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On May 21 2010 18:44 Jenia6109 wrote:
This patch is quite good but: take out Stimpack from Marauders finally
This is probly the best solution ive heard. Marauders with stim pack are sickening especially in that they can spam stim pack with no consequence with their massive amount of HP.
Z gets the completely inferior roach. With less range less everything, crappier price same supply.... and has expensive and lengthy upgrades. While marauders get basically free upgrades And hard counters Roach SWEET!
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aha protoss getting nerfed again and terran getting buffed ahaha. I hope the win ration for this matchup will get so stupidly unbalanced that they will have to buff protoss again. Too bad low level players keep dying by protoss cheese and messing the stats up! Seems like protoss is going to be the underdog race again.
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On May 21 2010 12:12 Z3kk wrote:Holy crap, this patch is awesome! The frenzy spell is very interesting. However, (  ) it really irks me that Protoss got nothing but nerfs, while the Zerg's Overseer is about to get really, really annoying... Contaminate nexus, infested terrans to kill probes? They'll do the damage and just die before an army gets there anyway....not sure if that's a workable strat.. And also some Terran upgrade costs were decreased. The ability for massive units to smash FF's w/o cost is also gonna hurt really badly. Sure Protoss is slightly "imba" right now, but I just feel that at some point, toss players won't be able to improvise (slight exaggeration there but you get my point) anymore and the other races will just have a death grip on Protoss. Someone tell me if I'm being completely out of line, because I have a nagging suspicion that I'm griefing very hard. =(
well if you look back, couple of patches were all like that for Zerg. Nothing but nerfs and I don't take Ultralisk as a serious buff (last patch) :D
On the other note, I really like zerg changes although I would like more flexibility in the early to mid game...but that's maybe just me...
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On May 21 2010 18:59 Duelist wrote:
Seems like protoss is going to be the underdog race again.
Not if Zerg beats you to it!
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On May 21 2010 12:36 Paperscraps wrote:
This patch is seriously amazing. So many new strategies. Seriously awesomeness. Medivac thor micro to own forcefields, utlra cant be kited by marauders now, frenzied roaches anyone?, overseer seems kinda imba now but we will have to wait and see, buff to bio for terran seems a bit much but we will have to see how it turns out, void ray nerf sweet!, exciting patch for sure.
Uhm, maybe try to get a Beta Key before May,31 so you can start talking about the Game?
Ultras never were kited by Marauders actually, start playing please, stop talking about things you dont have a clue of.
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On May 21 2010 18:59 Duelist wrote:
aha protoss getting nerfed again and terran getting buffed ahaha. I hope the win ration for this matchup will get so stupidly unbalanced that they will have to buff protoss again. Too bad low level players keep dying by protoss cheese and messing the stats up! Seems like protoss is going to be the underdog race again.
toss is not an underdog race
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Thank god they got rid of that fucking ID system.. That was such a pain.
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They shouldnt call it frenzy at least. It should be named something more sciency, like Adrenaline Spurt or something. My other fear is that it is not as intuitive when you watch the game what the spell does and when it is being used. "Och cool a blinking red ultralisk, that must be good in some way". On the other hand, neither is stim.
Anyway, its exciting to see these changes play out.
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Oh great.
The one thing that I didnt know how to stop in PvT, Terran builds with mass marines, is buffed now. Thank you blizzard.......ugh.
Like the Zerg changes a lot though.
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On May 21 2010 18:36 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 18:31 grog wrote:TL.net admins please make blizzard read these patch discussion threads May be they will have some sense while balancing the game. This would be the worst idea possible. 99% of the reactions are biased inaccurate whiny bullshit.
that is half wrong half right.
remember while ppl were discussing patch 12's roach supply change (before it went live). ppl got angry at ppl who protested with "biased inaccurate whiny bullshit"s , because the patch wasn't live and it hadn't got tested. so it was unnecessary to rage like this.
but that ppl turned out to be right, we can see in top tournaments from top level players that how zerg strategy and unit composition has changed. and that change / adaptation is still making zerg's job harder than before. I am %100 sure that DiMAGA made "biased inaccurate whiny bullshit" comments (may be not in public) before patch 12 went live because of the changes have been made.
now take patch 13, take ultralisk; a unit with the problem of obvious bad pathing problem (stucking etc etc.) had many changes except solving this bad pathing problem and this is served like "a brand new ultra in gold plate for every z player, a revamped unit).
essence of zerg is swarm. your units die easily before the enemy but you have a lot of units to have them killed in the battle. pointing this out, zerg's combats are crowded with lots of units!
so important front units like ultralisks should be able to get it's position normally not like asking money from every hydralisk and roach when he got refused he wants to ask money from enemy marauders but it is already too late for him.
So a working mind can easily figure out that the X problem of Y unit is still not solved. So ppl have the right to no rage but at least whine about it.
All I am saying is, for certain things ( I emphasize on that) you don't need to test it, you don't need to play it, you don't need to be rocket scientist, because it's there and obvious.
I know many ppl will disagree with my point. but at least try to understand it even it doesnt suit you.
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On May 21 2010 18:57 sacrificetheory wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 18:44 Jenia6109 wrote:
This patch is quite good but: take out Stimpack from Marauders finally This is probly the best solution ive heard. Marauders with stim pack are sickening especially in that they can spam stim pack with no consequence with their massive amount of HP. Z gets the completely inferior roach. With less range less everything, crappier price same supply.... and has expensive and lengthy upgrades. While marauders get basically free upgrades And hard counters Roach SWEET!
Agree with take out Stimpack from Marauders, they are just very powerful with stimpack. So the 2 upgrade cost changes with Patch 13 will be more reasonable that to counter the void ray.
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Meh...I don't like this Frenzy skill. Not saying it's bad, I just don't think it fits into SC. If it was a self-buff for certain units (e.g. ultras) it'd be understandable, well, kinda. This spell (literally) belongs into different kind of games, like w3, wow etc..
Anyway, I can't wait to try out this patch. VR nerf is huge, but necessary (I really don't want to see VR in every game with protoss).
They buffed ultras a lot, but imo mainly through frenzy and FF nerf. Ultras will now die very quickly and I'm not sure if they are meant to be against armored units. It's good against marauders, but they will suck against them anyway due to concussive shell. Now zealots will give ultras a run for their money, imo.
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nice patch, but id have preferred to see void ray go back to 3 charge levels instead of reduced range, but i guess that was the only way to make it less gay in early game
with stim being cheaper i think rauders definitely need a nerf though, maybe reduce their hp or at least make concussive shell research move expensive
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Wow, can't help but do my 1st post on this topic. This amount of whining and complaining is just proper amazing... Yeah, people do need to realise this is a beta and these are tests. Plus, IMO, these changes are mostly really great. Now my opinion:
Infested marines to overseers, great to drop 2-4 marines into mineral lines a bit as lurker drop back then. Also means more micro for the other player as they could easily move the probes the time for the marines to disappear (don't know the exact time though) and/or one def in each lines of mineral (which I do almost 90% of the time regardless). Besides, contaminate can really give an edge for good Z who would use it at the right time (e.g. after taking out main armies while counter attacking and stuff). Also rather easy to counter with just a little bit of defense. This just made overseers great. And they're not really OP (you'd never get mass overseers spamming infested marines and or contaminate, way too expensive).
Ultralisks can now be very useful to clean up expos along with cracklings in end game (destroy FF, more dmg against buildings) and IMO can be a great combo with infestors taking controls of tanks and/or other big units, doing frenzy, throwing fungal at marauders and so on). And yeah, 450HP is still good, AND by the time ultras are out upgrades should be at least smth like 2 in armor (and maybe 2 in attack, depending on the Z player going hydras or roaches or lings).
For frenzy, IMO it can also be used to snipe colossi with corruptors (might contribute making them a bit more played), take down tanks quickly with just a couple of BLs and boot ultra once they're in contact.
As for Terran "buff", come on... It's like giving a free marauder and/or having the upgrade seconds before what it used to... It's only 50/50 less... We'll see how it plays out but I doubt this will make so big a change.
VR nerf, well, it just allows more kiting, thus more micro. I really don't get how people can decently say this will lower the so-called skill ceiling...
And, lastly, for the league changes... Wow, how can people not realise that they changed the ratios. If diamond league is now, say, only 0.5% of all players, that could be the first step of the creation of a professional league, and this is brilliant.
All in all, an excellent patch IMO (even though we'll have to see how it pans out), but I think it makes the game that much more interesting, esp for adding new possibilities to Z players (I'm random...)
I seriously think people should get more of a global view and stop acting like children...
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So dark swarm made units impervious to certain attacks, but somehow that is very sc-ish?
Plague made units lose all their hp down to 1 remaingin, and that is very sc-ish?
But frenzy makes a unit deal more dmg is not sc-ish? These spells all basically do the same thing only in a different ways, if something the fucking dark swarm and plague are AOE when frenzy is only on select units, not AOE, which is 8 at most(per infestor) but since you rarely have maxed out infestors its realistically more like 3-5 units. Yet you think that frenzy is wc3-ish and dark swarm and plague is sc-ish.
Here's a hint: Logicl fail
Edit: if you were to cast this on enemy units instead, would that be considered sc-ish?
Hint #2: corruptors already have that(although if you fine with it or not is a different discussion, but from what I've read in threads most people dont seem to mind it).
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Cheaper stim will make a difference in early games, and not that early anyway. It gives terran ability to make a faster push with marauders, thus allowing terran to be aggressive against protoss early game, which shouldn't be that bad. I might be biased, though.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51084 Posts
I doubt this patch will last long,terran imbaness is totally to the max.
patch 14 will probably come within 48 hours of patch 13's release.
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Are people seriously thinking that Frenzy is going to be overpowered? You could make more units instead of making Infestors that just purely frenzy your army and have more dps while being able to survive more cause you have more units and each unit dying isn't as brutal.
I'd much rather FG their army.
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I think everyone here is missing the point...
3v3 and 4v4 opened up.
This means 3v3 and 4v4 maps
....
Profit!
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I wonder what Frenzy would be like on a Broodlord.
I mean why use Frenzy on a unit like the Ultra that no one ever wanted to use when you can use it on a Broodlord that everyone already uses.
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EPT
