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On May 23 2010 06:11 MadZ wrote:
it really annoys me to see all this whinning about sc2 BETA. because it is BETA ffs blizzard can change everything about the game at any time. of course i would like to see some changes and thats why i leave CONSTUCTIVE feedback on blizzards forums instead of just go to tl.net and whine because whinning and saying that dustin browder is an idiot isnt gonna get you anywhere!! wait for the game to come out and see what it is like there. if it is s*** then go play broodwar that is still an awesome game and if sc2 turns out to be awesome you can play that..
Nothing I said in my original post pertains to the Beta at all. Yes SC2 is in beta. Does that have anything to do with the Battle.net 2.0 development from 2 years ago until now. - No.
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Don't get frustrated, that your using th beta right now and chat rooms are not yet available. Blizzard is testing one thing at a time just like to improve balancing they only let us 1v1/2v2 for the first couple months instead of allowing custom game publishing. This isn't because its not in the final product. Stop looking at battle.net in its current state. Look at the features and tell them what you don't like. (ie you don't like facebook) But, don't make your argument "Why aren't there chat rooms, while there's this stupid facebook thing available" the answer is simple, this is a beta blizzard doesn't need you beta testing a chat room.
please excuse spelling and grammar.
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On May 23 2010 06:16 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 06:08 ymirheim wrote:
I get the feeling that most people around here have never been part of a beta before. That is not a criticism or my attempt at being smug but I am an amateur game designer myself, but I have been involved in several projects from start to finish, I know how the process looks and I have been in numerous beta tests. You are wasting your time and your concern over these issues. It is like how people wrote page after page in several threads about how blizzard had fucked up the friends system just to have blizzard come in and state the obvious the next day, pointing out that they had not actually changed the buddy system just temporarily disabled certain features.
The beta is going down in just over a week, it is going to be down for several weeks. This is not to make changes to the game. Altering the game they can do while having the beta running and then patching it in which is what they have done so far. The only reason to shut the beta down is because they are going to be working on the infrastructure behind it, battlenet and the specific battlenet related components of the game. Considering the fact that in just over a week, they are going to be doing full time work on the battlenet features for probably atleast a month. Does that not atleast suggest that these concerns are better left until the beta goes live again, and you can see what they actually did in that time?
I have never been worried because I know that the features needed for a good social basis are going to be there. If you look at the design process and the discussions at blizzcon etc and many of the different choices that have been made in the development it is OBVIOUS that the social side of the game is very high on their agenda. They are not going to fuck it up or leave it out. Don't look at what is in a rugged beta at the moment look at what the designers have been talking about and what they have been doing through the entire development process. It is all there in the details. A company that does not prioritize social networking and easy access to friends while gaming would not had put a button leading directly to the friends list while in a game and would not had created features such as the ability to form a party before starting a game. Just, relax. What you are essentially saying tho, is that they intentionally put a gimped social system into the game, wasting a ton of work to create something that is just less functional than what we once had. For instance, if I want to message someone in game, I have to use my MOUSE. In SC1, in WC3, I just wrote /w NAME. Now I have to click up a friends list and find the guys name before I can message him - does that really make sense to you? Is there really any way to write that off with a "well, I'm sure they have non-terrible solutions just waiting to be implemented"?
Although I'm not opposed to this UI for 7 year olds / people who can spend more than 5 minutes on just facebook without becoming bored, it is 100% true that the ability to chat in this manner, this "old, back-technology" manner needs to be available.
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They are acting like they are making some "wonder thing" (aka battlenet 2) when it just lacks every basic thing. Why is ICCUP capable of having all those needed futures while blizzard just fails to add them?
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On May 23 2010 06:14 Renaissance wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 06:11 MadZ wrote:
it really annoys me to see all this whinning about sc2 BETA. because it is BETA ffs blizzard can change everything about the game at any time. of course i would like to see some changes and thats why i leave CONSTUCTIVE feedback on blizzards forums instead of just go to tl.net and whine because whinning and saying that dustin browder is an idiot isnt gonna get you anywhere!! wait for the game to come out and see what it is like there. if it is s*** then go play broodwar that is still an awesome game and if sc2 turns out to be awesome you can play that.. It may be the beta but the release date is in two months. Everyone has the right to complain at this point. There are some things that Blizzard has totally missed, and even with countless threads on their forums they have yet to do it. Blizzard needs to start listening to users more.
No one has the right to complain at this point. Why don't people get it, the client running on your computer, the functionality and features available to you, the functionality of the battlenet infrastructure that is currently running is NOT the prototype running at blizzard headquarters.
This is a beta, blizzard is not using it for our pleasure or benefit they are using it because they need our help in identifying bugs and balance issues. They know what things they need this help with and they are only going to provide you with whatever functionality they actually want to get tested. Don't anyone see how ridiculous all of this is? Do you really think that the obvious stuff missing from the beta right now is missing because they are refusing to listen to fan demands?
This is a beta, this is not the game, this is whatever part of the game that blizzard needs you to test for them at any given time. The singleplayer campaign is not in the game, in fact not a shred of it is. Are people freaking out about blizzard skipping a singleplayer campaign for this game? Ofcourse not because common sense tells you that there is a campaign, it has probably been finished for some time now. It is not in the beta because blizzard does not want or need us to test it.
People make the mistake of thinking that the beta process is some kind of iterative design where the features of the game are slowly added as they get completed until the beta turns into the retail version when everything is done. That is not how a beta works. They don't add stuff to it when it gets completed, they add selected functionality.
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I kind of agree with ymirheim. The game is in beta and Blizzard is obviously allow to toy around with its product. The facebook feature, I don't think I'll ever use it, but who knows if it becomes wildly popular with other players. And the whole friends list and identifiers are driving me a bit crazy, but again they are testing it out and we should give them our feedback, just as is being done.
The OP does make a good point on keeping things simple. Blizzard may be over complicating Bnet2.0 with all their new features when war3 bnet was pretty damn decent already and a bit of an upgrade could have done fine in sc2. But again, its Blizzard and they're obviously entitled to innovate how they seem fit.
Concluding, as players/testers/customers let's just keep providing Blizz with feedback and hopefully most of our concerns will be resolved in the final product.
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I'm actually at a lan right now, we had a ton of delays because there is some kind of ip limit on Bnet so everyone (over 100 people) had to proxy to play. Then battlenet went down in the round of 16. Everyone had to replay games. It's pretty retarded. No chat rooms, No lan, everyone is having lag issues ON LAN! Giving away your email or facebook info is retarded. Here's a picture from the Fl lan. We're getting the games done now but it's been pretty rediculous!
![[image loading]](http://i49.tinypic.com/4q6gch.jpg)
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On May 23 2010 05:45 FrozenArbiter wrote:This is something that people have hoping for so long, but I think it's becoming increasingly clear that they just fucked up. Badly. Really, really, really badly.
I've seen worse.
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On May 23 2010 06:16 FrozenArbiter wrote:
What you are essentially saying tho, is that they intentionally put a gimped social system into the game, wasting a ton of work to create something that is just less functional than what we once had.
For instance, if I want to message someone in game, I have to use my MOUSE. In SC1, in WC3, I just wrote /w NAME.
Now I have to click up a friends list and find the guys name before I can message him - does that really make sense to you? Is there really any way to write that off with a "well, I'm sure they have non-terrible solutions just waiting to be implemented"?
Well yes and no. First of all the issue is that a development process is so complicated that I can only really speculate in how stuff looks at the production level over there. I wouldn't say they have non terrible solutions just waiting to be implemented for all we know they may already be implemented just not on our client.
I guess the friends list issue that arose with patch 13 is a good reverse engineering example. The current buddy list system is precisely the same as it was in patch 12. In this patch they disabled certain functionality on the client side because they wanted to direct testing. On our side it looks as if the buddy system is really stupid and really obnoxious but in reality they have actually not changed it at all on their currently up to date prototype.
I can't and won't pretend though to speculate on why certain things are not in or how they would work but I feel comfortable with the fact that it will be implemented. That said there will obviously be stuff that people want that might actually not be in the game or vice versa but it is not going to be like it is now is all I am saying. Also, things like the chat system are integrated into battlenet 2.0 which pretty much has had to be static since the beta launched. The short maintenance periods are not enough to add entire elements or components to battlenet 2.0 so for all we know a chat system could have been completed for the last two months, but they cannot actually implement stuff like that without taking down battlenet for an extended period of time. Which is precisely what they are doing very soon.
Also I want to add to those concerned that I am really not trying to bash anyone for whining, nor am I saying that I know what blizzard got finished and not. I can obviously not know that, all I am saying is that there may be a lot of unnecessary concern based on misconceptions of how the development process looks, and that is understandable. I am just trying to help by telling people that you should not worry too much about it, atleast not until the second phase of beta starts.
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On May 23 2010 06:20 ymirheim wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 06:14 Renaissance wrote:On May 23 2010 06:11 MadZ wrote:
it really annoys me to see all this whinning about sc2 BETA. because it is BETA ffs blizzard can change everything about the game at any time. of course i would like to see some changes and thats why i leave CONSTUCTIVE feedback on blizzards forums instead of just go to tl.net and whine because whinning and saying that dustin browder is an idiot isnt gonna get you anywhere!! wait for the game to come out and see what it is like there. if it is s*** then go play broodwar that is still an awesome game and if sc2 turns out to be awesome you can play that.. It may be the beta but the release date is in two months. Everyone has the right to complain at this point. There are some things that Blizzard has totally missed, and even with countless threads on their forums they have yet to do it. Blizzard needs to start listening to users more. No one has the right to complain at this point. Why don't people get it, the client running on your computer, the functionality and features available to you, the functionality of the battlenet infrastructure that is currently running is NOT the prototype running at blizzard headquarters. This is a beta, blizzard is not using it for our pleasure or benefit they are using it because they need our help in identifying bugs and balance issues. They know what things they need this help with and they are only going to provide you with whatever functionality they actually want to get tested. Don't anyone see how ridiculous all of this is? Do you really think that the obvious stuff missing from the beta right now is missing because they are refusing to listen to fan demands? This is a beta, this is not the game, this is whatever part of the game that blizzard needs you to test for them at any given time. The singleplayer campaign is not in the game, in fact not a shred of it is. Are people freaking out about blizzard skipping a singleplayer campaign for this game? Ofcourse not because common sense tells you that there is a campaign, it has probably been finished for some time now. It is not in the beta because blizzard does not want or need us to test it. People make the mistake of thinking that the beta process is some kind of iterative design where the features of the game are slowly added as they get completed until the beta turns into the retail version when everything is done. That is not how a beta works. They don't add stuff to it when it gets completed, they add selected functionality.
actually some good points.
blizz will most definitely have chat lobbies the way they have in every other battle net game, they want people playing the game though, not sitting idle or chatting but playing and finding problems with the experience itself.
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It's too bad Blizzard didn't listen to what the fans actually would have wanted for a Battle.net 2.0, and instead chose to 'surprise' us. Well it certainly is a surprise, it's surprising how awful Battle.net 2.0 is compared to Battle.net from 1998. I would most certainly rather have Brood War Battle.net at this point. Were there really any people clamoring for Facebook implementation? If they want to add that in, that's absolutely fine, but when they have been fucking up almost all other standards aspects and expectations that fans have come to expect, that is unacceptable.
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I liked the Wc3 portraits better anyways :/... Wc3 BNET > BNET 2.0
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Freezing isn't fixed, just got it...
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Can verify freezing is not fixed.
Also unable to join custom games because "no servers are available." Can anyone verify this?
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On May 23 2010 06:37 Salv wrote:
It's too bad Blizzard didn't listen to what the fans actually would have wanted for a Battle.net 2.0, and instead chose to 'surprise' us. Well it certainly is a surprise, it's surprising how awful Battle.net 2.0 is compared to Battle.net from 1998. I would most certainly rather have Brood War Battle.net at this point. Were there really any people clamoring for Facebook implementation? If they want to add that in, that's absolutely fine, but when they have been fucking up almost all other standards aspects and expectations that fans have come to expect, that is unacceptable.
The facebook thing is a bit what the fuck. I mean who actually wanted that? srs.
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On May 23 2010 06:39 DTown wrote:
Can verify freezing is not fixed.
Also unable to join custom games because "no servers are available." Can anyone verify this?
Ya, I am getting this error now.
edit: 1v1 wont work either. It tells me I can't enter the queue because I am already in it.
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On May 23 2010 06:40 Necrosjef wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2010 06:37 Salv wrote:
It's too bad Blizzard didn't listen to what the fans actually would have wanted for a Battle.net 2.0, and instead chose to 'surprise' us. Well it certainly is a surprise, it's surprising how awful Battle.net 2.0 is compared to Battle.net from 1998. I would most certainly rather have Brood War Battle.net at this point. Were there really any people clamoring for Facebook implementation? If they want to add that in, that's absolutely fine, but when they have been fucking up almost all other standards aspects and expectations that fans have come to expect, that is unacceptable. The facebook thing is a bit what the fuck. I mean who actually wanted that? srs.
and what happens when no one uses facebook anymore?
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There are many things Activision/Blizzard add just to make easy money:
- Facebook integration is a new way of advertisement. All it does is to show people that their friends play this "Starcraft II" game. I have no idea why anyone would care to share their latest SC2-Achievements with their facebook friends. The only reason for this feature is for Activision/Blizzard and Facebook to get more customers and thereforce more money.
- Achievements are a way to make people keep playing the game without actually adding any cool content, or improving gameplay. There's a reason every new game has achievements.
- A very long closed beta phase, which really is open. In my eyes this is very successful advertisement. Beta-testing could be done by a MUCH smaller amount of testers. But this isn't relevant to bnet.
- Then there's the thing with the ladders. But this is already being heavily discussed in other threads.
Gameplay is okay (I guess, not talking balance issues), but everything else has $$$ written all over it.
The only cool thing about bnet2 is cross-game communication (not implemented yet). But now that I think of it, bnet1.0 had that, too. In conclusion, they took bnet1, removed tons of features and added functions to display the full names of friends and facebook. If they don't implement at least the mandatory features, such as a normal chat room, bnet2 is a giant leap backwards from the thirteen year old bnet1.
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EPT
