• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:21
CEST 22:21
KST 05:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)77Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? [Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4) SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
Sagi.gg Launcher Released BW General Discussion SC4ALL II Brood War Complete Invited Player Lineup 20-year-old Valorant player starting StarCraft Bot on ladder
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8021 users

[Poll] Racial Matchup Balance - Page 11

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 16 Next All
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
July 14 2010 19:36 GMT
#201
it truly breaks my heart in pvt when all my high-tech, expensive and fancy shit die to his tier one units. TIER ONE units. marines and marauders. and ghosts' EMP is ridiculous as well. having been a good and competitive brood war player, it just feels so insulting to lose to fucking tier one terran units lol. i'm getting much better at pvp and pvz, but pvt is such a struggle for me right now. just can't beat good terrans...so much versatility.
MythicalMage
Profile Joined May 2010
1360 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-14 19:40:26
July 14 2010 19:39 GMT
#202
On July 15 2010 04:36 OneOther wrote:
it truly breaks my heart in pvt when all my high-tech, expensive and fancy shit die to his tier one units. TIER ONE units. marines and marauders. and ghosts' EMP is ridiculous as well. having been a good and competitive brood war player, it just feels so insulting to lose to fucking tier one terran units lol. i'm getting much better at pvp and pvz, but pvt is such a struggle for me right now. just can't beat good terrans...so much versatility.

Ghost is really more like tier two. Perhaps you're teching too fast?
EDIT: Also, the protoss expansion isn't out yet. You'll get your versatility then.
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
July 14 2010 19:40 GMT
#203
On July 15 2010 04:39 MythicalMage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2010 04:36 OneOther wrote:
it truly breaks my heart in pvt when all my high-tech, expensive and fancy shit die to his tier one units. TIER ONE units. marines and marauders. and ghosts' EMP is ridiculous as well. having been a good and competitive brood war player, it just feels so insulting to lose to fucking tier one terran units lol. i'm getting much better at pvp and pvz, but pvt is such a struggle for me right now. just can't beat good terrans...so much versatility.

Ghost is really more like tier two. Perhaps you're teching too fast?

i was more referring to marines and marauders. it's unbelievable how good they are early game, early-mid game, mid game, mid-late game, and late game. i'm not really teching too fast but my weakness is midgame right now.
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
July 14 2010 19:41 GMT
#204
I think the hardest match up is ZvZ
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
July 14 2010 19:42 GMT
#205
On July 15 2010 00:29 arb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2010 22:44 Duelist wrote:
"I used to play terran, 'cause if they don't fix it, i'm gonna switch over, because terran is just ridiculous right now." by Idra :>

WhiteRa already expressed his concern about critical mass of marauders + medivacs vs protoss.

No one would say TvP is P favored, yet some people say T is favored. I don't know how those that believe everything is balanced and bash on people for thinking things are not there yet, don't get suspicious reading these opinions. What more do they want? Mathematical proof that X race or XvY matchup is imbalanced? That's not going to happen. Imbalances aren't as obvious now as they were, so people can't ask "give me a very hard to beat strat" or for proofs. If someone would be able to prove something like this they should instead be using their great brain for predicting natural disasters or finding the Higgs Boson. The difference in imbalance should, presently, be less than 5-10% between races. At this time polls like this, and opinions of progamers, as well as statistics is what we have to look for.

I agree with what white-ra says here completely, in sc1 tank/vulture with 3-2/3 was the strongest army in the game, but protoss with good control and spell casting(stasis/storm) aswell as mine drags and good zealot cloning could annhilate this push really really easy sometimes.

In SC2 i feel theres no equal to it, a majority of my large battles late game end upw ith terran with half their army left even after ive got off like 4-5-6 storms on it. in sc1 it'd atleast be semi even.

Marauders just have so much fucking life and medivacs can healthem through storm its just ridiculous


Amen to that brother. Add in an emp and sometimes you can't even get off half your storms.
MythicalMage
Profile Joined May 2010
1360 Posts
July 14 2010 19:44 GMT
#206
The game isn't done yet. >.< Starcraft one was HORRIBLY imbalanced. You just got mutalisks and everything died, typically. It wasn't until BW that the game got closed to balance. The same thing is true in SC2. While the game is still pretty damned balanced, there will be two more expansions and everyone has to understand that the game is far from done.
jamesr12
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1549 Posts
July 14 2010 19:48 GMT
#207
On July 15 2010 04:41 Alpina wrote:
I think the hardest match up is ZvZ


yeah i hate zvz
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306479
Batch
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden692 Posts
July 14 2010 20:28 GMT
#208
On July 15 2010 04:30 WeSt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2010 01:52 Azile wrote:
I love how everyone always talks about 'zerg mobility' as some huge advantange.. as if we're still playing SC1.

Go play a few games as zerg. Mobility basically encompasses speedlings and that's it. Everything else is slow off creep and any halfway decent opponent isn't going to let you creep the entire map. Doesn't help that well over half the current map pool is a mass of high/low ground with cliffs everywhere and terrain built to funnel units into chokepoints.

Z 'mobility' in this beta with the current maps is a joke.


Nydus worm. Also zerg is the fastest of all the races with creep. Fact.

I thought that was quite obvious... since Zerg is the only race with creep...
Melt
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland281 Posts
July 14 2010 20:47 GMT
#209
Rework Tank AI...

problem solved.
Azile
Profile Joined March 2010
United States339 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-14 20:56:30
July 14 2010 20:53 GMT
#210
On July 15 2010 04:30 WeSt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2010 01:52 Azile wrote:
I love how everyone always talks about 'zerg mobility' as some huge advantange.. as if we're still playing SC1.

Go play a few games as zerg. Mobility basically encompasses speedlings and that's it. Everything else is slow off creep and any halfway decent opponent isn't going to let you creep the entire map. Doesn't help that well over half the current map pool is a mass of high/low ground with cliffs everywhere and terrain built to funnel units into chokepoints.

Z 'mobility' in this beta with the current maps is a joke.


Nydus worm.


Warp gate. Warp prism. Reaper. Colossus. Hellion.

What's your point?

Melt
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland281 Posts
July 14 2010 21:08 GMT
#211
I feel like Zergs Army as a whole may be the most mobile if you put your creep everywhere and maybe have some nydus networks. You pretty much need your Army as a defense and can't turtle and harrass nearly as good as Terran or even as Protoss.

If you look at stuff like harrassing, dropping, cliff jumping/walking, air to ground harrass and all that good stuff, Zerg doesn't feel mobile at all.

KaiserJohan
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden1808 Posts
July 14 2010 21:36 GMT
#212
On July 15 2010 05:47 Melt wrote:
Rework Tank AI...

problem solved.



QFT. Siege Ai is too good.
England will fight to the last American
sLiniss
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States849 Posts
July 14 2010 21:45 GMT
#213
TvZ T favored by far

This is the only matchup I have a problem with. But there's enough rage on TL so I won't say anything more.
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-14 21:52:13
July 14 2010 21:51 GMT
#214
On July 15 2010 04:44 MythicalMage wrote:
The game isn't done yet. >.< Starcraft one was HORRIBLY imbalanced. You just got mutalisks and everything died, typically. It wasn't until BW that the game got closed to balance. The same thing is true in SC2. While the game is still pretty damned balanced, there will be two more expansions and everyone has to understand that the game is far from done.

edit: nvm, misread!

i agree - and hope - that sc2 will keep on improving as time goes on
imbecile
Profile Joined October 2009
563 Posts
July 14 2010 21:58 GMT
#215
Using polls to determine balance is as stupid using polls to make a medical diagnosis.

There is data available.

If you think maps skew the results, throw out the scewed maps from the data.

If you think player skill skews the result, only use random players in your data.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-14 22:30:49
July 14 2010 22:23 GMT
#216
I think the game is pretty well balanced. I voted for only TvZ being imbalanced (towards T) because it seems like the Z needs to be so much better in order to properly abuse the T.

That said, I still think Z is at a pretty big disadvantage. Through all of my playing, it seems like they really have the weakest army overall - there's really not much short of mass Ultralisks (which isn't exactly economically or tech viable in most situations) that can take on really any army composition from the other two races in the mid-game or late game. The thing that Zerg has going for them is abuse and harassment early game and early mid-game. This means that yea, the match ups are still balanced, but not in the way that I think is good design.

Oh, and I am amazed at just how useless the Roach is now. It seriously boggles my mind.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
DanielD
Profile Joined May 2010
United States192 Posts
July 14 2010 22:54 GMT
#217
On July 15 2010 07:23 Stratos_speAr wrote:
I think the game is pretty well balanced. I voted for only TvZ being imbalanced (towards T) because it seems like the Z needs to be so much better in order to properly abuse the T.

That said, I still think Z is at a pretty big disadvantage. Through all of my playing, it seems like they really have the weakest army overall - there's really not much short of mass Ultralisks (which isn't exactly economically or tech viable in most situations) that can take on really any army composition from the other two races in the mid-game or late game. The thing that Zerg has going for them is abuse and harassment early game and early mid-game. This means that yea, the match ups are still balanced, but not in the way that I think is good design.

Oh, and I am amazed at just how useless the Roach is now. It seriously boggles my mind.


Roach is amazing at absorbing damage all game, can kite early zealot aggression on creep all day long, good vers marines, CHEAP for the hp and armor, can take advantage of lack of detection w/ burrow-move, are purrrty fast on creep once you get the speed upgrade and so are great flankers, and do decent damage assuming you can get them in range.


"Strong people are harder to kill than weak people and more useful in general." - Mark Rippetoe
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
July 14 2010 23:08 GMT
#218
On July 15 2010 07:54 DanielD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2010 07:23 Stratos_speAr wrote:
I think the game is pretty well balanced. I voted for only TvZ being imbalanced (towards T) because it seems like the Z needs to be so much better in order to properly abuse the T.

That said, I still think Z is at a pretty big disadvantage. Through all of my playing, it seems like they really have the weakest army overall - there's really not much short of mass Ultralisks (which isn't exactly economically or tech viable in most situations) that can take on really any army composition from the other two races in the mid-game or late game. The thing that Zerg has going for them is abuse and harassment early game and early mid-game. This means that yea, the match ups are still balanced, but not in the way that I think is good design.

Oh, and I am amazed at just how useless the Roach is now. It seriously boggles my mind.


Roach is amazing at absorbing damage all game, can kite early zealot aggression on creep all day long, good vers marines, CHEAP for the hp and armor, can take advantage of lack of detection w/ burrow-move, are purrrty fast on creep once you get the speed upgrade and so are great flankers, and do decent damage assuming you can get them in range.




The problem is that 1) They are really damn slow and can't Burrow-move until you get the tech, and at that point your opponent can easily counter that, and 2) there is so much anti-armor or just high enough DPS to squash Roaches that I just never find a use for them. I just find Speedlings so much more useful early game.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
ta2
Profile Joined July 2010
125 Posts
July 14 2010 23:22 GMT
#219
TvZ - T massively favoured
TvP - T favoured
PvZ - P slightly favoured

TvZ - siege tanks + thors + MMM = invincibility
TvP - siege tanks + MMM = 90% win
PvZ - very close to fair but maybe larvae should spawn a tiny bit faster. Z is always on the edge of losing to a gateway push.

In PvZ also I think it's a bit unfair how if P goes collossi then Z is forced to respond by making corruptors, there is no other way to win, therefore P is dictating play. On the other hand P typically gets wasted when Z responds with enough corruptors.

Terran simply needs nerf. Why do they have like 5 more units than Z and 2 more units than P?
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-15 00:46:46
July 15 2010 00:46 GMT
#220
I HATE ZvZ. It's the most intense matchups and are decided over minor things. But I hate ZvT more because everything they have owns meh. PvZ is the most fun. I wish for those every time I click on find match.
rip passion
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 16 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 13h 39m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 101
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 15155
Calm 2165
Mini 166
Rush 107
EffOrt 102
Trap 22
scan(afreeca) 17
Bale 13
Dota 2
febbydoto17
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m3416
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King39
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby4087
Liquid`Hasu654
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi1889
Beastyqt814
B2W.Neo568
RotterdaM501
shahzam393
C9.Mang0290
crisheroes186
IndyStarCraft 185
ToD149
Trikslyr96
Dewaltoss67
UpATreeSC60
ZombieGrub33
JuggernautJason17
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream30
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 9
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 30
• Michael_bg 9
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1144
Other Games
• imaqtpie1015
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
13h 39m
INu's Battles
14h 39m
Percival vs SHIN
Zoun vs herO
OSC
16h 39m
OSC
1d 1h
Replay Cast
1d 2h
OSC
2 days
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Patches Events
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Open Qualifier
3 days
BSL Open Qualifier
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
HCC Season 3
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.