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On May 27 2010 17:20 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 17:18 Eury wrote:On May 27 2010 17:11 Plexa wrote:On May 27 2010 16:59 FrozenArbiter wrote:On May 27 2010 16:51 heishe wrote:On May 27 2010 16:47 Boonbag wrote:On May 27 2010 16:46 heishe wrote:On May 27 2010 15:58 Plexa wrote:On May 27 2010 15:12 Go0g3n wrote:
A few things to consider:
1. Everything that's now happening with StarCraft II already happened with WarCraft III before and right after release. It also was a brand new exciting game with new graphics, new B.net features, new editor and so on so forth. It had LAN, 4 Realms. Blizzard swore they would add custom maps to the roster, - you know what happened later, the game basically died after 2-3 years, now HoN + Dota are 10 times more popular. (btw War 3 didn't sell that well either).
2. Blizzard has never ever done anything to properly support any of their games with the exception of WoW. Patches were always late and buggy, they never updated or reworked Battle.net, next to 0 counter-abuse and all the rest of it.
3. Everything that was done around Diablo II, StarCraft, War III and partially WoW was done by community using an open source element put in all those games and/or resources around the game, it was done by community only and never supported by Blizzard in any way, often attempted to destroy by the same old Blizz.
Verdict: Blizzard makes decent (some say great) games, which is more than true. However, they are completely useless as community organizers, activists or supporters, - the role they've taken onto themselves in the past and failed miserably, the role they are taking onto themselves once again: from all the B.net 2.0/Editor/Publishing/Lan/Realms/Private Data limitations to all the GOM/KeSPA stuff. They simply do not know how it's done. Pretty much this. My gut says this is all going to end horribly and we're all going to lose out because of it. how do you always come to the conclusion that wc3 "died"? yes, it's not that big in korea, but it's a million times more popular than bw in all of europe, china, russia etc. (leaving out the usa cause the only thing that's big there is halo , lol). War3 isn't pro gaming. War3 is world gaming. War3 has no broadcasting culture. It's not really that difficult to understand. rofl. pure bullshit. User was warned for this post Uhhh, why was he warned for this post? If you're going to call bullshit, debunk it. Usually the burden of proof lies on whoever makes the claim and not the other way around. You guys are all seriously ill. Korea ? MBC ? OGN ? Pro gaming ? Stadiums ? Tons of TV leagues ? Wake up ? Where's War3 in all that ? Oh god everything is gonna crumble.
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know you had to be big in Korea to be classified as progaming.
In China you have pro Warcraft 3 teams, you have Warcraft 3 tournaments being played in stadiums, and they are getting broadcasted.
Anyway that was beside the point of my post. According to Plexa the burden of proof seems to be not on whoever makes a claim or statement no matter how outrageous it is, instead it is up to whoever that disagree with that assessment to provide the evidence to invalid that claim.
Which is completely backwards.
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On May 27 2010 17:27 Eury wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 17:20 Boonbag wrote:On May 27 2010 17:18 Eury wrote:On May 27 2010 17:11 Plexa wrote:On May 27 2010 16:59 FrozenArbiter wrote:On May 27 2010 16:51 heishe wrote:On May 27 2010 16:47 Boonbag wrote:On May 27 2010 16:46 heishe wrote:On May 27 2010 15:58 Plexa wrote:On May 27 2010 15:12 Go0g3n wrote:
A few things to consider:
1. Everything that's now happening with StarCraft II already happened with WarCraft III before and right after release. It also was a brand new exciting game with new graphics, new B.net features, new editor and so on so forth. It had LAN, 4 Realms. Blizzard swore they would add custom maps to the roster, - you know what happened later, the game basically died after 2-3 years, now HoN + Dota are 10 times more popular. (btw War 3 didn't sell that well either).
2. Blizzard has never ever done anything to properly support any of their games with the exception of WoW. Patches were always late and buggy, they never updated or reworked Battle.net, next to 0 counter-abuse and all the rest of it.
3. Everything that was done around Diablo II, StarCraft, War III and partially WoW was done by community using an open source element put in all those games and/or resources around the game, it was done by community only and never supported by Blizzard in any way, often attempted to destroy by the same old Blizz.
Verdict: Blizzard makes decent (some say great) games, which is more than true. However, they are completely useless as community organizers, activists or supporters, - the role they've taken onto themselves in the past and failed miserably, the role they are taking onto themselves once again: from all the B.net 2.0/Editor/Publishing/Lan/Realms/Private Data limitations to all the GOM/KeSPA stuff. They simply do not know how it's done. Pretty much this. My gut says this is all going to end horribly and we're all going to lose out because of it. how do you always come to the conclusion that wc3 "died"? yes, it's not that big in korea, but it's a million times more popular than bw in all of europe, china, russia etc. (leaving out the usa cause the only thing that's big there is halo , lol). War3 isn't pro gaming. War3 is world gaming. War3 has no broadcasting culture. It's not really that difficult to understand. rofl. pure bullshit. User was warned for this post Uhhh, why was he warned for this post? If you're going to call bullshit, debunk it. Usually the burden of proof lies on whoever makes the claim and not the other way around. You guys are all seriously ill. Korea ? MBC ? OGN ? Pro gaming ? Stadiums ? Tons of TV leagues ? Wake up ? Where's War3 in all that ? Oh god everything is gonna crumble. Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know you had to be big in Korea to be classified as progaming. In China you have pro Warcraft 3 teams, you have Warcraft 3 tournaments being played in stadiums, and they are getting broadcasted. Anyway that was beside the point of my post. According to Plexa the burden of proof seems to be not on whoever makes a claim or statement no matter how outrageous it is, instead it is up to whoever that disagree with that assessment to provide the evidence to invalid that claim. Which is completely backwards.
China's situation towards pro gaming is about what Korean pro gaming was back in 1999 - 2000 and wont ever evolve from that for war3.
Now with sc2 who knows.
And this is a gaming forum, not a fucking court of justice jesus. I try making my point when its really needed.
EDIT : I swear a crap ton tho. But that's because I mainly fail at English.
Don't you find it funny that the best paid war3 player moon, is sponsored by a Korean pro sc team ?
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To the people wanting Tasteless and SDM back: that'd be good. But without an esports scene left they won't have anything to cast, which is the way it'll be going if Blizzard demand 100% control.
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On May 27 2010 17:24 Letmelose wrote:
The moment the corporate sponsors lose control over the scene, that serves no function (in their minds) other than getting them exposure to nationwide younger audiences, I wouldn't be surprised if they ditched the scene for Blizzard to deal with. Or even worse, leave the scene in ruins, with Korea's finest gaming minds not able to showcase their skills ANYWHERE if Kespa makes them uphold their contracts with their teams (that are controlled by Kespa).
...
...
If the corporate sponsors that run Kespa don't feel like the E-Sports industry isn't worth giving Blizzard what they desire, we'll be left with Blizzard and GomTV running the scene with what is left over from the scene. A bunch of unpaid teenagers. No television coverage. Falling interest from the Korean viewers. It doesn't matter how good Starcaft 2 is. We'll have to start all over, and there's no guarantee that it'll work again this time. Blizzard are money hungry whores. At least Kespa doesn't hide it.
^^^
What Letmelose said.
If ain't broke, don't fix it.
Leaving KESPA alone would practically guarantee a successful Pro-League with SC2.
Doing it from scratch with GomTV is 50/50 and there is a possibility of SC2 never estbalishing a Pro-League.
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Have all the ppl who are taking Kespa's side forgot the amount of bullshit they pulled these past years? How many retarded decisions did they make, and the way they killed GomTV SC tournaments? Kespa made SC into an esport? REALLY? Didn't Kespa try to do the same thing with war3 and failed? Guess why? First, the game, war3, micro intensive at it is, it's boring to watch, farming creeps for items and xp and then tp'ing out takes away A LOT from the excitement of the game. Second, and in my opinion, the most important thing, the players and the quality of the "show" they produced. Even though I hate him with a burning passion, if it wasn't for Boxer, SC wouldn't be here where it is today. Of course Boxer is not the only one who helped SC grow, there are so many many more players like Yellow, Reach, Nal_Ra, Nada etc., my point is, what Kespa did, organize tournaments, every decent company can do that. In my opinion the GomTV tournaments were really good. Quality players, cast in English, no drama, no retarded decisions, what more can you hope for?
I am REALLY happy that Kespa will die because of this, and they cannot win no matter how hard they try, SC is Blizzard's game, and they can do whatever they want with it, there's no two ways about it.
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On May 27 2010 17:33 fallingdream wrote:
Have all the ppl who are taking Kespa's side forgot the amount of bullshit they pulled these past years? How many retarded decisions did they make, and the way they killed GomTV SC tournaments? Kespa made SC into an esport? REALLY? Didn't Kespa try to do the same thing with war3 and failed? Guess why? First, the game, war3, micro intensive at it is, it's boring to watch, farming creeps for items and xp and then tp'ing out takes away A LOT from the excitement of the game. Second, and in my opinion, the most important thing, the players and the quality of the "show" they produced. Even though I hate him with a burning passion, if it wasn't for Boxer, SC wouldn't be here where it is today. Of course Boxer is not the only one who helped SC grow, there are so many many more players like Yellow, Reach, Nal_Ra, Nada etc., my point is, what Kespa did, organize tournaments, every decent company can do that. In my opinion the GomTV tournaments were really good. Quality players, cast in English, no drama, no retarded decisions, what more can you hope for?
I am REALLY happy that Kespa will die because of this, and they cannot win no matter how hard they try, SC is Blizzard's game, and they can do whatever they want with it, there's no two ways about it.
The fact they're not good at performing their job doesn't mean the first newcomer (with the worst intents you could imagine in that regard) will do a better job.
Hence, it's not even that, it's just like me running randomly into a company saying to their board I'm gonna do better a job and they have to shut down, with no prior experience or track record of doing it.
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I can not believe how incredibly stupid KeSPA is. I mean rock-hard stupid. Dehydrated-rock-hard stupid. Stupid so stupid that it goes way beyond the stupid we know into a whole different dimension of stupid. KeSPA is trans-stupid stupid. Meta-stupid. Stupid collapsed on itself so far that even the neutrons have collapsed. Stupid gotten so dense that no intellect can escape. Singularity stupid. Blazing hot mid-day sun on Mercury stupid. KeSPA emits more stupid in one second than our entire galaxy emits in a year. Quasar stupid. KeSPA has to be a troll. Nothing in our universe can really be this stupid. Perhaps this is some primordial fragment from the original big bang of stupid. Some pure essence of a stupid so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond the laws of physics that we know. I'm sorry. I can't go on. This is an epiphany of stupid for me. A company whose leaders are so stupid and greedy that they completely refuse to negotiate with an IP holder after using their IP for year after year for FREE does not deserve and cannot be trusted to be the leader of E-sports.
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On May 27 2010 17:24 Letmelose wrote:
There's not enough money in E-Sports for everyone to have a big piece of the pie.
Here is how big the scene is.
There are two cable channels dedicated to the coverage of E-Sports; OGN and MBC Game. Each broadcasting channel has an individual league, but that's not where the money is. The money is in the Proleague, with the corporate sponsored teams duking it out for glory. The corporations that are funding the teams ARE Kespa, and they OWN the players. They get no direct profit from the scene other than the exposure they get on television.
GomTV has no television channel of their own. It's just an internet broadcasting system. While it makes no difference for the average non-Korean viewer. It is a HUGE difference for the Koreans. Yes, the hardcore fans will follow professional Starcraft no matter what the media is, but do you expect the corporate sponsors to keep the scene alive simply for the fans? Total bullshit. They're in it for the air time on television and public relations reasons.
I don't give two shits about bunch of money hungry whores playing their ego battles for what they feel they deserve, but what I DO care for is the scene that the PLAYERS have created through their dedication, their inhuman skills and passion for the game in general. The conditions under which they play are mind boggling, and not at all lucrative for the effort they put in, but things are better than they were before. You know why? Because E-Sports in Korea has developed from a select few gamers going around looking for tournament prizes to rake in, to having corporate sponsored teams that pays them (not much, unfortunately, in most cases) for what they do.
The moment the corporate sponsors lose control over the scene, that serves no function (in their minds) other than getting them exposure to nationwide younger audiences, I wouldn't be surprised if they ditched the scene for Blizzard to deal with. Or even worse, leave the scene in ruins, with Korea's finest gaming minds not able to showcase their skills ANYWHERE if Kespa makes them uphold their contracts with their teams (that are controlled by Kespa).
FUCK THAT. Fuck the English commentary by GomTV. Fuck Blizzard for getting their share. Fuck Starcaft 2. Blizzard doesn't feed the scene. Blizzard didn't create the scene. There's already one money hungry whore running the scene for what little market it has (it's NOT that big I assure you), but at least it is willing to keep the teams running (and the teams pay the players, and the players ARE the scene). What makes you people think Blizzard is willing to spend millions running the teams? Blizzard is in it for the money, just like Kespa.
If the corporate sponsors that run Kespa don't feel like the E-Sports industry isn't worth giving Blizzard what they desire, we'll be left with Blizzard and GomTV running the scene with what is left over from the scene. A bunch of unpaid teenagers. No television coverage. Falling interest from the Korean viewers. It doesn't matter how good Starcaft 2 is. We'll have to start all over, and there's no guarantee that it'll work again this time. Blizzard are money hungry whores. At least Kespa doesn't hide it.
Dude, you do realize that Blizzard owns the game? Kespa are people who want to maximize their control on the whole thing, now blizzard doesn't agree with that. IMO Its has always been their game, so I dont think that blizzard will ruin everything they have for money eh?
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On May 27 2010 17:36 DragoonPK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 17:24 Letmelose wrote:
There's not enough money in E-Sports for everyone to have a big piece of the pie.
Here is how big the scene is.
There are two cable channels dedicated to the coverage of E-Sports; OGN and MBC Game. Each broadcasting channel has an individual league, but that's not where the money is. The money is in the Proleague, with the corporate sponsored teams duking it out for glory. The corporations that are funding the teams ARE Kespa, and they OWN the players. They get no direct profit from the scene other than the exposure they get on television.
GomTV has no television channel of their own. It's just an internet broadcasting system. While it makes no difference for the average non-Korean viewer. It is a HUGE difference for the Koreans. Yes, the hardcore fans will follow professional Starcraft no matter what the media is, but do you expect the corporate sponsors to keep the scene alive simply for the fans? Total bullshit. They're in it for the air time on television and public relations reasons.
I don't give two shits about bunch of money hungry whores playing their ego battles for what they feel they deserve, but what I DO care for is the scene that the PLAYERS have created through their dedication, their inhuman skills and passion for the game in general. The conditions under which they play are mind boggling, and not at all lucrative for the effort they put in, but things are better than they were before. You know why? Because E-Sports in Korea has developed from a select few gamers going around looking for tournament prizes to rake in, to having corporate sponsored teams that pays them (not much, unfortunately, in most cases) for what they do.
The moment the corporate sponsors lose control over the scene, that serves no function (in their minds) other than getting them exposure to nationwide younger audiences, I wouldn't be surprised if they ditched the scene for Blizzard to deal with. Or even worse, leave the scene in ruins, with Korea's finest gaming minds not able to showcase their skills ANYWHERE if Kespa makes them uphold their contracts with their teams (that are controlled by Kespa).
FUCK THAT. Fuck the English commentary by GomTV. Fuck Blizzard for getting their share. Fuck Starcaft 2. Blizzard doesn't feed the scene. Blizzard didn't create the scene. There's already one money hungry whore running the scene for what little market it has (it's NOT that big I assure you), but at least it is willing to keep the teams running (and the teams pay the players, and the players ARE the scene). What makes you people think Blizzard is willing to spend millions running the teams? Blizzard is in it for the money, just like Kespa.
If the corporate sponsors that run Kespa don't feel like the E-Sports industry isn't worth giving Blizzard what they desire, we'll be left with Blizzard and GomTV running the scene with what is left over from the scene. A bunch of unpaid teenagers. No television coverage. Falling interest from the Korean viewers. It doesn't matter how good Starcaft 2 is. We'll have to start all over, and there's no guarantee that it'll work again this time. Blizzard are money hungry whores. At least Kespa doesn't hide it. Dude, you do realize that Blizzard owns the game? Kespa are people who want to maximize their control on the whole thing, now blizzard doesn't agree with that. IMO Its has always been their game, so I dont think that blizzard will ruin everything they have for money eh?
Wich business company wouldn't do so if there is profit to be made ?
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On May 27 2010 17:33 fallingdream wrote:
what Kespa did, organize tournaments, every decent company can do that
There is a difference between organizing tournaments and running a succesful Pro-League. The latter involves gaining enough sponsorship $$$ and fan interest such that the players can practice full time with a professional salary.
Tournaments for SC1 are organized world wide - but why aren't there Pro-Leagues worldwide for SC1?
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Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
@ fallingdream -> I don't think it's that anyone really likes Kespa here, it's just Kespa staying in their current position is the best to ensure that progaming as we know it continues. It's still a very, very fragile system that could easily be dealt a killing blow with one mis-step.
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On May 27 2010 17:15 StarcraftMan wrote:
For those that are cheering for Blizzard, I hope you realize this is a big risk and Starcraft 1 and 2 as an E-sport MAY FAIL.
1) If Blizzard leaves KESPA alone -> KESPA will make Starcraft 2 into a successful Pro-League in Korea, GUARANTEED. That is what KESPA does and they almost have a decade of experience doing this.
2) If Blizzard and GOMtv try to do this -> they may or may not succeed in turning Starcraft 2 into a successful E-sport.
Blizzard has NO EXPERIENCE AND NO TRACK RECORD of creating a successful Pro-League. Heck, Blizzard can't even make SC1 or WC3 into a pro-league in their own backyard, the United States. I give them 50/50 for being able to establish a successful Pro-League in Korea, which isn't their backyard (like the USA), and where they have no strong relationship with the sponsors, networks, media, fans, etc.
While I agree that KESPA has more management experience in this particular situation, I have little faith in KESPA's stance on little but still important things. Things like: corruption, collusion and things like open-contracts to protect the players from being forced to do things they don't want to (like pro-league players forbidden to talk to Blizzard).
If Kespa can't respect something as simple as intellectual property what makes you think they'll respect the more important things.. like the human beings that compete and put on a show for the rest of us while Kespa rakes it in? Sure the players got paid, but like I said, at what cost?
Kespa is unreasonable and the fact that they can't even come to the table with the creators of this game (yes lets not forget that without blizzard, there wouldn't be a starcraft, let alone kespa). Blizzard played soft-ball with them. Don't want to play? Fine, build my own fucking baseball diamond and lets play some hard-ball. You want in my stadium? Pay at the door. It could have been Kespa's stadium too but guess what? They thought their open-field was the only place to play baseball. Too bad Kespa, was nice knowing you.. .NOT... die in a fire.
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As long as a percentage of earnings from WoW goes straight for the good of ESPORTS, I'm all for this move. Otherwise, leave everything to KeSPA.
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On May 27 2010 17:37 EvilTeletubby wrote:
@ fallingdream -> I don't think it's that anyone really likes Kespa here, it's just Kespa staying in their current position is the best to ensure that progaming as we know it continues. It's still a very, very fragile system that could easily be dealt a killing blow with one mis-step.
That is the truth. All this is fragile. Everyone that didn't see it yet, should go watch the OGN casters interview that was translated.
Esport's future wasn't ever bright, however, tons of hundreds of people worked to make it happen over there against the odds.
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I will cum my pants immediately if I see Super Daniel Man and Tasteless return. THEY ARE THE BEST DUO EVER
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On May 27 2010 17:33 fallingdream wrote:
Have all the ppl who are taking Kespa's side forgot the amount of bullshit they pulled these past years? How many retarded decisions did they make, and the way they killed GomTV SC tournaments? Kespa made SC into an esport? REALLY? Didn't Kespa try to do the same thing with war3 and failed? Guess why? First, the game, war3, micro intensive at it is, it's boring to watch, farming creeps for items and xp and then tp'ing out takes away A LOT from the excitement of the game. Second, and in my opinion, the most important thing, the players and the quality of the "show" they produced. Even though I hate him with a burning passion, if it wasn't for Boxer, SC wouldn't be here where it is today. Of course Boxer is not the only one who helped SC grow, there are so many many more players like Yellow, Reach, Nal_Ra, Nada etc., my point is, what Kespa did, organize tournaments, every decent company can do that. In my opinion the GomTV tournaments were really good. Quality players, cast in English, no drama, no retarded decisions, what more can you hope for?
I am REALLY happy that Kespa will die because of this, and they cannot win no matter how hard they try, SC is Blizzard's game, and they can do whatever they want with it, there's no two ways about it.
> They can do whatever they want with it.
Is this a good thing? They'll hold a monopoly. A player BMs another, causing drama (cough cough FBH)? Well, Blizzard will just get him fired. Blizzard has no experience in this area; Blizzcon and WWI are awful. No doubt they'll try and advertise WoW everywhere.
Kespa made SC an esport because they had good tournaments, good players in the brackets, good spectator numbers (ie, they have large numbers of available seats). Despite the amount of hate KesPA gets, they've done a brilliant job of spreading esports, even though they do screw up, but I can assure you that they won't screw up as much as Blizzard, who's thoughts on esports are to hire a WoW arena tournament manager.
Also, KesPA might have killed of GOMTV - but Blizzard are trying to kill off PL, MSL, OSL and all other leagues.
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I am just glad that the silent stand off between Blizz and Kespa is over and things started finally to move. Let's see what actually will happen.
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On May 27 2010 17:36 DragoonPK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 17:24 Letmelose wrote:
There's not enough money in E-Sports for everyone to have a big piece of the pie.
Here is how big the scene is.
There are two cable channels dedicated to the coverage of E-Sports; OGN and MBC Game. Each broadcasting channel has an individual league, but that's not where the money is. The money is in the Proleague, with the corporate sponsored teams duking it out for glory. The corporations that are funding the teams ARE Kespa, and they OWN the players. They get no direct profit from the scene other than the exposure they get on television.
GomTV has no television channel of their own. It's just an internet broadcasting system. While it makes no difference for the average non-Korean viewer. It is a HUGE difference for the Koreans. Yes, the hardcore fans will follow professional Starcraft no matter what the media is, but do you expect the corporate sponsors to keep the scene alive simply for the fans? Total bullshit. They're in it for the air time on television and public relations reasons.
I don't give two shits about bunch of money hungry whores playing their ego battles for what they feel they deserve, but what I DO care for is the scene that the PLAYERS have created through their dedication, their inhuman skills and passion for the game in general. The conditions under which they play are mind boggling, and not at all lucrative for the effort they put in, but things are better than they were before. You know why? Because E-Sports in Korea has developed from a select few gamers going around looking for tournament prizes to rake in, to having corporate sponsored teams that pays them (not much, unfortunately, in most cases) for what they do.
The moment the corporate sponsors lose control over the scene, that serves no function (in their minds) other than getting them exposure to nationwide younger audiences, I wouldn't be surprised if they ditched the scene for Blizzard to deal with. Or even worse, leave the scene in ruins, with Korea's finest gaming minds not able to showcase their skills ANYWHERE if Kespa makes them uphold their contracts with their teams (that are controlled by Kespa).
FUCK THAT. Fuck the English commentary by GomTV. Fuck Blizzard for getting their share. Fuck Starcaft 2. Blizzard doesn't feed the scene. Blizzard didn't create the scene. There's already one money hungry whore running the scene for what little market it has (it's NOT that big I assure you), but at least it is willing to keep the teams running (and the teams pay the players, and the players ARE the scene). What makes you people think Blizzard is willing to spend millions running the teams? Blizzard is in it for the money, just like Kespa.
If the corporate sponsors that run Kespa don't feel like the E-Sports industry isn't worth giving Blizzard what they desire, we'll be left with Blizzard and GomTV running the scene with what is left over from the scene. A bunch of unpaid teenagers. No television coverage. Falling interest from the Korean viewers. It doesn't matter how good Starcaft 2 is. We'll have to start all over, and there's no guarantee that it'll work again this time. Blizzard are money hungry whores. At least Kespa doesn't hide it. Dude, you do realize that Blizzard owns the game? Kespa are people who want to maximize their control on the whole thing, now blizzard doesn't agree with that. IMO Its has always been their game, so I dont think that blizzard will ruin everything they have for money eh?
Simple concept really.
1. Blizzard made the game.
2. Gamers attracted enough interest through their play and drama involved with it to get television coverage.
3. Years of television coverage slowly lead way to corporate sponsors paying for hundreds of gamers.
4. Blizzard wants a share.
5. Nope, the scene isn't lucrative enough for everyone to be happy with their share.
6. If Blizzard makes things a bitch, the corporate sponsors will leave the scene.
7. No television coverage. Hundreds of now unemployed gamers with no where to go. Bunch of contracts that might render them unable to play in non-Kespa tournaments. You see, Blizzard might own the game, but Kespa owns the gamers.
8. Blizzard continues making money off WoW and Starcraft 2 elsewhere. Professional Brood War in Korea is left in ruins.
I don't like. I don't give a flying fuck about what Blizzard feels like they deserve.
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On May 27 2010 17:48 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 17:36 DragoonPK wrote:On May 27 2010 17:24 Letmelose wrote:
There's not enough money in E-Sports for everyone to have a big piece of the pie.
Here is how big the scene is.
There are two cable channels dedicated to the coverage of E-Sports; OGN and MBC Game. Each broadcasting channel has an individual league, but that's not where the money is. The money is in the Proleague, with the corporate sponsored teams duking it out for glory. The corporations that are funding the teams ARE Kespa, and they OWN the players. They get no direct profit from the scene other than the exposure they get on television.
GomTV has no television channel of their own. It's just an internet broadcasting system. While it makes no difference for the average non-Korean viewer. It is a HUGE difference for the Koreans. Yes, the hardcore fans will follow professional Starcraft no matter what the media is, but do you expect the corporate sponsors to keep the scene alive simply for the fans? Total bullshit. They're in it for the air time on television and public relations reasons.
I don't give two shits about bunch of money hungry whores playing their ego battles for what they feel they deserve, but what I DO care for is the scene that the PLAYERS have created through their dedication, their inhuman skills and passion for the game in general. The conditions under which they play are mind boggling, and not at all lucrative for the effort they put in, but things are better than they were before. You know why? Because E-Sports in Korea has developed from a select few gamers going around looking for tournament prizes to rake in, to having corporate sponsored teams that pays them (not much, unfortunately, in most cases) for what they do.
The moment the corporate sponsors lose control over the scene, that serves no function (in their minds) other than getting them exposure to nationwide younger audiences, I wouldn't be surprised if they ditched the scene for Blizzard to deal with. Or even worse, leave the scene in ruins, with Korea's finest gaming minds not able to showcase their skills ANYWHERE if Kespa makes them uphold their contracts with their teams (that are controlled by Kespa).
FUCK THAT. Fuck the English commentary by GomTV. Fuck Blizzard for getting their share. Fuck Starcaft 2. Blizzard doesn't feed the scene. Blizzard didn't create the scene. There's already one money hungry whore running the scene for what little market it has (it's NOT that big I assure you), but at least it is willing to keep the teams running (and the teams pay the players, and the players ARE the scene). What makes you people think Blizzard is willing to spend millions running the teams? Blizzard is in it for the money, just like Kespa.
If the corporate sponsors that run Kespa don't feel like the E-Sports industry isn't worth giving Blizzard what they desire, we'll be left with Blizzard and GomTV running the scene with what is left over from the scene. A bunch of unpaid teenagers. No television coverage. Falling interest from the Korean viewers. It doesn't matter how good Starcaft 2 is. We'll have to start all over, and there's no guarantee that it'll work again this time. Blizzard are money hungry whores. At least Kespa doesn't hide it. Dude, you do realize that Blizzard owns the game? Kespa are people who want to maximize their control on the whole thing, now blizzard doesn't agree with that. IMO Its has always been their game, so I dont think that blizzard will ruin everything they have for money eh? Simple concept really. 1. Blizzard made the game. 2. Gamers attracted enough interest through their play and drama involved with it to get television coverage. 3. Years of television coverage slowly lead way to corporate sponsors paying for hundreds of gamers. 4. Blizzard wants a share. 5. Nope, the scene isn't lucrative enough for everyone to be happy with their share. 6. If Blizzard makes things a bitch, the corporate sponsors will leave the scene. 7. No television coverage. Hundreds of now unemployed gamers with no where to go. Bunch of contracts that might render them unable to play in non-Kespa tournaments. You see, Blizzard might own the game, but Kespa owns the gamers. 8. Blizzard continues making money off WoW and Starcraft 2 elsewhere. Professional Brood War in Korea is left in ruins. I don't like. I don't give a flying fuck about what Blizzard feels like they deserve.
This. Honestly, since Activision bought majority share in Blizzard, they've been sliding down into being my most hated developer.
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On May 27 2010 17:29 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 17:27 Eury wrote:On May 27 2010 17:20 Boonbag wrote:On May 27 2010 17:18 Eury wrote:On May 27 2010 17:11 Plexa wrote:On May 27 2010 16:59 FrozenArbiter wrote:On May 27 2010 16:51 heishe wrote:On May 27 2010 16:47 Boonbag wrote:On May 27 2010 16:46 heishe wrote:On May 27 2010 15:58 Plexa wrote:
[quote]Pretty much this. My gut says this is all going to end horribly and we're all going to lose out because of it.
how do you always come to the conclusion that wc3 "died"? yes, it's not that big in korea, but it's a million times more popular than bw in all of europe, china, russia etc. (leaving out the usa cause the only thing that's big there is halo , lol). War3 isn't pro gaming. War3 is world gaming. War3 has no broadcasting culture. It's not really that difficult to understand. rofl. pure bullshit. User was warned for this post Uhhh, why was he warned for this post? If you're going to call bullshit, debunk it. Usually the burden of proof lies on whoever makes the claim and not the other way around. You guys are all seriously ill. Korea ? MBC ? OGN ? Pro gaming ? Stadiums ? Tons of TV leagues ? Wake up ? Where's War3 in all that ? Oh god everything is gonna crumble. Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know you had to be big in Korea to be classified as progaming. In China you have pro Warcraft 3 teams, you have Warcraft 3 tournaments being played in stadiums, and they are getting broadcasted. Anyway that was beside the point of my post. According to Plexa the burden of proof seems to be not on whoever makes a claim or statement no matter how outrageous it is, instead it is up to whoever that disagree with that assessment to provide the evidence to invalid that claim. Which is completely backwards. China's situation towards pro gaming is about what Korean pro gaming was back in 1999 - 2000 and wont ever evolve from that for war3. Now with sc2 who knows. And this is a gaming forum, not a fucking court of justice jesus. I try making my point when its really needed. EDIT : I swear a crap ton tho. But that's because I mainly fail at English. Don't you find it funny that the best paid war3 player moon, is sponsored by a Korean pro sc team ?
Don't you find it funny Moon was in meet your makers before he joined we made fox?
Moon already had an insane wager in mym.
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EPT
