• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:14
CEST 18:14
KST 01:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy0GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding0Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2)
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. ASL21 General Discussion Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
🌍 Weekly Foreign Showmatches [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Loot Boxes—Emotions, And Why…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1264 users

Patch 12 - Changes and Discussion - Page 46

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 44 45 46 47 48 79 Next
rackdude
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States882 Posts
May 13 2010 22:02 GMT
#901
Blizzard's explanations:

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=24702406287&sid=5000
Sweet.
Karas
Profile Joined March 2010
United States230 Posts
May 13 2010 22:05 GMT
#902
The roach supply increase seemed like a fine idea when the roach was a much stronger unit, but with its recent nerfs I no longer see it as an overwhelming unit that requires such a change. In fact, in most matchups fast tech to hydra is becoming more and more popular.

To me of the unholy trinity Marauders are the only one that are still in the OP stage. The immortal build time nerf seems to have reduced the impact of that first immortal push that was so hard to stop. The roaches various nerfs and the stalker increase has provided each of the races a viable counter.

Marauders remain as strong as they ever were. While terrans have to pay 50/50 extra for the slowing privilege, its such a fast research that the most common builds always have marauders with slow. If they had gotten a nerf, I could understand a roach nerf but in a vacuum not so sure.

One thing I would like to see is a buff to zerg for adrenal glands, especially now that roaches aren't as massable. Zerglings just aren't cutting the mustard late game, so a boost to that upgrade could bring back some of the damage of old.
Utred
Profile Joined February 2010
Belgium16 Posts
May 13 2010 22:05 GMT
#903
Roaches are just too mighty to be a 1 supply unit. In 200 supply battles Roaches can be very difficult to deal with even with the correct counters in play by protoss or terran players.

200 supply roaches kill 200 supply marauders?
rackdude
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States882 Posts
May 13 2010 22:06 GMT
#904
On May 14 2010 07:05 Utred wrote:
Show nested quote +
Roaches are just too mighty to be a 1 supply unit. In 200 supply battles Roaches can be very difficult to deal with even with the correct counters in play by protoss or terran players.

200 supply roaches kill 200 supply marauders?


200 supply roaches used to be 2x the amount of marauders.
Sweet.
s031720
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden383 Posts
May 13 2010 22:07 GMT
#905
It would be interesting to let some korean zergs play at the european servers, that way we could get a better understanding of why the Z is so strong there and the Z is so weak here.

Is it because the Korean terran and toss players are so weak, or is it because european zerg-players are so weak?

Because when they base their "balancing" on Korea, it messed up for both the US and EU servers, so this should be investigated further I think.

Personally, I really cant see how Z can stand up to the "balls of deaths" of P and T now, I think I will change to terran for this patch. A good opportunity to learn something new; and ill watch to see how the top Z players adapt. It will be interesting weeks.
Just another noob
TheHof
Profile Joined March 2010
United States92 Posts
May 13 2010 22:07 GMT
#906
Man, going to be loving the new thor radius. The only time I felt it was a serious issue was on ramps, you couldn't fit more than one going up the ramp. Now I'm hoping I'll be able to get them side by side. Will really help in using the thor's HP to just push in through, taking a lot of hits.
"It's so nerve wracking, I'm just crossing my fingers and sayin' c'mooon esports"-Day[9]
kickinhead
Profile Joined December 2008
Switzerland2069 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 22:08:24
May 13 2010 22:07 GMT
#907
On May 14 2010 07:05 Utred wrote:
Show nested quote +
Roaches are just too mighty to be a 1 supply unit. In 200 supply battles Roaches can be very difficult to deal with even with the correct counters in play by protoss or terran players.

200 supply roaches kill 200 supply marauders?


it's not all about hardcounter-Units killing the Units they're supposed to counter u know?
https://soundcloud.com/thesamplethief
Utred
Profile Joined February 2010
Belgium16 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 22:08:02
May 13 2010 22:07 GMT
#908
On May 14 2010 07:06 rackdude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 07:05 Utred wrote:
Roaches are just too mighty to be a 1 supply unit. In 200 supply battles Roaches can be very difficult to deal with even with the correct counters in play by protoss or terran players.

200 supply roaches kill 200 supply marauders?


200 supply roaches used to be 2x the amount of marauders.

But do they kill them?
I'm not being sarcastic or such, I really don't know.
kk above post answered. Never tried it before.
Fizbin
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada202 Posts
May 13 2010 22:07 GMT
#909
On May 14 2010 02:51 never_toss wrote:
hmm i want to test out pvz :o feels like z will make more lings and banelings now

also looking forward to see thors :D

the mineral too gas ratio is the reason zerg use so many roach's but now with banlings and lings the ratio will be hella lings and a few banelings. still... tanking damage with lings mid game is pretty aweful so im thinking this is a pretty big nerf. more OL's a guess
just the tip
goswser
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3548 Posts
May 13 2010 22:09 GMT
#910
The roach nerf should allow for a more exciting early game tvz and pvz, as you can't be punished as easily by roaches now, although they are still viable against mass zealot etc.

Blizzard Poster:
As we mentioned in the original post, all changes we have planned are not in yet and we have been trying to be careful about layering them in and watching the results closely. This patch is no different and we have more coming down the pipe before much longer. StarCraft II is like an onion with many layers, but instead of peeling the layers, we're adding them in like paper mâché only without the messy flour paste and with a slightly less predictable outcome.
say you were born into a jungle indian tribe where food was scarce...would you run around from teepee to teepee stealing meat scraps after a day lazying around doing nothing except warming urself by a fire that you didn't even make yourself? -rekrul
kickinhead
Profile Joined December 2008
Switzerland2069 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 22:09:56
May 13 2010 22:09 GMT
#911
On May 14 2010 07:07 Fizbin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 02:51 never_toss wrote:
hmm i want to test out pvz :o feels like z will make more lings and banelings now

also looking forward to see thors :D

the mineral too gas ratio is the reason zerg use so many roach's but now with banlings and lings the ratio will be hella lings and a few banelings. still... tanking damage with lings mid game is pretty aweful so im thinking this is a pretty big nerf. more OL's a guess


Ever thought about the Mins2gas-ratio with meching Terran? ^^'

I tell you - zergs are way better off!

They can always add hatches, queens and spit out lings like crazy! ^^'
https://soundcloud.com/thesamplethief
Rodiel
Profile Joined August 2006
France573 Posts
May 13 2010 22:09 GMT
#912
just push roach to tier 2, i think ling/baneling/crawler is enough to tier1 and exp
ClanOverdosed
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
691 Posts
May 13 2010 22:10 GMT
#913
ewww smaller thors? they were awesome!
Overdosed--www.overdosed.net
kickinhead
Profile Joined December 2008
Switzerland2069 Posts
May 13 2010 22:10 GMT
#914
On May 14 2010 07:09 Rodiel wrote:
just push roach to tier 2, i think ling/baneling/crawler is enough to tier1 and exp


do that, give them burrow by default and move hydras (but cheaper and weaker) back to T1 and I'm fairly satisfied! ^^'
https://soundcloud.com/thesamplethief
rackdude
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States882 Posts
May 13 2010 22:11 GMT
#915
On May 14 2010 07:09 Newguy wrote:
The roach nerf should allow for a more exciting early game tvz and pvz, as you can't be punished as easily by roaches now, although they are still viable against mass zealot etc.

Blizzard Poster:
Show nested quote +
As we mentioned in the original post, all changes we have planned are not in yet and we have been trying to be careful about layering them in and watching the results closely. This patch is no different and we have more coming down the pipe before much longer. StarCraft II is like an onion with many layers, but instead of peeling the layers, we're adding them in like paper mâché only without the messy flour paste and with a slightly less predictable outcome.


Agreed. I think it lends itself to FE -> Phoenix -> templar .
Sweet.
BattleSheen
Profile Joined April 2010
United States58 Posts
May 13 2010 22:11 GMT
#916
1700 Platinum zerg player here.

In regards to the Roach issue...


I never really liked roaches and only built them for specific purposes. For example:

-vs a 2 gate toss to get my expo up. I'll make like 2-3 to fend off zealots. so i dont have to pour a ton of larvae and minerals into lings.

-vs thor rushing terrans, i'll get roaches to keep me alive during my transition to infestor/hydra

-when holding 4 gate pushes on small maps like steppes of war (where hydras cant come out in time) the core of my army would be speedlings, and i'll make a decent amount of roaches for some dps.

and i'm sure there are more i cant think of at the moment.


I've managed to get 1700's platinum and i hardly ever rely on roaches. I think this change will mostly affect the uncreative zerg players who horde roaches, even vs their counters like mauraders and immortals. I think the game is broken if the answer to mauraders and immortals is more roaches. In the end it will force zergs to be dynamic and creative, and will prevent mindless roach massing.

As of now i welcome this change, and i look forward to blizz fairly working out any kinks this change may cause.

Of course, i'm taking into account the planned changes to the infestor, overseer, and ultra. (which will be insta-boner i'm sure)


The ragers should take a breather, open their minds, and adapt their play. zerg still rox my c0x and will only get better with the future changes.

Nuclear Launch Detected
Lollersauce
Profile Joined April 2010
United States357 Posts
May 13 2010 22:11 GMT
#917
On May 14 2010 07:09 Newguy wrote:
The roach nerf should allow for a more exciting early game tvz and pvz, as you can't be punished as easily by roaches now, although they are still viable against mass zealot etc.

Blizzard Poster:
Show nested quote +
As we mentioned in the original post, all changes we have planned are not in yet and we have been trying to be careful about layering them in and watching the results closely. This patch is no different and we have more coming down the pipe before much longer. StarCraft II is like an onion with many layers, but instead of peeling the layers, we're adding them in like paper mâché only without the messy flour paste and with a slightly less predictable outcome.


Yeah much more exciting ZvT now, what with every unit melting to the mech ball and less roaches to help tank.

Time to baneling bust every ZvT... /snore.
Ganondorf
Profile Joined April 2010
Italy600 Posts
May 13 2010 22:11 GMT
#918
On May 14 2010 07:07 s031720 wrote:
It would be interesting to let some korean zergs play at the european servers, that way we could get a better understanding of why the Z is so strong there and the Z is so weak here.

Is it because the Korean terran and toss players are so weak, or is it because european zerg-players are so weak?

Because when they base their "balancing" on Korea, it messed up for both the US and EU servers, so this should be investigated further I think.

Personally, I really cant see how Z can stand up to the "balls of deaths" of P and T now, I think I will change to terran for this patch. A good opportunity to learn something new; and ill watch to see how the top Z players adapt. It will be interesting weeks.


I think there's a tournament coming up with the best eu, us and kor players rapresenting their continent, just check the tournament forum. I'm looking forward to seeing those matches.
Fizbin
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada202 Posts
May 13 2010 22:12 GMT
#919
On May 14 2010 07:07 s031720 wrote:
It would be interesting to let some korean zergs play at the european servers, that way we could get a better understanding of why the Z is so strong there and the Z is so weak here.

Is it because the Korean terran and toss players are so weak, or is it because european zerg-players are so weak?

Because when they base their "balancing" on Korea, it messed up for both the US and EU servers, so this should be investigated further I think.

Personally, I really cant see how Z can stand up to the "balls of deaths" of P and T now, I think I will change to terran for this patch. A good opportunity to learn something new; and ill watch to see how the top Z players adapt. It will be interesting weeks.



ive been trying to find good replays of zerg players on korean servers. and i found a few.. it seems they get more queens and make better use of spine crawlers. even offencively. one european who did that was TLO vs WHITERA HDSC semi finals game on scrap station. check it out on u tube. also the koreans do more harrassing and flanking from what i have seen.

i play platinum and have been trying to implement some of those strats. pretty intereseting.
just the tip
Paperscraps
Profile Joined March 2010
United States639 Posts
May 13 2010 22:12 GMT
#920
On May 14 2010 07:00 ret wrote:
It's going to be incredibly hard to mold this mess they've made into something playable come july 27...not to mention all the other non-gameplay issues....AHHHHHH!

dont think the roach nerf is so bad. But zerg has no end game options :=<


Yeah, because broodlords aren't good late game.
"Because in the end, the only way we can measure the significance of our own lives is by valuing the lives of others.” - David Gale
Prev 1 44 45 46 47 48 79 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 46m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
LamboSC2 357
Hui .327
TKL 170
ProTech128
Rex 67
SteadfastSC 65
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3885
Shuttle 1388
Bisu 1181
Jaedong 1051
Stork 488
ggaemo 346
Mini 286
actioN 260
Snow 240
Larva 178
[ Show more ]
Rush 150
Aegong 149
PianO 131
hero 130
Leta 125
Soulkey 103
Sharp 89
Barracks 40
Hyun 35
ToSsGirL 26
scan(afreeca) 23
sSak 21
soO 20
Terrorterran 19
NaDa 12
GoRush 10
Sexy 6
Dota 2
Gorgc8197
qojqva1901
syndereN338
420jenkins216
Counter-Strike
fl0m2589
pashabiceps1874
byalli340
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King79
Other Games
FrodaN1040
B2W.Neo1016
hiko691
Beastyqt487
crisheroes308
Mlord287
RotterdaM279
ArmadaUGS125
KnowMe81
Trikslyr51
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Shameless 31
• poizon28 25
• LUISG 17
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 15
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota240
League of Legends
• Nemesis3080
Other Games
• Shiphtur80
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
7h 46m
The PondCast
17h 46m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 7h
WardiTV Team League
1d 18h
Replay Cast
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Team League
3 days
OSC
3 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W2
IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.