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I don't understand how/why Terran seems to constantly be getting buffed, Protoss constantly nerfed, and now Zerg gets nerfed.
I definitely think the roach nerf is extreme. I can understand making them a 2 food unit, but if you're gonna cut their efficiency essentially by half (because you can only mass 1/2 as many as you used to) you gotta change them to make them more viable as a 2 food unit, because as it stands I feel like they won't be made. I don't know if this was an attempt to see more zergling and baneling usage, but I definitely think this nerf will force/encourage zergs to go to T2 much faster than they have already been doing so. We'll see how it ends up panning out.
I don't really understand the forge nerf. I don't think it was to discourage forge fe, because if thats the case something needs to be done about Zerg and Terran FE options. I'm assuming there must've been a ton of cannon rushes happening or something because this is dumb.
Seems like Thors just became much more viable and even easier to maneuver in combat.
We'll see how this patch pans out..
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Still waiting for that void ray nerf.
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This is the first change to the thor that makes me actually consider building them a bit more lolol.
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I'll shut the fuck up if the Lurker returns. I was sick of Terran and Protoss balls before the fucking patch. Lurkers please. Banelings are boring and stupid.
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On May 14 2010 06:39 pabloINC wrote:
i'm a protoss player but i think i'm going to have to change races after this forge nerf. protoss is just wayy too weak now.
Yeah i agree. And now forge is 400/400 its like a joke........
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Zerg t1 is basically garbage... more pigeonholing into fast t2.
As someone put it, why get 2 supply roaches when you can get hydras?
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On May 14 2010 02:57 NiiPPLES wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 02:55 Two_DoWn wrote:
Ouch for zerg. How noticeable is the thor size reduction? 1.375 to 0.8125. 59% of their original size. So probably VERY noticeable.
they probably just replaced it with the goliath and will hope no one notices :p
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On May 14 2010 06:43 HeyheyLBJ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 06:41 Utred wrote:
Weird way to fix the roach. It'll make zvz more versatile but kinda weaken z a lot in the other MUs I fear. More versatile? Now FE's are out the window, and it'll be banelings vs banelings for the cake. What can be more boring than that?
Mutas vs Mutas in BW =p
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On May 14 2010 06:52 Lollersauce wrote:
Zerg t1 is basically garbage... more pigeonholing into fast t2.
As someone put it, why get 2 supply roaches when you can get hydras?
Zerg T1 is garbage they have zerglings which are really only good at one thing, which is dieing quickly.
Now at T1.5 they have a 2 food unit that is not worth the 2 food or the larva it costs to make it.
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On May 14 2010 06:50 Ampere wrote:
Still waiting for that void ray nerf.
Not gonna happen - a marauder/immortal nerf might be in the next patch with this nerf to the roach though. Which is actually a good thing and I'll gladly suffer the handicap when I random zerg for the duration of one beta-patch...
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Also something had to be done to Zerg. Late-game macro games Zerg is basically unbeatable
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Congratulate me, I am manly Terran now, not some pussy Protoss or alien Zerg.
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On May 14 2010 06 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 14 2010 06 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:54 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 06:43 HeyheyLBJ wrote:On May 14 2010 06:41 Utred wrote:
Weird way to fix the roach. It'll make zvz more versatile but kinda weaken z a lot in the other MUs I fear. More versatile? Now FE's are out the window, and it'll be banelings vs banelings for the cake. What can be more boring than that? Mutas vs Mutas in BW =p
What? Have you ever played ZvZ or even watched a pro zvz?
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Lets look at the fundamental characteristics of each race in Brood War.
Zerg -
Mobility/speed
Fragility (low tech )
Numerically superior (numerical power)
Low Cost
Terran -
Teamwork between unit types
Specialization of roles
superior Endurance (defensive power)
Medium Cost
Protoss
Strong individual units with higher damage output
Technologically superior (offensive power )
High Cost units
Now lets use these as general guidelines to examine the Roach when its first made.
Its lower cost (70/30), higher hit points (145), lower tech ( range 3 attack) at tier 1.5., average movement speed, higher damage (16), defensively stronger (1 armor), and lastly supply cost of one.
Right now it is super cost effective and strong because it has Zerg cost with Protoss offensive power and Terran defensive power (high hitpoints make it a great defender except vs its direct counters marauder and immortals). So basically the roach became the staple for zerg just like the superlative t-38 tank for the Red armies in ww2. Unless your fighting a battle of maneuver, for the zerg , the roach was the goto unit.
Now lets look at this change for this patch. Its food cost is increased from 1 to 2. None of the other attributes were changed. You still get the unit but the net effect is you will require more larvae and a hidden cost increase in the form of more overlords. The short term effect is the ability to concentrate roaches quickly is reduced. This means less early game aggression from Z. Mid Term it will make supply more important. It will force Z users to over produce overlords or not rely as heavily on the roach. The net effect will be less roaches in mid game. This in turn will force Z again to delay the time window for a major ground attacks (vs T and P) by reducing its ability to concentrate enough numbers of "assault units" for a direct attack . This will likely mean the staple zerg unit will become the hydralisk. Long term the effects appear more drastic, the total ratio of roaches in the zerg swarm in roaches will be effectively cut in half in the late game.
//Currently in zvt or zvp , from my experience lings evaporate to quickly even with flanks when attacking a defended position. I'm currently only a Z 1500pts 34w-22l plat player so I already acknowledge there could be a way to use blings and lings better.
Lastly, my wishlist : (1) zerglings that can scale cliffs as an upgrade would give some mobility back to zerg early game. (2) more "space" on the screen to see and control units. (3) replays that allow multiple users to view at same time (4) public channels to allow people to talk/socailize/and learn from each other collectively.
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On May 14 2010 06:50 Ampere wrote:
Still waiting for that void ray nerf.
Same hir.... come on blizzard!!!
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On May 14 2010 03:02 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 03:00 Jdanzi wrote:
wow, some zergs will have to do more than make 200 roaches to win games, might even have to unit mix. This encourages zergs to use their tech switching versatility to win games as opposed to overwhelming with sheer numbers of roaches. Great, the race supposed to be all about overwhelming numbers will now have smaller armies than Terran.
True that. I think I'm done playing sc2 til patch 13. Fuck that shit Zerg is losing all it was supposed to be. No army size, no strong units, no late game choices, what's the point of playing anymore?
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On May 14 2010 06:55 PanzerDragoon wrote:
Also something had to be done to Zerg. Late-game macro games Zerg is basically unbeatable
If you let them get 5 bases yes.
Btw, someone told me there was no stats reset and stuff? Is that true?
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On May 14 2010 06:55 PanzerDragoon wrote:
Also something had to be done to Zerg. Late-game macro games Zerg is basically unbeatable
Even if that were true, which it isn't, this wasn't the change Zerg needed. As has been said, it's a step in the wrong direction.
Which is funny considering Dustin Browder and Chris Sigaty and all those guys kept saying "we really wanted to diversify the races as much as possible". Not happenin' with the roach period. And certainly not with a 2 supply roach.
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On May 14 2010 06:57 Persev wrote:
This will likely mean the staple zerg unit will become the hydralisk
Yup. The problem being that it's t2....
I'm guessing we'll just mass spine crawlers and fast lair every damn game?
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Netherlands4540 Posts
It's going to be incredibly hard to mold this mess they've made into something playable come july 27...not to mention all the other non-gameplay issues....AHHHHHH!
dont think the roach nerf is so bad. But zerg has no end game options :=<
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EPT
