EPTBlizzard on Imperfection - Page 5
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prodigy.dts
United States35 Posts
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Storm[PT]
120 Posts
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TLOBrian
United States453 Posts
On June 11 2010 11:59 NicolBolas wrote: Are you sure all of these are problems? 4: Facebook integration is a problem? If you don't like it, don't use it. It's a bonus for people who use Facebook and would like to further integrate that into their life. That's clearly not your generation (nor is it mine), so just ignore it. Battle.Net 2.0 isn't all about what you want. 6: How is that any different from how it is now with SC1? Technically, you always needed permission, and most real tournament organizers ask. All Blizzard is asking you to do is fire off an e-mail. Is that so hard? 7: It may be bad for you, but it does serve a purpose. I imagine most people will enjoy it. 8: They're also hosting the maps. Google gets away with giving people gigabytes of memory for free because they make money on advertising. The more people who use their free memory, the more ad space they sell. Unless you're suggesting that Blizzard spend lots of money hosting maps that they will never see a return on, which makes no financial sense. Or that Blizzard not host at all, which is a return to the anarchy of Battle.Net 1.0. 9: PC Games have had expansions for at least 15 years; calling BS on it now is ridiculous. Some of the problems you suggest are real problems that should be worked out (though they're not going to be by release). Many of them are nonsense. In any case, it seems pretty obvious at this point that none of #1, 2, and 3 are going to happen by release. Blizzard has already gone on record on all of these not being there. They have also gone on record as saying that they will include something that allows people to chat in the future, sometime before the release of the first expansion. Didn't Blizzard state that the e-mail thing was a stop-gap measure that they fully intend to replace? Let's say that 15 million people buy SC2. It's entirely likely that many of them are people with Facebook accounts, and quite a few of them live and breathe Facebook. Now, ask them if they want Facebook integration in SC2 or not. Odds are, they will out number you. SC2 isn't just for people on TeamLiquid. 4. It is a feature that is unneeded, which time could have been spent adding in 1-3. Lets say that 15 million people buy starcraft 2, and some of them they live and breathe [x] product. It still doesn't make it right for blizzard to implement something that clearly isn't useful to playing the actual game. 6. You shouldn't have to. It is an inconvenience to players that have bought the game, play it competitively, support it and spread the word about it to their friends. 7. You're just saying, "Some people will enjoy it." Being in a random division means that you have no idea what your actual standings are in the world, and to competitive players, that is a HUGE deal. 8. They're hosting the maps, so what? If I'm supposed to play 60 dollars plus 20-30 for each expansion, they better host the maps! They'll make plenty of money to cover hosting costs AND line their pockets, which goes to my next point. 9. Yes, they've had expansions in PC games for years, to add content to an original game. The 2 "expansions" that are coming out can't really be called expansions, they're just part 2 and 3. Blizzard is charging us for a whole game for 1/3 of a game, then the rest marked as "expansions." The 3 games that blizzard is releasing is just 1 game, but marketed to get more and more money. I'm not trying to make blizzard look evil, its just the bottom line and how they're moving forward. | ||
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Ronald_McD
Canada807 Posts
On June 11 2010 07:25 exnomendei wrote: No. They think in the long-term. And not because they love us so much but because they're not stupid. They know that a game like Starcraft 2 is a long-term bet, they have two expansions planned, they want to make a game that's good for the simple reason that it'll make them SELL. That's why the quote from page one is so important. They know the game can be better. They acknowledge it. That means that it's in their best interests to fix it. Whatever they do, they do to make the game better, and if you don't want to believe that, I'd hate to be your employee. (not a personal attack here, sorry.) How does putting off solving Bnet2.0's issues help the long term? Releasing Bnet2.0 without chat channels is like releasing an unfinished product. It's not like with Brood War they purposefully left out core features of the game and said "this is good in the long term because we will patch it later." Why should we have to wait another 2 years for an expansion pack that will give us something that should have been there in the first place? I get it that Blizzard doesn't actually "owe" us anything, I do. It's just the way they've reacted to our feedback that kind of bothers me. I'm not just some raving lunatic who hates the shit out of Blizzard. I love Blizzard. I know they're trying to make the game more enjoyable. It's just that we've been telling them from day 1 that Bnet2.0 has issues. And how have they responded to us? They basically suggested to us that we don't want chat channels, LAN, and other features in interviews. - Think about that for a second. They're trying to tell us what we do and do not want, like our opinions don't even matter - They've been constantly asked about chat channels, and every time the just shrug it off and say no. You'd think that months later (the beta started in what, February?) they'd have done a little more than say "okay, we are thinking about fixing some issues". Obviously it's too late for them to cram all the stuff we want in at the last minute, I'm just not very confident that all the issues will be addressed, and if they do it's going to take a very, very long time. | ||
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UnderWorld_Dream
Canada219 Posts
But hey guys, they dont have to aknowledge to everything we ask just because we ask it. They are the epic game creators we liked so much this past decade remember?? Show some more respect damnit. Maybe someone here can set up a server so big that it can handle the whole world connecting to it with no bugs and no latency issues, chatting all over the place across seas while hosting TONS of games simultanustly and provide the most balanced multi-player of all times. And yea set this up without the money the bad evil Activison has. Do it fast, do it right and don't pull a word above the other or i'll just trash you over and over in various threads just for the sake of being unfaithful and pretend I know whats best for a game thats not even v1.0. because HEY, I'm the consumer so I have all the rights to complain over and over. And speaking about money, don't ask me to pay more than I feel this game is worth or i'll be boycotting, rate you as the poorest game ever on amazon and go download the torrent just before realizing that, there is just no better game to play. If I was a Blizzard employee atm, I would be so pissed right now. Working days and nights to release the most anticipated strategy game of all time and it's just never enough and probably will never be good enough for their pretentious standards. IT'S A WORK IN PROGRESS and not an easy task to accomplish at all They have heard our concerns, they will do what they think is the best from now on. Just give the runner a chance. And they heavily deserve that chance. So if you keep complaining for the sake of complainin claiming you are the consumer, don't ever call yourself a Blizzard fan, you are not. As for what they have done with WoW. I totally agree that vanilla WoW was the golden age of wow (BC was not bad also) and they screwed the competitive (as much as wow can be competitive) aspect of the game. Purples almost dropping right from the skies, useless time-consuming achivements, pets, tons of no brainer quests. Yea, they screwed what I liked in wow like many of you. But at the same time they realized WoW could never be a e-sport. They also realized how the chinese and overall asian market can bring huge income if they happen to reach only a mere 1% of total population. So they aimed for the causal players. Let's face it, since WoTLK, wow has became a game for your sister and your kids. Why have they done that? (hint: it's not to buy new cars to their owners) They needed that to substain a whole dev team (probably one of the most expensive team so far) to work on a new game thats gotta be the new e-sport from Blizzard: Starcraft 2. Probably one of their best move imo, and I'll leave the daily no-brainer quests to someone else, I don't give a fuck about Valentine Seasonal Quests anyways, I'm a Starcraft player. (so to an hardcore SC player, this is a win-win situation. You farm the mobs for countless hours or ruin your relation with your GF because of raiding schedule and have your fun, I have my game and have my fun.) Ok this is getting long but I had to let go the rage i'm experiencing these days reading some posts in these threads. It's perfectly fine to tell your concerns. It's totally fine to say the game and the server aint perfect. But it aint ok to bash on them, not okay to judge every single word they say in an interview and it's not okay to say the game and the server totally suck, because it doesnt suck. Patience. Please. | ||
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dogabutila
United States1437 Posts
On June 11 2010 12:57 synapse wrote: Oh Blizzard you're so cute... now give me my chat channels and LAN please. Comparing the beta stages of BW and the beta stages of SCII has little to no merit; Blizzard's first great RTS was Starcraft:BW - they've had 10 years of experience in game balance and design afterwards. Should we expect that SCII look like the result of the 1998 Blizzard or the 2010 Blizzard? SCI was not balanced to begin with, and Battle.net certainly had not reached its fullest capabilities at launch, but that doesn't serve as an excuse for Blizzard to completely ignore the sentiments of half of the gaming community. You missed the point I was trying to make. Blizz will keep working on the game until it becomes what they want, even post release. And actually the first great RTS blizz made was war2. | ||
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v3chr0
United States856 Posts
On June 11 2010 10:21 Subversion wrote: What everyone seems to forget is that there was a BIGGER outcry about Modern Warfare 2, and Activision gave everyone the finger. And then MW2 was one of the bestselling games ever. The hardcore group is a minority - and when it comes to sales, they're better off catering to the casual gamer. I honestly don't think any one can safely assume they do not care about our concerns in terms of Battle.net 2.0, there has been a ton of outcry since the start and things don't happen over night, and nobody but Blizzard knows exactly whats going on and how SC2/B.net 2.0 progress is. For all we know they could have a whole new revamped or atleast updated bnet ready for phase 2, and once again, we have voiced our concerns, I'd rather not be pessimistic about the process, but I guess some choose to, Blizzard hasn't let us down yet, when they do, I'll change my perception. And I'm confident in the community to come up with applications to solve the problems that exist with b.net 2.0, it's sad if it comes to that, but when has this ever shown not to be true with features lacking in a game. If you look at WoW, private developers of addons made Blizzard use those ideas to make UI additions to the game itself, who wants a product where you have to use 30 3rd party applications to get it to function right? I'd say it's only a matter of time before we get what we want, either from Blizzard or from the community. Sooner rather than later is always my preference, as I really can't agree with the logic behind the absence of some B.net features but hopefully it's just delayed for w.e reason. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
i feel rickrolled | ||
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Angra
United States2652 Posts
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artanis2
United States732 Posts
On June 11 2010 07:46 Bosu wrote: However, lan latency while on a lan while connected to battle.net should definitely be implemented. This would be good enough for me. Allow local clients to connect to each other instead of all clients sending their data to bnet. The bnet latency will be absolutely terrible compared to lan. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On June 11 2010 20:06 Angra wrote: Too bad their idea of making the game "perfect" is by tweaking numbers until things are "balanced" and can a-move into each other equally, rather than actually make the game fun, dynamic and interesting. You might have no idea what you are talking about. | ||
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stellarvector
United States32 Posts
Charles | ||
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spaztaz
United States12 Posts
Also consider that Blizzard spends a LOT of time making games GREAT. Look at their catalog of games and point out ANY of them that did not end up being extraordinary games. This game will be no different. | ||
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rS.Sinatra
Canada785 Posts
That's right.. the public relations department is very good at making their customers feel like you are the world to them. I'm not saying Blizzard is a bad company, but a typical response like the one in the OP is very standard response from the public relations comity from quality control in a car industry. | ||
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exnomendei
Netherlands122 Posts
On June 11 2010 23:28 stellarvector wrote: They've already got reliable code for chat channels in BNET 1.0. I seriously doubt that it would be all that hard to just inject the original code into BNET 2.0 and then tweak as necessary. Why does everyone assume that writing code is always from the ground up? Charles Because b.net is different. Player names work differently, the servers run different software, etc. Just saying "I'll put the code from v1 in here!" honestly doesn't work. In theory it could, but would you as a developer be fine with throwing 12-year-old, outdated code from another platform in a new platform? I sincerely doubt it. It's very likely that they switched to a new language in those years, from C to C++ per example (Just a silly example, no hard facts here folks), and really, porting things is sometimes more work than just rewriting it completely. How does putting off solving Bnet2.0's issues help the long term? Releasing Bnet2.0 without chat channels is like releasing an unfinished product. It's not like with Brood War they purposefully left out core features of the game and said "this is good in the long term because we will patch it later." Why should we have to wait another 2 years for an expansion pack that will give us something that should have been there in the first place? I get it that Blizzard doesn't actually "owe" us anything, I do. It's just the way they've reacted to our feedback that kind of bothers me. I'm not just some raving lunatic who hates the shit out of Blizzard. I love Blizzard. I know they're trying to make the game more enjoyable. It's just that we've been telling them from day 1 that Bnet2.0 has issues. And how have they responded to us? They basically suggested to us that we don't want chat channels, LAN, and other features in interviews. - Think about that for a second. They're trying to tell us what we do and do not want, like our opinions don't even matter - They've been constantly asked about chat channels, and every time the just shrug it off and say no. You'd think that months later (the beta started in what, February?) they'd have done a little more than say "okay, we are thinking about fixing some issues". Obviously it's too late for them to cram all the stuff we want in at the last minute, I'm just not very confident that all the issues will be addressed, and if they do it's going to take a very, very long time. Putting off solving issues doesn't help. Realizing late in the development cycle that there are issues (4 months is NOT a long time for a huge game and platform like this) is not ideal. But why do you automatically presume that they're going to wait for two years to fix things? Has Blizzard not fixed lots of UI issues, bugs, and exploits during the beta itself? Have you forgotten how much the UI changed, how the "back" button was implemented after the community asked for it? Their reactions before have not been perfect either. They're not the slickest, most streamlined company in the world when it comes to PR. Statements like the one I started this thread with, however, reveal us one thing: Blizzard is aware. Blizzard isn't sitting in its porcelain chair or swimming in its money. They're working on things. LAN support is an issue that I feel is hard to talk about seriously. We all know the merits of having LAN support. Blizzard gets us, they would love to implement it. But then the game would (and this is a pretty straight-up fact) be pirated much, much more than with the setup they have now. Blizzard had to balance satisfying the professional scene we all know and love and the typical FPS-shooter playing gamer who downloads this game from a Torrent and figures he can play with his friends for free. Fixing all issues in a game as large as this is a task that any development team, of any size, will struggle with. And certainly not do during a live Beta period designed mainly to find glitches, bugs, and balance issues. The release version, I guarantee you, will be smoother, easier to use, and simply "better" than the beta. Sure, not all your (and my) favorite features will be in the game at the start. Maybe some feature will never make it back (though I predict the community outbreak with chat channels will spark something useful) and sure, we'll always be a little upset about that. But I truly doubt, I truly do, that all these problems will remain with us forever. Don't forget. The beta is NOT the gold master. I'm sorry to break it to you.. but you have been PRed... That's right.. the public relations department is very good at making their customers feel like you are the world to them. I'm not saying Blizzard is a bad company, but a typical response like the one in the OP is very standard response from the public relations comity from quality control in a car industry. True, I have been PRed. I however like to think from Blizzard's perspective: Why would they say such things and then not do anything that remotely resembles what they say? I'd gladly call that "shooting my own foot". If Blizzard yells "WE'RE ADDING CHAT CHANNELS" and never does it, will that help them in any way shape or form, or, as I am thinking here, will it completely backfire and make them lose a LOT of support and even straight-up sales? Since I am studying in order to be part of a large corporation some day, I like to think I'm right about at least that aspect. I'd never go out and say "We'll be doing this and that!" unless I was a politician. Blizzard is not evil. Blizzard is a corporation. | ||
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Kermine
Finland33 Posts
I can understand Blizzard not wanting to implement LAN option as keeping "digital property" tightly in your grasp seems to be the industry standard nowdays. However i'm little confused as to why they wouldn't make a chat feature. I simply can't come up with any reason how simply chat feature could cut into company profits(as i've had the impression that profit is the main driving force behind activion and lately blizzard). Could it be - like they said - that they really want to take the shortcut to eliminating the spamming and advertising once and for all. If that is the case i think they are only shooting themselves in the leg. | ||
Chill
Calgary25969 Posts
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
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exnomendei
Netherlands122 Posts
On June 11 2010 23:48 Kermine wrote:I can understand Blizzard not wanting to implement LAN option as keeping "digital property" tightly in your grasp seems to be the industry standard nowdays. However i'm little confused as to why they wouldn't make a chat feature. I simply can't come up with any reason how simply chat feature could cut into company profits(as i've had the impression that profit is the main driving force behind activion and lately blizzard). Could it be - like they said - that they really want to take the shortcut to eliminating the spamming and advertising once and for all. If that is the case i think they are only shooting themselves in the leg. Do you really think they won't add it after the simply MASSIVE amount of response the community has given to the question: "Do you really want chat channels?" I see it on pretty much every forum discussing Starcraft 2, and Blizzard itself has likely been shocked by just how loud the community can get if they say something stupid like that. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On June 11 2010 06:32 exnomendei wrote: Apart from the obvious "never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down" aspect of this post, I'd like to state another obvious thing: ...they are rickrolling us? | ||
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