EPTLogitech G13 (and other Gamepads) Discussion - Page 5
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SzaszaG
Hungary120 Posts
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SuperGnu
Sweden240 Posts
On September 16 2010 03:11 SzaszaG wrote: I've made a Topic about Input Devices and not just about GamePads here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=153170 Nice post but the last Poll is a bit weird as the only "No" option indicates that the person will try some or all of em out later. | ||
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SzaszaG
Hungary120 Posts
Although I'm glad if people will try to use them from now on, cause the World is Moving =) | ||
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karatedave
Canada1 Post
I've been using the G13 since November '10 and I have tried a number of different setups. At the beginning it was actually only detrimental until I stumbled across a [popular social media site] video by a guy I think is named thethinkinggamer. He pointed out how he put his sc profile on grid and after deciphering his close up on the montior showing his layout I put it on mine. After about a month of playing I tweaked it slightly and I have a hard time going back to a keyboard now. I'll do my best to describe the setup below starting from the top row to bottom with each key separated by hyphens. BckSpace - Tab - Q - W - E - R - T Space - 3 - A - S - D - F - G Shift - C - V - B - 8 Cntrl - F1 - T Left of joystick button: Z (Ability 1 & basic building) Below joystick button: X (Ability 2 & advanced) Left / up / right / down of joystick: 5, 6, 7, 4 Joystick pushed down button: T Cntl Group config: 1 / 2 / 3: hatch 1/ hatch 2/ hatch 3 4: all queens + all tech buildings 5: army 1 (usually lings) 6: army 2 (usually muta/roaches/hydras) 7: army 3 (Infestors) 8: ground scout 9: active tumours 0: overseer I have a coolmaster sentry mouse with 4 programmable buttons that I put 1 / 2 / 3 & 0 (I turn screen scrolling off and I binded the mouse button to a side button for easy panning of the screen - another technique that hurt my play for about a month before I began to benefit from having zero screen scrolling) Immediately after the purchase I'll admit I was worried I wouldn't find a good sc2 use for it, but these days I can't play without it. I experimented with macro loops for auto-droning and auto-pumping lings but this only causes huge gaps to show up in your play so don't bother. I do not recommend it, regardless of its' legal outlook. It just encourages sloppy play. I notice the original poster mentioned that they need more than one layer of commands to make the g13 work for them. I find this setup is ideal because it allows one to use every function on a single layer. I realize the layout depiction may be hard to read but i wrote this on my iPhone so I hope it makes sense and that I'm not breaking any rules by bumping the subject - I just really wanted to share this bc it makes this game so much more comfortable to play with every action a twitch away. I highly recommend it - and not just for sc2. | ||
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ThinkinGamer
United States6 Posts
On June 10 2011 05:30 karatedave wrote: Hey folks - not sure if I'll get warned/purged/prosecuted for putting in my 2 bits about my experience with the g13 - but here goes! I've been using the G13 since November '10 and I have tried a number of different setups. At the beginning it was actually only detrimental until I stumbled across a [popular social media site] video by a guy I think is named thethinkinggamer. He pointed out how he put his sc profile on grid and after deciphering his close up on the montior showing his layout I put it on mine. After about a month of playing I tweaked it slightly and I have a hard time going back to a keyboard now. I'll do my best to describe the setup below starting from the top row to bottom with each key separated by hyphens. BckSpace - Tab - Q - W - E - R - T Space - 3 - A - S - D - F - G Shift - C - V - B - 8 Cntrl - F1 - T Left of joystick button: Z (Ability 1 & basic building) Below joystick button: X (Ability 2 & advanced) Left / up / right / down of joystick: 5, 6, 7, 4 Joystick pushed down button: T Cntl Group config: 1 / 2 / 3: hatch 1/ hatch 2/ hatch 3 4: all queens + all tech buildings 5: army 1 (usually lings) 6: army 2 (usually muta/roaches/hydras) 7: army 3 (Infestors) 8: ground scout 9: active tumours 0: overseer I have a coolmaster sentry mouse with 4 programmable buttons that I put 1 / 2 / 3 & 0 (I turn screen scrolling off and I binded the mouse button to a side button for easy panning of the screen - another technique that hurt my play for about a month before I began to benefit from having zero screen scrolling) Immediately after the purchase I'll admit I was worried I wouldn't find a good sc2 use for it, but these days I can't play without it. I experimented with macro loops for auto-droning and auto-pumping lings but this only causes huge gaps to show up in your play so don't bother. I do not recommend it, regardless of its' legal outlook. It just encourages sloppy play. I notice the original poster mentioned that they need more than one layer of commands to make the g13 work for them. I find this setup is ideal because it allows one to use every function on a single layer. I realize the layout depiction may be hard to read but i wrote this on my iPhone so I hope it makes sense and that I'm not breaking any rules by bumping the subject - I just really wanted to share this bc it makes this game so much more comfortable to play with every action a twitch away. I highly recommend it - and not just for sc2. Glad you found my video on the g13 useful. For those interested in seeing it you can find it here: Now I suppose I will give my opinion on gamepad type devices. As many have already pointed out, many "gaming" keyboards also have the ability to reassign keys and setup macros with many of them including extra macro keys (think g19 keyboard or even the razer black widow). In my opinion this makes the argument pointless, that using a gamepad is unfair because it can allow a player to setup macros when many keyboards also allow the same thing. With that logic many many keyboards should also be banned from competitive play. When you use a gamepad over a keyboard, I don't feel that it gives anyone an unfair advantage so long as macros are not used on either the gamepad or keyboard. Both take time to get used to and to get efficient with and both have their advantages and disadvantages. Many people fail to realize that using a gamepad can put you at a marked disadvantage due to the limited amount of keys at your disposal and many people will find they have issues finding enough keys for your control groups. With that said, I feel that gamepads are far more ergonomic and relive tension in your hands from long play sessions. I feel that it is far easier (with practice) to actually perform quicker on a keyboard than on a gamepad due to many peoples familiarity with the keyboard already (it really does take significant practice to get good with a gamepad). I have tweaked and retweaked my g13 and mouse layout for efficiency many many times trying to find the most optimal and useful layout of keys. After much testing and practice this is how I have mine laid out: http://i.imgur.com/bKuPl.jpg I feel that it is near impossible to use a gamepad type device on any other setting than GRID layout due to the limited number of keys available. On standard you would need 3 different profiles for each of the three races and switching between profile midgame is just not a realistic option. Also note that you run into issues with the v and b keys as your short one key on the g13 forcing you to think of new ways to handle the issue as b is used for cancel and v is used by terrans for lifting and landing buildings. I moved my attack key "t" down to the v position and placed "v" to the left as it is used far less than attack. I also placed "b" in the upper right as it is also used far less. You may also not that I removed the ALT key as having control group numbers is a far more efficient use of the limited keys you have. I simply set health bars to always on to alleviate most of the issues with not having an alt key. As you can see, the disadvantages of gamepads can actually make playing the game more difficult as I only have room for 4 control groups on my actual gamepad and they are all activated with the thumb making if difficult to quickly bounce between those control groups and takes some practice to have your thumb hit the correct one. Also, of note is that I assign the joystick to the keyboard arrows for scrolling, but i never use it to scroll around during games. I only ever use the joystick when I'm observing games or replays. I also experimented around with using the joystick for more control groups (i.e. up being 1 down being 2, ect...) but found that to be a horrible way of doing control groups. In order to get over some of this issues with limited keys I find it almost necessary to have a mouse that also has a decent amount of assignable extra buttons. For this purpose I used to use the Razer Naga for control groups but again that also has it's disadvantages. I now use the Logitech g700 which has 4 side buttons and three top buttons: http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2010/09/logitech-g700-review/Logitechg700-2.jpg I assign the three top buttons to control groups 1,2, and 3 and assign the forward two thumb buttons to 5 and 6 and the back two buttons to f5 and f6. This gives me 9 out of 10 control groups to use, as well as giving me two f keys to assign. I also have a mouse wheel with a scroll left and right button which I set to backspace so I can quickly cycle between my bases. As you can see, even with a mouse with a lot of buttons to make up for lack of keys on the g13, I still have to sacrifice a control group and two f keys, not to mention my alt key. This is without a doubt a disadvantage over the keyboard. Furthermore it takes A LOT of getting used to to play this way, far more than getting used to playing with a keyboard. Not to mention you have to invest a lot of money getting the gamepad and a good mouse with lots of buttons just to compensate for the lack of keys. I hope I make my point that using a gamepad does not give someone an unfair advantage over someone using a keyboard. If fact you give yourself a slight disadvantage in favor of a more ergonomic hand layout for extended playing sessions. It has taken me a year to find the optimal layout and have had to switch around keys many times (each time having to relearn all the keys) to find the optimal layout for me, and trust me it was no easy task to do. P.S. Sorry for bumping an old thread, but I do hope my reply falls under the rule of: "If your going to bump an old thread at least make it a useful contribution to the discussion" | ||
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