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On May 27 2010 17:11 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 16:59 FrozenArbiter wrote:On May 27 2010 16:51 heishe wrote:On May 27 2010 16:47 Boonbag wrote:On May 27 2010 16:46 heishe wrote:On May 27 2010 15:58 Plexa wrote:On May 27 2010 15:12 Go0g3n wrote:
A few things to consider:
1. Everything that's now happening with StarCraft II already happened with WarCraft III before and right after release. It also was a brand new exciting game with new graphics, new B.net features, new editor and so on so forth. It had LAN, 4 Realms. Blizzard swore they would add custom maps to the roster, - you know what happened later, the game basically died after 2-3 years, now HoN + Dota are 10 times more popular. (btw War 3 didn't sell that well either).
2. Blizzard has never ever done anything to properly support any of their games with the exception of WoW. Patches were always late and buggy, they never updated or reworked Battle.net, next to 0 counter-abuse and all the rest of it.
3. Everything that was done around Diablo II, StarCraft, War III and partially WoW was done by community using an open source element put in all those games and/or resources around the game, it was done by community only and never supported by Blizzard in any way, often attempted to destroy by the same old Blizz.
Verdict: Blizzard makes decent (some say great) games, which is more than true. However, they are completely useless as community organizers, activists or supporters, - the role they've taken onto themselves in the past and failed miserably, the role they are taking onto themselves once again: from all the B.net 2.0/Editor/Publishing/Lan/Realms/Private Data limitations to all the GOM/KeSPA stuff. They simply do not know how it's done. Pretty much this. My gut says this is all going to end horribly and we're all going to lose out because of it. how do you always come to the conclusion that wc3 "died"? yes, it's not that big in korea, but it's a million times more popular than bw in all of europe, china, russia etc. (leaving out the usa cause the only thing that's big there is halo , lol). War3 isn't pro gaming. War3 is world gaming. War3 has no broadcasting culture. It's not really that difficult to understand. rofl. pure bullshit. User was warned for this post Uhhh, why was he warned for this post? If you're going to call bullshit, debunk it.
since Boonbag made the claim, he should provide proof of his claims about War3.
At least in any good argument that is how it'd work.
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On May 27 2010 17:07 Necrosjef wrote:
This is never gonna happen.
KeSPA have the law on their side.
Blizzard are just greedy trying to get some of the action.
This announcement won't change anything. KeSPA will challenge this in court and win then Blizzard won't be left with a leg to stand on. Korean law heavily favours KeSPA here.
I've been saying this for my last few posts, but no one seems to be talking about it.
I really don't see how Blizzard can recover any future damages in Korea. They'd have to go to Korea to enforce the contract between themselves and GOM, to which the Korean government will likely have KeSPA resolve. Either that or they will favor KeSPA. THere is no way Blizzard can stop KeSPA from broadcasting or selling the broadcasting rights of any SC2 games in Korea.
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Conversely, if the Korean fans are miffed by Blizzard trying to take control, SC2 will not take off in Korea.
I know Blizzard has partnered up with Gom before... but really? GOM? That's like forcing MLB to approach the minor leagues for permission to broadcast. GOM is not even a game channel, and is probably more well known for their kdrama than other things.
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Okay... I read almost everything in this thread and I came into the realization that Blizzard are dumbfucks trying to fit themselves into Korea. If they really want global eSports, they should have just left KeSPA alone and established their own foundation on some other country. There is practically nothing wrong with Korean progaming. Blizzard just made a huge fuss by pulling out some BS and they know they're just going to make extra cash by beating KeSPA in the law battle.
In short, they're trying to fix what isn't broken.
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On May 27 2010 17:09 iloahz wrote:
Only read the OP, but does this mean the SC1 progaming as we know will end, no PL no OSL no MSL?
I think it rather means they'll be in court for a while and that SC2 wont pop up on OGN and MBC meanwhile.
I also think it's quite dangerous for SC2 to go through GOM. War3 was launched on OGN and MBC right while the beta was taking place, but it didn't quite work out.
Now a game exposure on GOM will likely be less than what it would've been on either OGN or MBC, so I don't see this good for sc2's future in Korea anyway.
What I really don't get is that, there's really no big money to be made in Pro gaming, and this is the pure reason why it hasn't conquered the rest of the world yet.
I just think Blizzard believes Esports can bring money in and can be milked or serve as their own advertisement. They're very wrong.
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On May 27 2010 17:07 Necrosjef wrote:
This is never gonna happen.
KeSPA have the law on their side.
Blizzard are just greedy trying to get some of the action.
This announcement won't change anything. KeSPA will challenge this in court and win then Blizzard won't be left with a leg to stand on. Korean law heavily favours KeSPA here.
I have to admit, I'm not exactly well versed in Korean law, but what exactly does KeSPA have going for them?
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On May 27 2010 17:07 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 17:04 Garrl wrote:Blizzard and Gretech-GomTV signed a partnership contract which gives GomTV the exclusive rights to operate and broadcast tournaments for ALL Blizzard games in Korea. This means OnGameNet and MBCGame no longer have the right to broadcast nor operate their leagues (MSL, OSL, PL), nor does KeSPA have the right to operate their league (PL). However, Blizzard is allowing them to continue to operate their leagues until August, which is the end of this proleague season. What the HELL? They can't operate MSL, OSL or PL for SC1? If Blizzard do that, I definately won't be buying SC2. hint: GOM is owned by CJ. GOM can negotiate with other parties GUESS WHAT ORGANIZATION CJ IS A PART OF!? This isn't going to kill off Brood War, and Blizzard won't be killing off Brood War. What will kill off Brood War pro scene is if the fans go to SC2 and stop watching Brood War. If its not an advertising boon for the sponsors they will just pull out and go to what is, aka the new game.
Because CJ deciding the whole of esports is a good thing, right? GOM wouldn't want competitors in, so why would they negotiate with other parties?
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On May 27 2010 17:12 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 17:11 Plexa wrote:On May 27 2010 16:59 FrozenArbiter wrote:On May 27 2010 16:51 heishe wrote:On May 27 2010 16:47 Boonbag wrote:On May 27 2010 16:46 heishe wrote:On May 27 2010 15:58 Plexa wrote:On May 27 2010 15:12 Go0g3n wrote:
A few things to consider:
1. Everything that's now happening with StarCraft II already happened with WarCraft III before and right after release. It also was a brand new exciting game with new graphics, new B.net features, new editor and so on so forth. It had LAN, 4 Realms. Blizzard swore they would add custom maps to the roster, - you know what happened later, the game basically died after 2-3 years, now HoN + Dota are 10 times more popular. (btw War 3 didn't sell that well either).
2. Blizzard has never ever done anything to properly support any of their games with the exception of WoW. Patches were always late and buggy, they never updated or reworked Battle.net, next to 0 counter-abuse and all the rest of it.
3. Everything that was done around Diablo II, StarCraft, War III and partially WoW was done by community using an open source element put in all those games and/or resources around the game, it was done by community only and never supported by Blizzard in any way, often attempted to destroy by the same old Blizz.
Verdict: Blizzard makes decent (some say great) games, which is more than true. However, they are completely useless as community organizers, activists or supporters, - the role they've taken onto themselves in the past and failed miserably, the role they are taking onto themselves once again: from all the B.net 2.0/Editor/Publishing/Lan/Realms/Private Data limitations to all the GOM/KeSPA stuff. They simply do not know how it's done. Pretty much this. My gut says this is all going to end horribly and we're all going to lose out because of it. how do you always come to the conclusion that wc3 "died"? yes, it's not that big in korea, but it's a million times more popular than bw in all of europe, china, russia etc. (leaving out the usa cause the only thing that's big there is halo , lol). War3 isn't pro gaming. War3 is world gaming. War3 has no broadcasting culture. It's not really that difficult to understand. rofl. pure bullshit. User was warned for this post Uhhh, why was he warned for this post? If you're going to call bullshit, debunk it. since Boonbag made the claim, he should provide proof of his claims about War3. At least in any good argument that is how it'd work.
Do I really need to point out the difference of war3 and sc pro gaming ?
This is team liquid jesus, not a blizzard sub forum come on =(
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For those that are cheering for Blizzard, I hope you realize this is a big risk and Starcraft 1 and 2 as an E-sport MAY FAIL.
1) If Blizzard leaves KESPA alone -> KESPA will make Starcraft 2 into a successful Pro-League in Korea, GUARANTEED. That is what KESPA does and they almost have a decade of experience doing this.
2) If Blizzard and GOMtv try to do this -> they may or may not succeed in turning Starcraft 2 into a successful E-sport.
Blizzard has NO EXPERIENCE AND NO TRACK RECORD of creating a successful Pro-League. Heck, Blizzard can't even make SC1 or WC3 into a pro-league in their own backyard, the United States. I give them 50/50 for being able to establish a successful Pro-League in Korea, which isn't their backyard (like the USA), and where they have no strong relationship with the sponsors, networks, media, fans, etc.
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it will be hilarious if not even gomtv gets a lan client for their studio
anyways good luck! pay subscription could maybe be worth it towards the end of the season if theres BW and SC2 (yes, i dont mind paying for my entertainment) but gomtv last attempt was a bit steep for what is really just a smaller iptv company.
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On May 27 2010 14:47 Kuri wrote:I'm almost certain that MBC and OGN will successfully negotiate with GOM TV. I just don't see the competitive BW scene without MSL and OSL. This can only be good. *optimistic 
Well guess what? New game is coming out.. Why would blizzard want older game running when they control everything?
Its over..
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Russian Federation410 Posts
One thing that interests me..
If under Korean Law an owner of a game, be it a single customer or organization, can freely organize commercial and non-commercial broadcasts, what's to stop KeSPA or anybody from developing a freeware Lan-mode add-on for the game (not unheard of) and then keep on broadcasting all they want?
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I don't really get. MBC is going to announce the sponsor for the next MSL, but they don't have the rights to run and broadcast the league ?
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On May 27 2010 17:15 StarcraftMan wrote:
For those that are cheering for Blizzard, I hope you realize this is a big risk and Starcraft 1 and 2 as an E-sport MAY FAIL.
1) If Blizzard leaves KESPA alone -> KESPA will make Starcraft 2 into a successful Pro-League in Korea, GUARANTEED. That is what KESPA does and they almost have a decade of experience doing this.
2) If Blizzard and GOMtv try to do this -> they may or may not succeed in turning Starcraft 2 into a successful E-sport.
Blizzard has NO EXPERIENCE AND NO TRACK RECORD of creating a successful Pro-League. Heck, Blizzard can't even make SC1 or WC3 into a pro-league in their own backyard, the United States. I give them 50/50 for being able to establish a successful Pro-League in Korea, which isn't their backyard (like the USA), and where they have no strong relationship with the sponsors, networks, media, fans, etc.
Gom is able and willing to do a sc2 pro league. Blizzard is not actively running a league, this is what Gom is for, thus you do not need to worry.
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On May 27 2010 17:11 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 16:59 FrozenArbiter wrote:On May 27 2010 16:51 heishe wrote:On May 27 2010 16:47 Boonbag wrote:On May 27 2010 16:46 heishe wrote:On May 27 2010 15:58 Plexa wrote:On May 27 2010 15:12 Go0g3n wrote:
A few things to consider:
1. Everything that's now happening with StarCraft II already happened with WarCraft III before and right after release. It also was a brand new exciting game with new graphics, new B.net features, new editor and so on so forth. It had LAN, 4 Realms. Blizzard swore they would add custom maps to the roster, - you know what happened later, the game basically died after 2-3 years, now HoN + Dota are 10 times more popular. (btw War 3 didn't sell that well either).
2. Blizzard has never ever done anything to properly support any of their games with the exception of WoW. Patches were always late and buggy, they never updated or reworked Battle.net, next to 0 counter-abuse and all the rest of it.
3. Everything that was done around Diablo II, StarCraft, War III and partially WoW was done by community using an open source element put in all those games and/or resources around the game, it was done by community only and never supported by Blizzard in any way, often attempted to destroy by the same old Blizz.
Verdict: Blizzard makes decent (some say great) games, which is more than true. However, they are completely useless as community organizers, activists or supporters, - the role they've taken onto themselves in the past and failed miserably, the role they are taking onto themselves once again: from all the B.net 2.0/Editor/Publishing/Lan/Realms/Private Data limitations to all the GOM/KeSPA stuff. They simply do not know how it's done. Pretty much this. My gut says this is all going to end horribly and we're all going to lose out because of it. how do you always come to the conclusion that wc3 "died"? yes, it's not that big in korea, but it's a million times more popular than bw in all of europe, china, russia etc. (leaving out the usa cause the only thing that's big there is halo , lol). War3 isn't pro gaming. War3 is world gaming. War3 has no broadcasting culture. It's not really that difficult to understand. rofl. pure bullshit. User was warned for this post Uhhh, why was he warned for this post? If you're going to call bullshit, debunk it.
Usually the burden of proof lies on whoever makes the claim and not the other way around.
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On May 27 2010 17:16 Go0g3n wrote:
One thing that interests me..
If under Korean Law an owner of a game, be it a single customer or organization, can freely organize commercial and non-commercial broadcasts, what's to stop KeSPA or anybody from developing a freeware Lan-mode add-on for the game (not unheard of) and then keep on broadcasting all they want?
I always wondered the same. I also wondered why they never actually tried to design a new RTS to fit Esports even better than sc.
Korea has bazillion game companies, how come they didn't produce anything for that purpose yet.
(They tried back then around 2000-2001 but failed hardcore.)
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On May 27 2010 17:18 Eury wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 17:11 Plexa wrote:On May 27 2010 16:59 FrozenArbiter wrote:On May 27 2010 16:51 heishe wrote:On May 27 2010 16:47 Boonbag wrote:On May 27 2010 16:46 heishe wrote:On May 27 2010 15:58 Plexa wrote:On May 27 2010 15:12 Go0g3n wrote:
A few things to consider:
1. Everything that's now happening with StarCraft II already happened with WarCraft III before and right after release. It also was a brand new exciting game with new graphics, new B.net features, new editor and so on so forth. It had LAN, 4 Realms. Blizzard swore they would add custom maps to the roster, - you know what happened later, the game basically died after 2-3 years, now HoN + Dota are 10 times more popular. (btw War 3 didn't sell that well either).
2. Blizzard has never ever done anything to properly support any of their games with the exception of WoW. Patches were always late and buggy, they never updated or reworked Battle.net, next to 0 counter-abuse and all the rest of it.
3. Everything that was done around Diablo II, StarCraft, War III and partially WoW was done by community using an open source element put in all those games and/or resources around the game, it was done by community only and never supported by Blizzard in any way, often attempted to destroy by the same old Blizz.
Verdict: Blizzard makes decent (some say great) games, which is more than true. However, they are completely useless as community organizers, activists or supporters, - the role they've taken onto themselves in the past and failed miserably, the role they are taking onto themselves once again: from all the B.net 2.0/Editor/Publishing/Lan/Realms/Private Data limitations to all the GOM/KeSPA stuff. They simply do not know how it's done. Pretty much this. My gut says this is all going to end horribly and we're all going to lose out because of it. how do you always come to the conclusion that wc3 "died"? yes, it's not that big in korea, but it's a million times more popular than bw in all of europe, china, russia etc. (leaving out the usa cause the only thing that's big there is halo , lol). War3 isn't pro gaming. War3 is world gaming. War3 has no broadcasting culture. It's not really that difficult to understand. rofl. pure bullshit. User was warned for this post Uhhh, why was he warned for this post? If you're going to call bullshit, debunk it. Usually the burden of proof lies on whoever makes the claim and not the other way around.
You guys are all seriously ill. Korea ? MBC ? OGN ? Pro gaming ? Stadiums ? Tons of TV leagues ? Wake up ?
Where's War3 in all that ?
Oh god everything is gonna crumble.
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Blizzard cares about BW only because BW's fans are potential sc2 players. It's logic we can't blame them about it. They really don't care about "BW risk".. Selling sc2 copies is their goal.
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On May 27 2010 17:20 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 17:18 Eury wrote:On May 27 2010 17:11 Plexa wrote:On May 27 2010 16:59 FrozenArbiter wrote:On May 27 2010 16:51 heishe wrote:On May 27 2010 16:47 Boonbag wrote:On May 27 2010 16:46 heishe wrote:On May 27 2010 15:58 Plexa wrote:On May 27 2010 15:12 Go0g3n wrote:
A few things to consider:
1. Everything that's now happening with StarCraft II already happened with WarCraft III before and right after release. It also was a brand new exciting game with new graphics, new B.net features, new editor and so on so forth. It had LAN, 4 Realms. Blizzard swore they would add custom maps to the roster, - you know what happened later, the game basically died after 2-3 years, now HoN + Dota are 10 times more popular. (btw War 3 didn't sell that well either).
2. Blizzard has never ever done anything to properly support any of their games with the exception of WoW. Patches were always late and buggy, they never updated or reworked Battle.net, next to 0 counter-abuse and all the rest of it.
3. Everything that was done around Diablo II, StarCraft, War III and partially WoW was done by community using an open source element put in all those games and/or resources around the game, it was done by community only and never supported by Blizzard in any way, often attempted to destroy by the same old Blizz.
Verdict: Blizzard makes decent (some say great) games, which is more than true. However, they are completely useless as community organizers, activists or supporters, - the role they've taken onto themselves in the past and failed miserably, the role they are taking onto themselves once again: from all the B.net 2.0/Editor/Publishing/Lan/Realms/Private Data limitations to all the GOM/KeSPA stuff. They simply do not know how it's done. Pretty much this. My gut says this is all going to end horribly and we're all going to lose out because of it. how do you always come to the conclusion that wc3 "died"? yes, it's not that big in korea, but it's a million times more popular than bw in all of europe, china, russia etc. (leaving out the usa cause the only thing that's big there is halo , lol). War3 isn't pro gaming. War3 is world gaming. War3 has no broadcasting culture. It's not really that difficult to understand. rofl. pure bullshit. User was warned for this post Uhhh, why was he warned for this post? If you're going to call bullshit, debunk it. Usually the burden of proof lies on whoever makes the claim and not the other way around. You guys are all seriously ill. Korea ? MBC ? OGN ? Pro gaming ? Stadiums ? Tons of TV leagues ? Wake up ? Where's War3 in all that ? Oh god everything is gonna crumble.
It's the argument that the effect is the same it'll have when Blizzard attempt to take control - War 3, which was popular in certain places (China mainly) had become an esport, but Blizzard screwed it up (with patches... see BlademasterCraft, where, despite the game being HILARIOUSLY favouring Orcs, Blizzard did nothing) and demanded control.
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There's not enough money in E-Sports for everyone to have a big piece of the pie.
Here is how big the scene is.
There are two cable channels dedicated to the coverage of E-Sports; OGN and MBC Game. Each broadcasting channel has an individual league, but that's not where the money is. The money is in the Proleague, with the corporate sponsored teams duking it out for glory. The corporations that are funding the teams ARE Kespa, and they OWN the players. They get no direct profit from the scene other than the exposure they get on television.
GomTV has no television channel of their own. It's just an internet broadcasting system. While it makes no difference for the average non-Korean viewer. It is a HUGE difference for the Koreans. Yes, the hardcore fans will follow professional Starcraft no matter what the media is, but do you expect the corporate sponsors to keep the scene alive simply for the fans? Total bullshit. They're in it for the air time on television and public relations reasons.
I don't give two shits about bunch of money hungry whores playing their ego battles for what they feel they deserve, but what I DO care for is the scene that the PLAYERS have created through their dedication, their inhuman skills and passion for the game in general. The conditions under which they play are mind boggling, and not at all lucrative for the effort they put in, but things are better than they were before. You know why? Because E-Sports in Korea has developed from a select few gamers going around looking for tournament prizes to rake in, to having corporate sponsored teams that pays them (not much, unfortunately, in most cases) for what they do.
The moment the corporate sponsors lose control over the scene, that serves no function (in their minds) other than getting them exposure to nationwide younger audiences, I wouldn't be surprised if they ditched the scene for Blizzard to deal with. Or even worse, leave the scene in ruins, with Korea's finest gaming minds not able to showcase their skills ANYWHERE if Kespa makes them uphold their contracts with their teams (that are controlled by Kespa).
FUCK THAT. Fuck the English commentary by GomTV. Fuck Blizzard for getting their share. Fuck Starcaft 2. Blizzard doesn't feed the scene. Blizzard didn't create the scene. There's already one money hungry whore running the scene for what little market it has (it's NOT that big I assure you), but at least it is willing to keep the teams running (and the teams pay the players, and the players ARE the scene). What makes you people think Blizzard is willing to spend millions running the teams? Blizzard is in it for the money, just like Kespa.
If the corporate sponsors that run Kespa don't feel like the E-Sports industry isn't worth giving Blizzard what they desire, we'll be left with Blizzard and GomTV running the scene with what is left over from the scene. A bunch of unpaid teenagers. No television coverage. Falling interest from the Korean viewers. It doesn't matter how good Starcaft 2 is. We'll have to start all over, and there's no guarantee that it'll work again this time. Blizzard are money hungry whores. At least Kespa doesn't hide it.
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