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This was a response to a random post on the EU Blizzard forums:
Quote (Zhydraris):
Absolutely. The game isn't perfect, Battle.Net isn't perfect. But you know what? We'll try to get there.
And yes, we definitely need you all to get there, with all the feedback you can provide. We'll do our best because we don't want to let you down.
This is an amazing company and it keeps surprising me. Several months ago I tried an unfinished version of one of the localized clients. It was good, indeed. But that was it. Just good.
I recently tried a more polished version of the same client and all I could think was "... Wow, this is amazing". Just when I thought that the localized version was good, I was blown away by the attention to details that was put in that version. And I'm confident that the same thing will happen again and again, at release, at every content patch, and so on.
Just bear with us, because we definitely didn't forget our "Commit to quality" core value.
---- END QUOTE ----
Source
Apart from the obvious "never gonna give you up, never gonna give you down" aspect of this post, I'd like to state another obvious thing:
Blizzard wants to make this game good. Blizzard wants this game to be loved. Blizzard has not been eaten by Activision.
We're all upset because feature x (chat chanels, LAN support, Lurkers, Reavers, Defilers, Scourge, Arbiters, Goliaths, etc.) is not included in the game, but just because they don't have everything from BW doesn't mean the game will fail automatically.
And that's all I have to say about that... (/Forrest Gump)
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Notice they said nothing about chatrooms or anything the community has asked for, he just gives of an anecdotal story about how things are gonna be just GREAT!
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this is totally meaningless after everything said so far
i mean, yeah, its nice, but thats it. there's nothing important in there, just PR. And no amount of PR will save them now.
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Little Less PR and a little more results would go a long way to changing our minds. I definitely am seeing a much different attitude from Blizzard now than I was back when they weren't tied with Activision, so I feel that the burden of proof that they haven't changed is squarely on them.
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On June 11 2010 06:35 avilo wrote:
Notice they said nothing about chatrooms or anything the community has asked for, he just gives of an anecdotal story about how things are gonna be just GREAT!
Can we honestly expect anything different from Blizzard beside greatness? The fact that they are listening to complaints about B.net 2.0 and making changes because of them is enough to have hope.
What good does it do to sulk and cry about what they didn't say, read between the lines, not everything has to be spelled out for you. Inevitably it all ends the same way, they add what we want, and regardless we all continue to love and play the games they create.
Every day there are so many complaints in different forms about Battle.net 2.0;
DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK THEY DON'T KNOW/CARE ABOUT THIS?
Get a clue, honestly, there is a REASON why Blizzard has always come out on top.
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Aren't we still waiting for something that is suposed to help one of our "major concerns" about
bnet 2.0. Game as is Im somewhat okay with. Most of my friends that play have steam anyways
If blizzard actually catered to the masses I don't see why they couldn't get away with charging us
monthly. But if they really do charge /month and don't give something good. People will get mad...
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On June 11 2010 06:35 avilo wrote:
Notice they said nothing about chatrooms or anything the community has asked for, he just gives of an anecdotal story about how things are gonna be just GREAT!
Reminds me of some politicians 
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they say one thing and do another.
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What? The guy says absolutely nothing of any use or relevance and the OP is defending this for some reason.
There is nothing hugely impressive about Bnet 2, not just based on what people want but just in comparison to any other games multiplayer.
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On June 11 2010 06:37 Tropics wrote:
there's nothing important in there, just PR. And no amount of PR will save them now.
This.
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We're all upset because feature x (chat chanels, LAN support, Lurkers, Reavers, Defilers, Scourge, Arbiters, Goliaths, etc.) is not included in the game, but just because they don't have everything from BW doesn't mean the game will fail automatically.
The game is good. The game will probably be patched to be even better. If it never matches BW, really that's okay because BW is something special. But we all know this already and I don't know anybody (although some are probably still out there) who's worried about the game.
But we really would like Blizz to fix Battle.net. And we're used to Blizzard listening to fans (and customers) and getting stuff done that we want. Maybe we're spoiled. But in this case, Blizzard is not showing any intention of fixing the stuff the fans are complaining about.
At this point 95% of us are sold that the game's going to be good, but we'd like to actually be able to play it the way we want to.
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uh could you link to this quote?
Blizzard is not showing any intention of fixing the stuff the fans are complaining about.
At this point int the development cycle it isn't realistic to expect them to implement chat channels before release.
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Battle.net 2.0 is matchmaking and otherwise a boatload of steps backwards. Zhydaris admitting it isn't perfect and then telling some unrelated anecdote doesn't do anything to cheer me up.
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Really there's no point in spelling the doom of Blizzard at this point, nor is there any reason to blindly expect them to deliver all of our wishes. Obviously there's a core set of features missing, and hopefully they will all be there upon phase 2 of the beta or upon launch. There's not really much you can do until we see what Blizzard has planned.
That being said, it'd be nice to hear some specifics for a change, rather than the same vague "it'll be better" message we keep on getting.
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On June 11 2010 06:53 Half wrote:uh could you link to this quote? Show nested quote +Blizzard is not showing any intention of fixing the stuff the fans are complaining about. At this point int the development cycle it isn't realistic to expect them to implement chat channels before release.
This is true but I'm pretty sure the majority of people take it as a really bad joke that no one at Blizzard thought that the community might just want to have the ability to talk to each other.
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I can't believe they had to wait like a week and hype up this reply. Lol.
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On June 11 2010 06:56 GodIsNotHere wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 06:53 Half wrote:uh could you link to this quote? Blizzard is not showing any intention of fixing the stuff the fans are complaining about. At this point int the development cycle it isn't realistic to expect them to implement chat channels before release. This is true but I'm pretty sure the majority of people take it as a really bad joke that no one at Blizzard thought that the community might just want to have the ability to talk to each other.
I agree, which is why this recent outcry has been incredibly beneficial for us. But it still isn't realistic just because we had an outcry that blizzard just poofs up fully working chat channels out of no-where.
On June 11 2010 06:57 KawaiiRice wrote:
I can't believe they had to wait like a week and hype up this reply. Lol.
This wasn't the reply. This was just a normal post lol. It wasn't even on the same forum, this was on EU, bashes post was in NA.
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On June 11 2010 06:57 KawaiiRice wrote:
I can't believe they had to wait like a week and hype up this reply. Lol.
Yah I hope this is not how the "address" they are supposed to give is gonna be.
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On June 11 2010 06:54 Scorch wrote:
Battle.net 2.0 is matchmaking and otherwise a boatload of steps backwards. Zhydaris admitting it isn't perfect and then telling some unrelated anecdote doesn't do anything to cheer me up.
I think Blizzard admitting that something is wrong is incredibly important. Most companies don't admit that something is wrong until next year's version (FIFA 2011!) has been announced, so yes, I consider this very very important.
Battle.net wasn't great either when SC just came out. B.net became good through updates and patches. B.net is not the holy grail either, there are also flaws with it, as there are flaws with Iccup and indeed ANY online multiplayer experience.
The fact that Blizzard is stating that they will change this should, at the very least, give us hope (in the simplest sense) that something will change for the better. And don't forget, we all played a beta game.
See you on release day!
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oh ok
it'll still be the same when they do give a reply tho so whatever I'll treat this quote as if it were their address
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On June 11 2010 06:49 Musoeun wrote:Show nested quote +We're all upset because feature x (chat chanels, LAN support, Lurkers, Reavers, Defilers, Scourge, Arbiters, Goliaths, etc.) is not included in the game, but just because they don't have everything from BW doesn't mean the game will fail automatically. The game is good. The game will probably be patched to be even better. If it never matches BW, really that's okay because BW is something special. But we all know this already and I don't know anybody (although some are probably still out there) who's worried about the game. But we really would like Blizz to fix Battle.net. And we're used to Blizzard listening to fans (and customers) and getting stuff done that we want. Maybe we're spoiled. But in this case, Blizzard is not showing any intention of fixing the stuff the fans are complaining about. At this point 95% of us are sold that the game's going to be good, but we'd like to actually be able to play it the way we want to.
Let us please not act like we know everything (for that matter, anything) that Blizzard is doing. They are constantly developing, testing, creating new things to be implement and just because we don't see it immediately, doesn't mean we'll eventually get what we want.
We might not get straight up chat channels right away, but, knowing Blizzard, they will give us a compromise that is just as good, if not better.
We need to stop with all of this instant gratification bullshit that society demands today, and let Blizzard do their job. Constructive feedback is good, but I rarely see that, at least in Blizzards direction.
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On a serious note, I can confirm you that Phase Two will start in several weeks, but we will disclose more information about the detailed plan of Phase Two as we get closer to it, don't worry, just follow these forums! Edit: "Several weeks" meaning "Being of a number more than two or three but not many" 
Actually this blue quote makes more happy though. I'm all for some semi-genuine dialogue between the community and blues, but this is way better.
The fact that a detailed plan needs to exist implies several core changes in functionality, and core changes in functionality most likely points towards changes in b-net.
And changes in b-net make me a happy camper. It doesn't have to be chat channels right noaw, any change is good change at this point, it can't really suck any more :p.
That is unless that change is "Now includes twitter integration" -_-.
Let us please not act like we know everything (for that matter, anything) that Blizzard is doing. They are constantly developing, testing, creating new things to be implement and just because we don't see it immediately, doesn't mean we'll eventually get what we want.
Where theirs your problem.
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On June 11 2010 07:01 ryanAnger wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 06:49 Musoeun wrote:We're all upset because feature x (chat chanels, LAN support, Lurkers, Reavers, Defilers, Scourge, Arbiters, Goliaths, etc.) is not included in the game, but just because they don't have everything from BW doesn't mean the game will fail automatically. The game is good. The game will probably be patched to be even better. If it never matches BW, really that's okay because BW is something special. But we all know this already and I don't know anybody (although some are probably still out there) who's worried about the game. But we really would like Blizz to fix Battle.net. And we're used to Blizzard listening to fans (and customers) and getting stuff done that we want. Maybe we're spoiled. But in this case, Blizzard is not showing any intention of fixing the stuff the fans are complaining about. At this point 95% of us are sold that the game's going to be good, but we'd like to actually be able to play it the way we want to. Let us please not act like we know everything (for that matter, anything) that Blizzard is doing. They are constantly developing, testing, creating new things to be implement and just because we don't see it immediately, doesn't mean we'll eventually get what we want. We might not get straight up chat channels right away, but, knowing Blizzard, they will give us a compromise that is just as good, if not better. We need to stop with all of this instant gratification bullshit that society demands today, and let Blizzard do their job. Constructive feedback is good, but I rarely see that, at least in Blizzards direction.
I totally agree. It saddens me how gamers have become consumers that "want everything now and also this other thing!" if you know what I mean -.-
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On June 11 2010 06:56 GodIsNotHere wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 06:53 Half wrote:uh could you link to this quote? Blizzard is not showing any intention of fixing the stuff the fans are complaining about. At this point int the development cycle it isn't realistic to expect them to implement chat channels before release. This is true but I'm pretty sure the majority of people take it as a really bad joke that no one at Blizzard thought that the community might just want to have the ability to talk to each other.
i dont know, mby they had some statistic how much the chat is used?
i for examle havent been using the chat since years, having all my ppl in irc and more importantly teamspeak made it so 98 to actually type if u can SPEAK instead
mby they took their sc and wc3 bnet data and noticed that the majority just dont use chat that much?
but ofc even then i cant understand whats the deal to put chat into bnet 2.0, even if it only used by a minority, its not a 4th race afterall
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On June 11 2010 07:04 clickrush wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 07:01 ryanAnger wrote:On June 11 2010 06:49 Musoeun wrote:We're all upset because feature x (chat chanels, LAN support, Lurkers, Reavers, Defilers, Scourge, Arbiters, Goliaths, etc.) is not included in the game, but just because they don't have everything from BW doesn't mean the game will fail automatically. The game is good. The game will probably be patched to be even better. If it never matches BW, really that's okay because BW is something special. But we all know this already and I don't know anybody (although some are probably still out there) who's worried about the game. But we really would like Blizz to fix Battle.net. And we're used to Blizzard listening to fans (and customers) and getting stuff done that we want. Maybe we're spoiled. But in this case, Blizzard is not showing any intention of fixing the stuff the fans are complaining about. At this point 95% of us are sold that the game's going to be good, but we'd like to actually be able to play it the way we want to. Let us please not act like we know everything (for that matter, anything) that Blizzard is doing. They are constantly developing, testing, creating new things to be implement and just because we don't see it immediately, doesn't mean we'll eventually get what we want. We might not get straight up chat channels right away, but, knowing Blizzard, they will give us a compromise that is just as good, if not better. We need to stop with all of this instant gratification bullshit that society demands today, and let Blizzard do their job. Constructive feedback is good, but I rarely see that, at least in Blizzards direction. I totally agree. It saddens me how gamers have become consumers that "want everything now and also this other thing!" if you know what I mean -.-
Your partially right, but gamers have every bit to be outraged when a crucial feature is expectantly dropped and not expected to be released until several months after release in a drastically changed form, especially when "change" in this medium more often then not means "dumbed down".
Theirs too sides of every issue. Sure you have the knee jerkers who are incapable of higher process thinking but you also have people who would most likely buy a load of dogshit if it was packaged neatly and had their brand name of choice. (Not accusing you of that).
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Yes yes this is all nice and merry
But they're being so vague with these little "promises"
They haven't been specific about any of the things they're going to "fix". Nothing about chat channels (HOW FUCKING HARD WOULD IT BE?), no intentions of removing the crappy Division system/no universal ladder ranking to see who truly is the best player in the world, no mention of cross-server play, not a single hint of LAN/offline multiplayer play.
Blizzard has spit back in our faces time and time again. In recent interviews they're basically just saying "Yeah, we know you want chat channels, LAN, etc. but we really don't care because you know you'll buy the game anyways. gg Blizz fans"
Until they specifically address at least one of these issues (for me chat channels is the biggest one), I refuse to believe they're actually going to "fix" anything. For all we know, they'll just throw another crappy substitution like Facebook integration and say "here guys, this fixes everything!"
edit:
On June 11 2010 07:04 clickrush wrote:
It saddens me how gamers have become consumers that "want everything now and also this other thing!" if you know what I mean -.-
This would be a little different if Blizzard would at least live up to their own standard they set with a game they made 11 years ago.
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Well to be honest just because you are #1 in the ladder out of everyone doesn't mean your the best player  .
I have faith in blizzard I just don't see them ignoring everything we have said so far and if not well at least the game is good and blizzard will just lose respect and will have to work hard to get that back Raging about it and all that isn't going to fix the problem let alone will blizzard pay attention when you act like a spoiled little kid they don't' take posts like that seriously which I don't blame them for. Its hard to make everyone happy even if they did have LAN/Chat rooms there would still be a bunch of people complaining about something else.
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On June 11 2010 07:14 blade55555 wrote:Well to be honest just because you are #1 in the ladder out of everyone doesn't mean your the best player . I have faith in blizzard I just don't see them ignoring everything we have said so far and if not well at least the game is good and blizzard will just lose respect and will have to work hard to get that back Raging about it and all that isn't going to fix the problem let alone will blizzard pay attention when you act like a spoiled little kid they don't' take posts like that seriously which I don't blame them for. Its hard to make everyone happy even if they did have LAN/Chat rooms there would still be a bunch of people complaining about something else.
True, but it's a very good measure.
If they just put chat channels in, I would be happy enough to stop complaining. I can't say that's the same for everybody, but that's the biggest red flag for me.
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On June 11 2010 06:49 soverRR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 06:37 Tropics wrote:
there's nothing important in there, just PR. And no amount of PR will save them now. This.
This is what is obvious to any pair of unbiased eyes. But hopefully there is some dimple of truth in that Blizz employee's statement.
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On June 11 2010 07:10 Ronald_McD wrote:
Yes yes this is all nice and merry
But they're being so vague with these little "promises"
They haven't been specific about any of the things they're going to "fix". Nothing about chat channels (HOW FUCKING HARD WOULD IT BE?), no intentions of removing the crappy Division system/no universal ladder ranking to see who truly is the best player in the world, no mention of cross-server play, not a single hint of LAN/offline multiplayer play.
Blizzard has spit back in our faces time and time again. In recent interviews they're basically just saying "Yeah, we know you want chat channels, LAN, etc. but we really don't care because you know you'll buy the game anyways. gg Blizz fans"
Until they specifically address at least one of these issues (for me chat channels is the biggest one), I refuse to believe they're actually going to "fix" anything. For all we know, they'll just throw another crappy substitution like Facebook integration and say "here guys, this fixes everything!"
Let's think a little more objectively instead of screaming HOW HARD CAN IT BE?!
Is Blizzard stupid?
Has Blizzard ever thought of the short term?
Has Blizzard ever thought "Oh this might be sloppy, but we're Blizzard, they buy our stuff anyways"?
Or has Blizzard been the single most long-term-thinking company in pretty much the entire industry? Has Blizzard not released patches for Starcraft in the last few years?
No. They think in the long-term. And not because they love us so much but because they're not stupid. They know that a game like Starcraft 2 is a long-term bet, they have two expansions planned, they want to make a game that's good for the simple reason that it'll make them SELL.
That's why the quote from page one is so important. They know the game can be better. They acknowledge it. That means that it's in their best interests to fix it. Whatever they do, they do to make the game better, and if you don't want to believe that, I'd hate to be your employee. (not a personal attack here, sorry.)
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The guy quoted by OP did a good thing. Everyone talks about Blizzard as if they are this entity in and of itself and forget it is really just a collection of people, many just like you and me. They make money, they work hard -- they screw some stuff up they get some right too.
I do think OP is a bit silly, as the title is somewhat anti-climactic. This is a nice note, but not really a major announcement or even direct response to some of the more topical criticism.
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At the end of it all :
Haters are going to hate no matter what
Lovers are going to love no matter what
Whiners are going to whine no matter what
My personal opinion(for the thousand't time)-> As blattle.net 1.0 was majorly crappy at the beginning and still has serious flaws (despite what some people lead you to believe) it will be the same way in the beginning of a new system. Blizzard has set a goal for themselves to try to please everyone and that (quite apparently) is realy hard to do and will take some time. I love the game itself and think it will meet or surpass it's predecessor as a competitive esport and will be patient as new features and improvements will surely come with patches and the expansions.
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On June 11 2010 07:10 Ronald_McD wrote:Yes yes this is all nice and merry But they're being so vague with these little "promises" They haven't been specific about any of the things they're going to "fix". Nothing about chat channels (HOW FUCKING HARD WOULD IT BE?), no intentions of removing the crappy Division system/no universal ladder ranking to see who truly is the best player in the world, no mention of cross-server play, not a single hint of LAN/offline multiplayer play. Blizzard has spit back in our faces time and time again. In recent interviews they're basically just saying "Yeah, we know you want chat channels, LAN, etc. but we really don't care because you know you'll buy the game anyways. gg Blizz fans"
Until they specifically address at least one of these issues (for me chat channels is the biggest one), I refuse to believe they're actually going to "fix" anything. For all we know, they'll just throw another crappy substitution like Facebook integration and say "here guys, this fixes everything!"edit: Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 07:04 clickrush wrote:
It saddens me how gamers have become consumers that "want everything now and also this other thing!" if you know what I mean -.- This would be a little different if Blizzard would at least live up to their own standard they set with a game they made 11 years ago.
You're devoured by your Blizzard anger. (You're not the only one... sadly)
Stay objective, try not to see the devil in everything coming from Blizzard. In the end I doubt you really wanna hate this one company so much.
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I understand the lack of offline play. Piracy is a serious problem and they have every right to require people to be connected to the internet to play. Although I am sure it will be bypassed quickly I still don't care. Every lan I have been to has had an internet connection. However, lan latency while on a lan while connected to battle.net should definitely be implemented.
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On June 11 2010 07:00 exnomendei wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 06:54 Scorch wrote:
Battle.net 2.0 is matchmaking and otherwise a boatload of steps backwards. Zhydaris admitting it isn't perfect and then telling some unrelated anecdote doesn't do anything to cheer me up. Battle.net wasn't great either when SC just came out. B.net became good through updates and patches.
Well, this isn't a game. This is their goddamn platform. Why would Blizzard take something that had all these features, and remove it all only to patch it back to being normal again.
Bnet 1.0 should have been the BASE of what Bnet 2.0 should have been, but then they fucked up.
Your comment makes no logical sense
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Blizzard aren't stupid enough to not put chatrooms in their games. They know what people want and they won't risk ignoring peoples demands. Blizzard are the best game company, they have plenty of money to do whatever they wanted. People are forgetting that the game is in beta. I wouldn't be surprised if the beta was re-released with LAN support and chat rooms, because these are essential for Starcraft. They know it, the players know it, the players want it, blizzard have always satisfied players... put it all together and what do you get???
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Has Blizzard actually done something with SC2 that's not due to WoW players crying about how imba a certain unit is?
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On June 11 2010 07:56 beakermimi wrote:
Blizzard aren't stupid enough to not put chatrooms in their games. They know what people want and they won't risk ignoring peoples demands. Blizzard are the best game company, they have plenty of money to do whatever they wanted. People are forgetting that the game is in beta. I wouldn't be surprised if the beta was re-released with LAN support and chat rooms, because these are essential for Starcraft. They know it, the players know it, the players want it, blizzard have always satisfied players... put it all together and what do you get???
Except...
http://investor.activision.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=279372
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no question, bnet 2.0 will have all of the requested features and more eventually (except lan)
... available through microtransactions
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i hate how blizzard optimists seem to put being in brood war as a bad thing.
there argument is such that, just because it was in brood war, it doesn't have to be in SC2.
and although you are free to point out the flaw that i am not 100% quoting an am rather paraphrasing but id like to put across the point that its not because it was in brood war and we want our beloved back. its because they are very good features. pour example chat channels, chat channels were great in brood war and served what they needed to do, they could get a little bit spammy but they served there purpose, now compare it too blizzards battle.net, Facebook integration, i cannot say whether or not this service is serving its purpose because as far as i can tell, it serves no discernible one.
there is plenty of things from brood war we don't and we just think its wrong not too learn from the only other experience we have with starcraft games, in regards to improving this one.
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Well, this isn't a game. This is their goddamn platform. Why would Blizzard take something that had all these features, and remove it all only to patch it back to being normal again.
Bnet 1.0 should have been the BASE of what Bnet 2.0 should have been, but then they fucked up.
Your comment makes no logical sense
Because they had to rewrite things. Because B.net 2.0 is a new project.
It's like Windows 98 and Windows XP (or 2000 vs. ME is you prefer I guess), things didn't work perfectly at first with Windows XP, but then when applications (features) were ported, and features were worked out properly, and people started adjusting, Windows XP became better and better. The same with Windows Vista (it was very bad at first but became good just before 7 came out), and it will be the same with everything that is more than a simple features update.
Making things takes time. Making things well takes much more time. Finding out late in development that a feature you thought you had replaced is very much wanted by users (chat channels) means you can't just 'throw it in there and then', no matter how many users whine and complain that their feature isn't in there.
Do you think Blizzard will not add chat channels? After all the whine and complaints on various forums?
Saying "but then they fucked up" isn't really bolstering your argument here. Blizzard might have made a mistake, hell, I think they do, but they didn't fuck up. They made a good game. B.net 2.0 is good, especially for a beta. The release version will be much better. Jumping (or even reaching for) to conclusions right now is way, way too early.
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United States47024 Posts
I think a lot of people are angry because they are assuming this is the "comprehensive address" that Blizzard promised. This:
On June 11 2010 06:58 Half wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 06:57 KawaiiRice wrote:
I can't believe they had to wait like a week and hype up this reply. Lol. This wasn't the reply. This was just a normal post lol. It wasn't even on the same forum, this was on EU, bashes post was in NA.
...needs to be reiterated.
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I'm starting to think that this forum would be ten times better if we forgot that Blizzard existed and thought that SC2 was made by RTS Creation Engine II.
This is starting to become religious, people are just taking one side or the other and refusing to budge on anything.
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these recent "hey guys, look blizzard loves you" anecdotes are all from Vllizard employees it seems
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People are naturally inclined to accept anecdotes in lieu of real solutions.
For some of the americans/canadians in the thread, I would ask you to remember a show that ran on ABC called Undercover Boss where each episode would end in the tears of the executive as they realized how ****y they treated their workers (making them pee in cans, ignoring family illnesses, giving them <2 weeks paid vacation a year) and would solve a few cases and people fricken loved it.
That show did nothing to solve the causes of the problems and a few forum posts will not be enough to convince me that the things I have seen are not indicative of reality.
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blizzard haters be on the prowl. bnet 2.0 isn't perfect, but some of you "zomg corporate activision be ruinin my games" are just complainers.
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On June 11 2010 07:56 beakermimi wrote:
Blizzard aren't stupid enough to not put chatrooms in their games. They know what people want and they won't risk ignoring peoples demands. Blizzard are the best game company, they have plenty of money to do whatever they wanted. People are forgetting that the game is in beta. I wouldn't be surprised if the beta was re-released with LAN support and chat rooms, because these are essential for Starcraft. They know it, the players know it, the players want it, blizzard have always satisfied players... put it all together and what do you get???
Blizzard always satisfied the players? It's not like i think Blizzard is evil or anything, they are a great company but do you know how they killed WoW Open PvP and basically turned the whole pvp system into a big joke? Arena lol. They look to make the most profit.
All they did care about was making the game easier for the dumb players. From Expansion to Expansion it got worse and worse. Can't blame them though thats how a company works, still i was disappointed. What about rating BGs btw, are they still working on it like they said 3 years ago? Im not up to date with warcraft.
So yea I definately can't agree with you.
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I don't understand what my reaction to this is supposed to be. 'Aww, that's sweet'?
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On June 11 2010 07:23 ccdnl wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 06:49 soverRR wrote:On June 11 2010 06:37 Tropics wrote:
there's nothing important in there, just PR. And no amount of PR will save them now. This. This is what is obvious to any pair of unbiased eyes. But hopefully there is some dimple of truth in that Blizz employee's statement.
Of course its PR, thats her fucking job. That doesn't mean she has to be lying.
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Osaka27148 Posts
Bolding, capitalizing, and italicizing curse words doesn't make your post any better. Just a heads up.
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[QUOTE]On June 11 2010 06:40 v3chr0 wrote:
[QUOTE]On June 11 2010 06:35 avilo wrote:
Every day there are so many complaints in different forms about Battle.net 2.0;
DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK THEY DON'T KNOW/CARE ABOUT THIS?
Get a clue, honestly, there is a REASON why Blizzard has always come out on top.[/QUOTE]
"Do you really want chat channels?"
Yeah, I think they don't care very much man.
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On June 11 2010 06:49 Musoeun wrote:
But we really would like Blizz to fix Battle.net. And we're used to Blizzard listening to fans (and customers) and getting stuff done that we want. Maybe we're spoiled. But in this case, Blizzard is not showing any intention of fixing the stuff the fans are complaining about.
Don't see how you can say this seeing as Beta is currently down, and that dramatic client changes like the ones we've asked for don't just happen overnight. If they don't show any steps after Beta goes back up then I'd say this is a valid point.
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On June 11 2010 06:40 v3chr0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 06:35 avilo wrote:
Notice they said nothing about chatrooms or anything the community has asked for, he just gives of an anecdotal story about how things are gonna be just GREAT! Can we honestly expect anything different from Blizzard beside greatness? The fact that they are listening to complaints about B.net 2.0 and making changes because of them is enough to have hope. What good does it do to sulk and cry about what they didn't say, read between the lines, not everything has to be spelled out for you. Inevitably it all ends the same way, they add what we want, and regardless we all continue to love and play the games they create. Every day there are so many complaints in different forms about Battle.net 2.0; DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK THEY DON'T KNOW/CARE ABOUT THIS? Get a clue, honestly, there is a REASON why Blizzard has always come out on top.
What did they change about Bnet 2.0? NOTHING. They're just listening thats just it no comments or anything just "Oh just take our word for it. We made a lot of very good game, we know what we are doing."
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A little less conversation a little more action pls
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I wouldn't care so much if they just told us that they were working on adding the features that the community wanted, but on some issues they straight up said "No, we're not doing that." This is what I think pisses most people off.
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On June 11 2010 09:15 -Desu- wrote:
A little less conversation a little more action pls
And before this post the consensus was "WE DEMAND A RESPONSE FROM BLIZZ." One step at a time. How has blizz flooded us with conversation? This is the FIRST response we've gotten.
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Do you guys think that Blizzard coders are jesus christ dinosaur velicoraptor or something? It takes time to develop things fyi.
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they serve you the same old activision corporate bullshit and you guys lap it up like thirsty dogs
pure horse shit
battle.net 2.0 will go down in history as a massive failure.
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Canada5155 Posts
Contrary to popular belief, Blizzard is not solely making Starcraft for Teamliquid or the eSports scene.
Perrrrrhaps they're accommodating larger groups of users who, say for example, like facebook.
Game design, development, and publishing can often be a business first and an art second. Of course, ranking them in this manner is really ignoring the balance achieved; there are occasions when artistic risks are made, but these are not done without doing a little corporate calculus. Regardless, let's not forget that in the grand scheme of things, no matter how large we think competitive gaming and esports are, we're still a niche.
Thankfully we're quite the vocal niche.
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On June 11 2010 09:49 Mentat wrote:
they serve you the same old activision corporate bullshit and you guys lap it up like thirsty dogs
pure horse shit
battle.net 2.0 will go down in history as a massive failure.
You are so BORING. Jeez.
Seriously, do you not realize that you're more a sheep than anyone who's actually thoughtful about this? You're just another boring naysayer raring to bitch and moan about everything.
You guys talk about chatrooms like they're Nazi war criminals on the loose. Christ.
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On June 11 2010 06:40 v3chr0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 06:35 avilo wrote:
Notice they said nothing about chatrooms or anything the community has asked for, he just gives of an anecdotal story about how things are gonna be just GREAT! Can we honestly expect anything different from Blizzard beside greatness? The fact that they are listening to complaints about B.net 2.0 and making changes because of them is enough to have hope. What good does it do to sulk and cry about what they didn't say, read between the lines, not everything has to be spelled out for you. Inevitably it all ends the same way, they add what we want, and regardless we all continue to love and play the games they create. Every day there are so many complaints in different forms about Battle.net 2.0; DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK THEY DON'T KNOW/CARE ABOUT THIS? Get a clue, honestly, there is a REASON why Blizzard has always come out on top.
What everyone seems to forget is that there was a BIGGER outcry about Modern Warfare 2, and Activision gave everyone the finger. And then MW2 was one of the bestselling games ever. The hardcore group is a minority - and when it comes to sales, they're better off catering to the casual gamer.
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On June 11 2010 10:21 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 06:40 v3chr0 wrote:On June 11 2010 06:35 avilo wrote:
Notice they said nothing about chatrooms or anything the community has asked for, he just gives of an anecdotal story about how things are gonna be just GREAT! Can we honestly expect anything different from Blizzard beside greatness? The fact that they are listening to complaints about B.net 2.0 and making changes because of them is enough to have hope. What good does it do to sulk and cry about what they didn't say, read between the lines, not everything has to be spelled out for you. Inevitably it all ends the same way, they add what we want, and regardless we all continue to love and play the games they create. Every day there are so many complaints in different forms about Battle.net 2.0; DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK THEY DON'T KNOW/CARE ABOUT THIS? Get a clue, honestly, there is a REASON why Blizzard has always come out on top. What everyone seems to forget is that there was a BIGGER outcry about Modern Warfare 2, and Activision gave everyone the finger. And then MW2 was one of the bestselling games ever. The hardcore group is a minority - and when it comes to sales, they're better off catering to the casual gamer.
MW black ops contains dedicated servers.
Second of all MW2 only had decent sales on consoles. Starcraft 2 is not coming to consoles, unless blizzard is a fan of big surprises (lol).
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On June 11 2010 09:47 Half wrote:
Do you guys think that Blizzard coders are jesus christ dinosaur velicoraptor or something? It takes time to develop things fyi.
lold, you know, this make sense. Changes can't happen overnight, can't happen with the beta running and a shitload of info to work up into making sense. Yet, they made an efford to hear our complains and maybe they're working on that now. Just maybe. I don't care about LAN and chat channels anyways (altough it IS weird to think of BN without them).
On June 11 2010 09:49 Mentat wrote:
they serve you the same old activision corporate bullshit and you guys lap it up like thirsty dogs
pure horse shit
battle.net 2.0 will go down in history as a massive failure.
Yeah... No. If you really believed in this you wouldn't waste your time posting stuff in TL. IF you really believe, then forget about this game and go do something usefull, who cares about a massive failure anyway. Go study, play BW, go out with your girlfriend, or anything usefull.
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On June 11 2010 10:08 kajeus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 09:49 Mentat wrote:
they serve you the same old activision corporate bullshit and you guys lap it up like thirsty dogs
pure horse shit
battle.net 2.0 will go down in history as a massive failure.
You are so BORING. Jeez. Seriously, do you not realize that you're more a sheep than anyone who's actually thoughtful about this? You're just another boring naysayer raring to bitch and moan about everything. You guys talk about chatrooms like they're Nazi war criminals on the loose. Christ.
I literally just facepalmed. Ok. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you're just angry at how people are overreacting. But, I have to tell you, that people are not overreacting.
I love blizzard as much as the next guy, but lets just be honest for a second.
BLIZZARD IS SCREWING UP.
People say that 1)no chat rooms, 2)no cross realm, 3)no lan, 4)facebook integration, 5)privacy issues, 6)the fact that players need permission to run tournaments, 7)the bad league/division system, 8)blizzard limiting map memory for publishers, 9)and the current blizzard model of 3 campaigns released in 3 separate games, isn't a big deal.
Come on, guys. How can you just blindly be like, "Blizzard will fix it!" or "Just play it, you know you'll love it!" when Blizzard IS going to sell an inferior product if it is released without 3/4ths of the above things changed. The top 4 issues of course being 1,2,3,6.
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On June 11 2010 10:35 TLOBrian wrote:
1)no chat rooms, 2)no cross realm, 3)no lan, 4)facebook integration, 5)privacy issues, 6)the fact that players need permission to run tournaments, 7)the bad league/division system, 8)blizzard limiting map memory for publishers, 9)and the current blizzard model of 3 campaigns released in 3 separate games, isn't a big deal.
Uhhhh dont name all Blizzard fails in one post, it makes me lose hope ;(
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If Blizzard is realizing all the flaws with b.net (and there are a lot), then it would be best to delay the game until those major concerns are addressed. Obviously they are already committed to this release date, but its too bad how Blizzard is only fixing these issues after 12 million people suck up and buy their $60 game.
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On June 11 2010 10:35 TLOBrian wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 10:08 kajeus wrote:On June 11 2010 09:49 Mentat wrote:
they serve you the same old activision corporate bullshit and you guys lap it up like thirsty dogs
pure horse shit
battle.net 2.0 will go down in history as a massive failure.
You are so BORING. Jeez. Seriously, do you not realize that you're more a sheep than anyone who's actually thoughtful about this? You're just another boring naysayer raring to bitch and moan about everything. You guys talk about chatrooms like they're Nazi war criminals on the loose. Christ. I literally just facepalmed. Ok. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you're just angry at how people are overreacting. But, I have to tell you, that people are not overreacting. I love blizzard as much as the next guy, but lets just be honest for a second. BLIZZARD IS SCREWING UP. People say that 1)no chat rooms, 2)no cross realm, 3)no lan, 4)facebook integration, 5)privacy issues, 6)the fact that players need permission to run tournaments, 7)the bad league/division system, 8)blizzard limiting map memory for publishers, 9)and the current blizzard model of 3 campaigns released in 3 separate games, isn't a big deal. Come on, guys. How can you just blindly be like, "Blizzard will fix it!" or "Just play it, you know you'll love it!" when Blizzard IS going to sell an inferior product if it is released without 3/4ths of the above things changed. The top 4 issues of course being 1,2,3,6.
Um I believe it was the same for sc1 I believe TSL got permission for the tournaments thats nothing new... 3 campaigns in 3 different games I don't see a problem tbh but ok. I agree with you otherwise for the most part but still...
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Cool story, Blizzard.
I'll believe it when I see it.
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10387 Posts
Actions speak louder than words, and so far their actions have been telling me to expect the worst. Please surprise me Blizzard
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There's apparently a common theme to the fans of Blizzard.
We have the haters. "OMFG BNET 2.0 SUCKASS CAUSE..." whatever they may spit out and use whatever means necessary to pin the blame on something. Though they'll buy the game anyway.
And we have the unquestioning lovers. Though the features may suckass, they still don't question Blizzard's motive and defend something about them whatever means necessary such as "omfg its a beta and it's blizzard! they'll fix it!"
makes me wanna go http://www.religiouspeoplearefunny.com/image.axd?picture=2009/10/christians.jpg [NSFRP =Not safe for religious people]
honestly, everything is very questionable. I love blizzard's game and their philosophies. But as of late, many hyped up games have proven to be...erm lacking or isn't as great as we think it may be (Metal Gear Solid 4 and Final Fantasy XIII in my opinion) and Blizzard could just like this. It's only possible but Blizzard can fail. The Singleplayer will probably most likely kick ass, it's the multiplayer, competitive balancing and ideas they're going for is what I'm worried.
They say they listened to us and indeed, they have. But sometimes, just sometimes, I just wonder if they really listened hard.
I mean really, when was the last time you heard someone go "god I fucking wished we have facebook integration and adding people by email instead of their usernames..."
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People say that 1)no chat rooms, 2)no cross realm, 3)no lan, 4)facebook integration, 5)privacy issues, 6)the fact that players need permission to run tournaments, 7)the bad league/division system, 8)blizzard limiting map memory for publishers, 9)and the current blizzard model of 3 campaigns released in 3 separate games, isn't a big deal.
Come on, guys. How can you just blindly be like, "Blizzard will fix it!" or "Just play it, you know you'll love it!" when Blizzard IS going to sell an inferior product if it is released without 3/4ths of the above things changed. The top 4 issues of course being 1,2,3,6.
Are you sure all of these are problems?
4: Facebook integration is a problem? If you don't like it, don't use it. It's a bonus for people who use Facebook and would like to further integrate that into their life. That's clearly not your generation (nor is it mine), so just ignore it.
Battle.Net 2.0 isn't all about what you want.
6: How is that any different from how it is now with SC1? Technically, you always needed permission, and most real tournament organizers ask. All Blizzard is asking you to do is fire off an e-mail. Is that so hard?
7: It may be bad for you, but it does serve a purpose. I imagine most people will enjoy it.
8: They're also hosting the maps. Google gets away with giving people gigabytes of memory for free because they make money on advertising. The more people who use their free memory, the more ad space they sell. Unless you're suggesting that Blizzard spend lots of money hosting maps that they will never see a return on, which makes no financial sense. Or that Blizzard not host at all, which is a return to the anarchy of Battle.Net 1.0.
9: PC Games have had expansions for at least 15 years; calling BS on it now is ridiculous.
Some of the problems you suggest are real problems that should be worked out (though they're not going to be by release). Many of them are nonsense.
In any case, it seems pretty obvious at this point that none of #1, 2, and 3 are going to happen by release. Blizzard has already gone on record on all of these not being there. They have also gone on record as saying that they will include something that allows people to chat in the future, sometime before the release of the first expansion.
I mean really, when was the last time you heard someone go "god I fucking wished we have facebook integration and adding people by email instead of their usernames..."
Didn't Blizzard state that the e-mail thing was a stop-gap measure that they fully intend to replace?
Let's say that 15 million people buy SC2. It's entirely likely that many of them are people with Facebook accounts, and quite a few of them live and breathe Facebook. Now, ask them if they want Facebook integration in SC2 or not. Odds are, they will out number you.
SC2 isn't just for people on TeamLiquid.
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is this their reply to hd's thread with the kittens? this is complete and utter bs. this is like wow, just crap after heaping pile of crap. they said they were going to revamp the talent trees and make them fun.
anyone who critically thinks knows that personal anecdotes are not real forms of proof of anything. until there is actual proof that they are fixing the problems why believe them?
but it all comes down to money. thats the bottom line. blizzard doesn't care about you or me or any of their fans they just want them to buy the games( and the 2 expansions rofl) and feed them more money so they can keep their stock holders happy and give their ceos big bonuses
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Beta's been down for less than a week and everyone's upset that the feedback they've provided hasn't been implemented yet.
I'm not sure what you want - you're not going to get your changes implemented during the beta hiatus.
I love the dichotomy - Blizzard is the best and they make great games, but oh no, they're not making great games anymore because 2 features I wanted weren't implemented immediately in Beta.
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He sounds like tony the tiger from frosted flakes - not good, but GRREEEEAAATT
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On June 11 2010 12:36 Fraud wrote:
Beta's been down for less than a week and everyone's upset that the feedback they've provided hasn't been implemented yet.
I'm not sure what you want - you're not going to get your changes implemented during the beta hiatus.
I love the dichotomy - Blizzard is the best and they make great games, but oh no, they're not making great games anymore because 2 features I wanted weren't implemented immediately in Beta.
What? People have been voicing their concerns over bnet .5 since before the beta even came out.
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I have a question for all people who are saying that sc2 (or bnet 2.0) sucks / will continue to suck forever.
Is sc1 a good game? If yes, do you remember when it first came out? It was terrible.
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Oh Blizzard you're so cute... now give me my chat channels and LAN please.
On June 11 2010 12:44 dogabutila wrote:
I have a question for all people who are saying that sc2 (or bnet 2.0) sucks / will continue to suck forever.
Is sc1 a good game? If yes, do you remember when it first came out? It was terrible.
Comparing the beta stages of BW and the beta stages of SCII has little to no merit; Blizzard's first great RTS was Starcraft:BW - they've had 10 years of experience in game balance and design afterwards. Should we expect that SCII look like the result of the 1998 Blizzard or the 2010 Blizzard? SCI was not balanced to begin with, and Battle.net certainly had not reached its fullest capabilities at launch, but that doesn't serve as an excuse for Blizzard to completely ignore the sentiments of half of the gaming community.
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Blizzard created and continued development on three franchises that are beyond any other game, ever. We the fans have always been a part of that. For the next two parts of the Starcraft 2 Trilogy we'll see more improvements as we go, with patches in between similar to what happens in World of Warcraft. We've always had more polish applied, always attempting to make it better.
Zydraris is in PR. That's his job description right, to be a voice for the team at Blizzard. The feeling behind those words remind me of who we're really talking about.... Blizzard Entertainment.
I too have been spreading the Activision warcries. (by the way, i'm sure Activision has people watching these types of posts as corporate spies...be wary...) ...spreading the word about those realities is a must, and Blizz knows our demands.
That's why when I buy the game and Diablo 3, I'm buying it from the Blizzard Store. Not gamestop, (who doesnt sell pc games at 3/5 local stores) not Best Buy, etc etc.
Although a possible boycott still crosses my mind when examining the facts... It's too early to tell. But I can't simply believe "they were eaten by Activision" .....lol. It's Blizzard. I'm 28 and have been playing since Orcs and Humans in like 1994.
What I do know from climbing to gold league this beta is that Dustin really led a team to some awesome gameplay. You all know starcraft is the most intense experience evErRRrr...regardless of bnet. Give the devs a small break eh?
I love SC2. It's not perfect, nor was Rome built in a day. Beat your drums to the battle.net 2.0 conflict so blizzard knows they have a RL army behind them. We got this.
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On June 11 2010 10:21 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 06:40 v3chr0 wrote:On June 11 2010 06:35 avilo wrote:
Notice they said nothing about chatrooms or anything the community has asked for, he just gives of an anecdotal story about how things are gonna be just GREAT! Can we honestly expect anything different from Blizzard beside greatness? The fact that they are listening to complaints about B.net 2.0 and making changes because of them is enough to have hope. What good does it do to sulk and cry about what they didn't say, read between the lines, not everything has to be spelled out for you. Inevitably it all ends the same way, they add what we want, and regardless we all continue to love and play the games they create. Every day there are so many complaints in different forms about Battle.net 2.0; DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK THEY DON'T KNOW/CARE ABOUT THIS? Get a clue, honestly, there is a REASON why Blizzard has always come out on top. What everyone seems to forget is that there was a BIGGER outcry about Modern Warfare 2, and Activision gave everyone the finger. And then MW2 was one of the bestselling games ever. The hardcore group is a minority - and when it comes to sales, they're better off catering to the casual gamer.
MW2 Matchmaking system is GREAT for consoles, of that I cannot fault them for. Consoles rely far more heavily on voice chat due to their limitations.
Unfortunately they got lazy and decided to port that directly to the PC. A matchmaking system for PC that features no chat is a dead PC game when it comes to multiplayer. Never ever underestimate how important the social part of a game is when it's mainstay = Bnet 2.0 Sc2 will live or die by the way Bnet 2.0 operates.
Right now it's going to die, thats what everyone is scared of...and SC2 doesn't have consoles to save its ass.
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I think Blizzard's actions tell us that they're so freaking busy just getting a working network and balancing the game that they can't possibly have our requests addressed (whether they will or not) by launch.
Maybe they'll screw up, maybe they won't. But you can't just hire a bunch more new guys to magically make bnet2 awesome in a month. Be patient, wait and see what happens.
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i dont think theyd need to put the beta down for weeks just to make minor balance changes, theres obviously something bigger happening. just play it as a wait and see attitude like me. if it comes it comes if not well that just sucks.
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You actually think these pr speeches mean anything?
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On June 11 2010 11:59 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +People say that 1)no chat rooms, 2)no cross realm, 3)no lan, 4)facebook integration, 5)privacy issues, 6)the fact that players need permission to run tournaments, 7)the bad league/division system, 8)blizzard limiting map memory for publishers, 9)and the current blizzard model of 3 campaigns released in 3 separate games, isn't a big deal.
Come on, guys. How can you just blindly be like, "Blizzard will fix it!" or "Just play it, you know you'll love it!" when Blizzard IS going to sell an inferior product if it is released without 3/4ths of the above things changed. The top 4 issues of course being 1,2,3,6. Are you sure all of these are problems? 4: Facebook integration is a problem? If you don't like it, don't use it. It's a bonus for people who use Facebook and would like to further integrate that into their life. That's clearly not your generation (nor is it mine), so just ignore it. Battle.Net 2.0 isn't all about what you want. 6: How is that any different from how it is now with SC1? Technically, you always needed permission, and most real tournament organizers ask. All Blizzard is asking you to do is fire off an e-mail. Is that so hard? 7: It may be bad for you, but it does serve a purpose. I imagine most people will enjoy it. 8: They're also hosting the maps. Google gets away with giving people gigabytes of memory for free because they make money on advertising. The more people who use their free memory, the more ad space they sell. Unless you're suggesting that Blizzard spend lots of money hosting maps that they will never see a return on, which makes no financial sense. Or that Blizzard not host at all, which is a return to the anarchy of Battle.Net 1.0. 9: PC Games have had expansions for at least 15 years; calling BS on it now is ridiculous. Some of the problems you suggest are real problems that should be worked out (though they're not going to be by release). Many of them are nonsense. In any case, it seems pretty obvious at this point that none of #1, 2, and 3 are going to happen by release. Blizzard has already gone on record on all of these not being there. They have also gone on record as saying that they will include something that allows people to chat in the future, sometime before the release of the first expansion. Show nested quote +I mean really, when was the last time you heard someone go "god I fucking wished we have facebook integration and adding people by email instead of their usernames..." Didn't Blizzard state that the e-mail thing was a stop-gap measure that they fully intend to replace? Let's say that 15 million people buy SC2. It's entirely likely that many of them are people with Facebook accounts, and quite a few of them live and breathe Facebook. Now, ask them if they want Facebook integration in SC2 or not. Odds are, they will out number you. SC2 isn't just for people on TeamLiquid.
4. It is a feature that is unneeded, which time could have been spent adding in 1-3.
Lets say that 15 million people buy starcraft 2, and some of them they live and breathe [x] product. It still doesn't make it right for blizzard to implement something that clearly isn't useful to playing the actual game.
6. You shouldn't have to. It is an inconvenience to players that have bought the game, play it competitively, support it and spread the word about it to their friends.
7. You're just saying, "Some people will enjoy it." Being in a random division means that you have no idea what your actual standings are in the world, and to competitive players, that is a HUGE deal.
8. They're hosting the maps, so what? If I'm supposed to play 60 dollars plus 20-30 for each expansion, they better host the maps! They'll make plenty of money to cover hosting costs AND line their pockets, which goes to my next point.
9. Yes, they've had expansions in PC games for years, to add content to an original game. The 2 "expansions" that are coming out can't really be called expansions, they're just part 2 and 3. Blizzard is charging us for a whole game for 1/3 of a game, then the rest marked as "expansions." The 3 games that blizzard is releasing is just 1 game, but marketed to get more and more money.
I'm not trying to make blizzard look evil, its just the bottom line and how they're moving forward.
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On June 11 2010 07:25 exnomendei wrote:
No. They think in the long-term. And not because they love us so much but because they're not stupid. They know that a game like Starcraft 2 is a long-term bet, they have two expansions planned, they want to make a game that's good for the simple reason that it'll make them SELL.
That's why the quote from page one is so important. They know the game can be better. They acknowledge it. That means that it's in their best interests to fix it. Whatever they do, they do to make the game better, and if you don't want to believe that, I'd hate to be your employee. (not a personal attack here, sorry.)
How does putting off solving Bnet2.0's issues help the long term? Releasing Bnet2.0 without chat channels is like releasing an unfinished product. It's not like with Brood War they purposefully left out core features of the game and said "this is good in the long term because we will patch it later." Why should we have to wait another 2 years for an expansion pack that will give us something that should have been there in the first place? I get it that Blizzard doesn't actually "owe" us anything, I do. It's just the way they've reacted to our feedback that kind of bothers me.
I'm not just some raving lunatic who hates the shit out of Blizzard. I love Blizzard. I know they're trying to make the game more enjoyable. It's just that we've been telling them from day 1 that Bnet2.0 has issues. And how have they responded to us? They basically suggested to us that we don't want chat channels, LAN, and other features in interviews. - Think about that for a second. They're trying to tell us what we do and do not want, like our opinions don't even matter - They've been constantly asked about chat channels, and every time the just shrug it off and say no.
You'd think that months later (the beta started in what, February?) they'd have done a little more than say "okay, we are thinking about fixing some issues". Obviously it's too late for them to cram all the stuff we want in at the last minute, I'm just not very confident that all the issues will be addressed, and if they do it's going to take a very, very long time.
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I have not lost my faith in Blizzard and recent devs make me believe I am right. They will deliver a great game and listen to the community as much as possible.
But hey guys, they dont have to aknowledge to everything we ask just because we ask it. They are the epic game creators we liked so much this past decade remember?? Show some more respect damnit.
Maybe someone here can set up a server so big that it can handle the whole world connecting to it with no bugs and no latency issues, chatting all over the place across seas while hosting TONS of games simultanustly and provide the most balanced multi-player of all times.
And yea set this up without the money the bad evil Activison has. Do it fast, do it right and don't pull a word above the other or i'll just trash you over and over in various threads just for the sake of being unfaithful and pretend I know whats best for a game thats not even v1.0. because HEY, I'm the consumer so I have all the rights to complain over and over.
And speaking about money, don't ask me to pay more than I feel this game is worth or i'll be boycotting, rate you as the poorest game ever on amazon and go download the torrent just before realizing that, there is just no better game to play.
If I was a Blizzard employee atm, I would be so pissed right now. Working days and nights to release the most anticipated strategy game of all time and it's just never enough and probably will never be good enough for their pretentious standards.
IT'S A WORK IN PROGRESS
and not an easy task to accomplish at all
They have heard our concerns, they will do what they think is the best from now on. Just give the runner a chance. And they heavily deserve that chance.
So if you keep complaining for the sake of complainin claiming you are the consumer, don't ever call yourself a Blizzard fan, you are not.
As for what they have done with WoW. I totally agree that vanilla WoW was the golden age of wow (BC was not bad also) and they screwed the competitive (as much as wow can be competitive) aspect of the game. Purples almost dropping right from the skies, useless time-consuming achivements, pets, tons of no brainer quests. Yea, they screwed what I liked in wow like many of you.
But at the same time they realized WoW could never be a e-sport. They also realized how the chinese and overall asian market can bring huge income if they happen to reach only a mere 1% of total population.
So they aimed for the causal players. Let's face it, since WoTLK, wow has became a game for your sister and your kids.
Why have they done that? (hint: it's not to buy new cars to their owners)
They needed that to substain a whole dev team (probably one of the most expensive team so far)
to work on a new game thats gotta be the new e-sport from Blizzard: Starcraft 2.
Probably one of their best move imo, and I'll leave the daily no-brainer quests to someone else, I don't give a fuck about Valentine Seasonal Quests anyways, I'm a Starcraft player.
(so to an hardcore SC player, this is a win-win situation. You farm the mobs for countless hours or ruin your relation with your GF because of raiding schedule and have your fun, I have my game and have my fun.)
Ok this is getting long but I had to let go the rage i'm experiencing these days reading some posts in these threads.
It's perfectly fine to tell your concerns. It's totally fine to say the game and the server aint perfect.
But it aint ok to bash on them, not okay to judge every single word they say in an interview and it's not okay to say the game and the server totally suck, because it doesnt suck.
Patience. Please.
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On June 11 2010 12:57 synapse wrote:Oh Blizzard you're so cute... now give me my chat channels and LAN please. Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 12:44 dogabutila wrote:
I have a question for all people who are saying that sc2 (or bnet 2.0) sucks / will continue to suck forever.
Is sc1 a good game? If yes, do you remember when it first came out? It was terrible. Comparing the beta stages of BW and the beta stages of SCII has little to no merit; Blizzard's first great RTS was Starcraft:BW - they've had 10 years of experience in game balance and design afterwards. Should we expect that SCII look like the result of the 1998 Blizzard or the 2010 Blizzard? SCI was not balanced to begin with, and Battle.net certainly had not reached its fullest capabilities at launch, but that doesn't serve as an excuse for Blizzard to completely ignore the sentiments of half of the gaming community.
You missed the point I was trying to make. Blizz will keep working on the game until it becomes what they want, even post release.
And actually the first great RTS blizz made was war2.
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On June 11 2010 10:21 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 06:40 v3chr0 wrote:On June 11 2010 06:35 avilo wrote:
Notice they said nothing about chatrooms or anything the community has asked for, he just gives of an anecdotal story about how things are gonna be just GREAT! Can we honestly expect anything different from Blizzard beside greatness? The fact that they are listening to complaints about B.net 2.0 and making changes because of them is enough to have hope. What good does it do to sulk and cry about what they didn't say, read between the lines, not everything has to be spelled out for you. Inevitably it all ends the same way, they add what we want, and regardless we all continue to love and play the games they create. Every day there are so many complaints in different forms about Battle.net 2.0; DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK THEY DON'T KNOW/CARE ABOUT THIS? Get a clue, honestly, there is a REASON why Blizzard has always come out on top. What everyone seems to forget is that there was a BIGGER outcry about Modern Warfare 2, and Activision gave everyone the finger. And then MW2 was one of the bestselling games ever. The hardcore group is a minority - and when it comes to sales, they're better off catering to the casual gamer.
I honestly don't think any one can safely assume they do not care about our concerns in terms of Battle.net 2.0, there has been a ton of outcry since the start and things don't happen over night, and nobody but Blizzard knows exactly whats going on and how SC2/B.net 2.0 progress is. For all we know they could have a whole new revamped or atleast updated bnet ready for phase 2, and once again, we have voiced our concerns, I'd rather not be pessimistic about the process, but I guess some choose to, Blizzard hasn't let us down yet, when they do, I'll change my perception.
And I'm confident in the community to come up with applications to solve the problems that exist with b.net 2.0, it's sad if it comes to that, but when has this ever shown not to be true with features lacking in a game. If you look at WoW, private developers of addons made Blizzard use those ideas to make UI additions to the game itself, who wants a product where you have to use 30 3rd party applications to get it to function right? I'd say it's only a matter of time before we get what we want, either from Blizzard or from the community. Sooner rather than later is always my preference, as I really can't agree with the logic behind the absence of some B.net features but hopefully it's just delayed for w.e reason.
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i was expecting something more specific
i feel rickrolled
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Too bad their idea of making the game "perfect" is by tweaking numbers until things are "balanced" and can a-move into each other equally, rather than actually make the game fun, dynamic and interesting.
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On June 11 2010 07:46 Bosu wrote:
However, lan latency while on a lan while connected to battle.net should definitely be implemented.
This would be good enough for me. Allow local clients to connect to each other instead of all clients sending their data to bnet. The bnet latency will be absolutely terrible compared to lan.
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On June 11 2010 20:06 Angra wrote:
Too bad their idea of making the game "perfect" is by tweaking numbers until things are "balanced" and can a-move into each other equally, rather than actually make the game fun, dynamic and interesting.
You might have no idea what you are talking about.
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They've already got reliable code for chat channels in BNET 1.0. I seriously doubt that it would be all that hard to just inject the original code into BNET 2.0 and then tweak as necessary. Why does everyone assume that writing code is always from the ground up?
Charles
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It's unbelievable how entitled so many Starcraft player see themselves. You can't look at anything and expect it to be perfect on its first try. Think about ANY product that came out in version one, or prior, that was perfect. Hell, think of one product, in version one or prior, that was great. It's VERY rare for technology to be perfect on its first release / version. You haters need to chill out. Blizzard will not downplay this.
Also consider that Blizzard spends a LOT of time making games GREAT. Look at their catalog of games and point out ANY of them that did not end up being extraordinary games. This game will be no different.
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I'm sorry to break it to you.. but you have been PRed...
That's right.. the public relations department is very good at making their customers feel like you are the world to them. I'm not saying Blizzard is a bad company, but a typical response like the one in the OP is very standard response from the public relations comity from quality control in a car industry.
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On June 11 2010 23:28 stellarvector wrote:
They've already got reliable code for chat channels in BNET 1.0. I seriously doubt that it would be all that hard to just inject the original code into BNET 2.0 and then tweak as necessary. Why does everyone assume that writing code is always from the ground up?
Charles
Because b.net is different. Player names work differently, the servers run different software, etc.
Just saying "I'll put the code from v1 in here!" honestly doesn't work. In theory it could, but would you as a developer be fine with throwing 12-year-old, outdated code from another platform in a new platform? I sincerely doubt it. It's very likely that they switched to a new language in those years, from C to C++ per example (Just a silly example, no hard facts here folks), and really, porting things is sometimes more work than just rewriting it completely.
How does putting off solving Bnet2.0's issues help the long term? Releasing Bnet2.0 without chat channels is like releasing an unfinished product. It's not like with Brood War they purposefully left out core features of the game and said "this is good in the long term because we will patch it later." Why should we have to wait another 2 years for an expansion pack that will give us something that should have been there in the first place? I get it that Blizzard doesn't actually "owe" us anything, I do. It's just the way they've reacted to our feedback that kind of bothers me.
I'm not just some raving lunatic who hates the shit out of Blizzard. I love Blizzard. I know they're trying to make the game more enjoyable. It's just that we've been telling them from day 1 that Bnet2.0 has issues. And how have they responded to us? They basically suggested to us that we don't want chat channels, LAN, and other features in interviews. - Think about that for a second. They're trying to tell us what we do and do not want, like our opinions don't even matter - They've been constantly asked about chat channels, and every time the just shrug it off and say no.
You'd think that months later (the beta started in what, February?) they'd have done a little more than say "okay, we are thinking about fixing some issues". Obviously it's too late for them to cram all the stuff we want in at the last minute, I'm just not very confident that all the issues will be addressed, and if they do it's going to take a very, very long time.
Putting off solving issues doesn't help. Realizing late in the development cycle that there are issues (4 months is NOT a long time for a huge game and platform like this) is not ideal. But why do you automatically presume that they're going to wait for two years to fix things? Has Blizzard not fixed lots of UI issues, bugs, and exploits during the beta itself? Have you forgotten how much the UI changed, how the "back" button was implemented after the community asked for it?
Their reactions before have not been perfect either. They're not the slickest, most streamlined company in the world when it comes to PR. Statements like the one I started this thread with, however, reveal us one thing: Blizzard is aware. Blizzard isn't sitting in its porcelain chair or swimming in its money. They're working on things.
LAN support is an issue that I feel is hard to talk about seriously. We all know the merits of having LAN support. Blizzard gets us, they would love to implement it. But then the game would (and this is a pretty straight-up fact) be pirated much, much more than with the setup they have now. Blizzard had to balance satisfying the professional scene we all know and love and the typical FPS-shooter playing gamer who downloads this game from a Torrent and figures he can play with his friends for free.
Fixing all issues in a game as large as this is a task that any development team, of any size, will struggle with. And certainly not do during a live Beta period designed mainly to find glitches, bugs, and balance issues. The release version, I guarantee you, will be smoother, easier to use, and simply "better" than the beta. Sure, not all your (and my) favorite features will be in the game at the start. Maybe some feature will never make it back (though I predict the community outbreak with chat channels will spark something useful) and sure, we'll always be a little upset about that. But I truly doubt, I truly do, that all these problems will remain with us forever.
Don't forget. The beta is NOT the gold master.
I'm sorry to break it to you.. but you have been PRed...
That's right.. the public relations department is very good at making their customers feel like you are the world to them. I'm not saying Blizzard is a bad company, but a typical response like the one in the OP is very standard response from the public relations comity from quality control in a car industry.
True, I have been PRed. I however like to think from Blizzard's perspective: Why would they say such things and then not do anything that remotely resembles what they say? I'd gladly call that "shooting my own foot". If Blizzard yells "WE'RE ADDING CHAT CHANNELS" and never does it, will that help them in any way shape or form, or, as I am thinking here, will it completely backfire and make them lose a LOT of support and even straight-up sales?
Since I am studying in order to be part of a large corporation some day, I like to think I'm right about at least that aspect. I'd never go out and say "We'll be doing this and that!" unless I was a politician.
Blizzard is not evil. Blizzard is a corporation.
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This response is a perfect example how Blizzard is trying to avoid giving a straight answer to bnet 2.0 concerns. And like someone previously said these "pr speeches" are only trying to shift attenttion elsewhere and give false hope for the community. I played wow for several years and i know they won't hold back information regarding pressing concerns if they know they will eventually fix them. If they really were to implement chat, lan etc. at some point, they would give a straight up answer that they will in the future.
I can understand Blizzard not wanting to implement LAN option as keeping "digital property" tightly in your grasp seems to be the industry standard nowdays. However i'm little confused as to why they wouldn't make a chat feature. I simply can't come up with any reason how simply chat feature could cut into company profits(as i've had the impression that profit is the main driving force behind activion and lately blizzard). Could it be - like they said - that they really want to take the shortcut to eliminating the spamming and advertising once and for all. If that is the case i think they are only shooting themselves in the leg.
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Calgary25980 Posts
Does this need a thread? Standard PR. If it's true or not is impossible to know so it's largely meaningless.
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so this means they're not evil, just incompetent!
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On June 11 2010 23:48 Kermine wrote:I can understand Blizzard not wanting to implement LAN option as keeping "digital property" tightly in your grasp seems to be the industry standard nowdays. However i'm little confused as to why they wouldn't make a chat feature. I simply can't come up with any reason how simply chat feature could cut into company profits(as i've had the impression that profit is the main driving force behind activion and lately blizzard). Could it be - like they said - that they really want to take the shortcut to eliminating the spamming and advertising once and for all. If that is the case i think they are only shooting themselves in the leg.
Do you really think they won't add it after the simply MASSIVE amount of response the community has given to the question: "Do you really want chat channels?" I see it on pretty much every forum discussing Starcraft 2, and Blizzard itself has likely been shocked by just how loud the community can get if they say something stupid like that.
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On June 11 2010 06:32 exnomendei wrote:
Apart from the obvious "never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down" aspect of this post, I'd like to state another obvious thing:
...they are rickrolling us?
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On June 12 2010 00:01 lololol wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2010 06:32 exnomendei wrote:
Apart from the obvious "never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down" aspect of this post, I'd like to state another obvious thing:
...they are rickrolling us?
No. I'm rickrolling YOU!
"We'll do our best because we don't want to let you down."
It just reminded me of Rick Astley, but the point was that I realize it's just PR, and yet I still think it's very significant.
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EPT
