert unit) z needs a tier 2 cloaked unit (roaches and infestor are too slow)
Mutalisk - fine
Corruptor - needs a new spell (something FUN and USEFULL at the same time)
Blord - range reduced to 8
Ultralisk - speed buff
Overseer - needs one more spell

So i think i covered all QQ about units ive seen in topics since the beta started :D
I tried to be objective as i could but just for the record - this is only my opinion so pls no flaming.
tnx

Removing tank range would make them utterly useless..they are an ARTILLERY unit having range comparable to most non artillery units(marines ghosts marauders.. etc) would defeat the purpose of them being called a "siege tank"
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
SilentCrono
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1420 Posts
July 15 2010 03:26 GMT
#236
as far as i can tell, TvP is still horrendously imbalanced towards Protoss. other than that, the game is almost perfect
♞ Your soul will forever be lost in the void of a horse. ♞
Acidlineup
Profile Joined April 2010
123 Posts
July 15 2010 03:32 GMT
#237
Removing tank range would make them utterly useless..they are an ARTILLERY unit having range comparable to most non artillery units(marines ghosts marauders.. etc) would defeat the purpose of them being called a "siege tank"


I didnt say removing range, but to make it more reasonable in terms of balance.
Colossi and Broodlords are alien "artillery" as well. U dont see them having range 13 do u? Plus they are tier 3. This a topic about BALANCE, not about what would be realistic in a imaginary SF future/movie/star wars and if u really wanna go there how do u know Colossi dont have a range of 5000 and can shoot down small planets? They are so tall after all...

The idea was to stop zerg to qq about tanks and to make T v T more than viking-tank only spamfest.
system failure...
goswser
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3548 Posts
July 15 2010 03:42 GMT
#238
The biggest problem I can see is fungal growth is completely op against terran bio, its not even slightly viable to go bio because your whole army will be caked in green goo and baneling/ling/muta/whatever will just run over you. Other than that my biggest complaint is that within the next 6 months, give or take a few, TvT is going to be the most completely retarded mu ever, its already really bland and dry and half of the games of high ranked players end up with both players basically massing up 200 supply of units and then whoever has a slightly better unit comp wins.
say you were born into a jungle indian tribe where food was scarce...would you run around from teepee to teepee stealing meat scraps after a day lazying around doing nothing except warming urself by a fire that you didn't even make yourself? -rekrul
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
July 15 2010 03:45 GMT
#239
On July 15 2010 12:32 Acidlineup wrote:
Show nested quote +
Removing tank range would make them utterly useless..they are an ARTILLERY unit having range comparable to most non artillery units(marines ghosts marauders.. etc) would defeat the purpose of them being called a "siege tank"


I didnt say removing range, but to make it more reasonable in terms of balance.
Colossi and Broodlords are alien "artillery" as well. U dont see them having range 13 do u? Plus they are tier 3. This a topic about BALANCE, not about what would be realistic in a imaginary SF future/movie/star wars and if u really wanna go there how do u know Colossi dont have a range of 5000 and can shoot down small planets? They are so tall after all...

The idea was to stop zerg to qq about tanks and to make T v T more than viking-tank only spamfest.

Tank range isn't the problem at all. it's the too-smart tank AI.

implement overkill and fighting against tanks will become much easier with units drawing fire, unit bombing, etc...
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-15 03:57:16
July 15 2010 03:56 GMT
#240
On July 15 2010 12:32 Acidlineup wrote:
Show nested quote +
Removing tank range would make them utterly useless..they are an ARTILLERY unit having range comparable to most non artillery units(marines ghosts marauders.. etc) would defeat the purpose of them being called a "siege tank"


I didnt say removing range, but to make it more reasonable in terms of balance.
Colossi and Broodlords are alien "artillery" as well. U dont see them having range 13 do u? Plus they are tier 3. This a topic about BALANCE, not about what would be realistic in a imaginary SF future/movie/star wars and if u really wanna go there how do u know Colossi dont have a range of 5000 and can shoot down small planets? They are so tall after all...

The idea was to stop zerg to qq about tanks and to make T v T more than viking-tank only spamfest.


No. There is nothing that comes even close to the artillery role of the Siege Tank. It is completely immobile while in this mode. Making its range that small would indeed make it useless due to the set up time plus being immobile. This is a key aspect that you seem to have forgotten.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
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