EPThttp://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=24702406287&sid=5000
Patch 12 - Changes and Discussion - Page 46
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rackdude
United States882 Posts
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=24702406287&sid=5000 | ||
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Karas
United States230 Posts
To me of the unholy trinity Marauders are the only one that are still in the OP stage. The immortal build time nerf seems to have reduced the impact of that first immortal push that was so hard to stop. The roaches various nerfs and the stalker increase has provided each of the races a viable counter. Marauders remain as strong as they ever were. While terrans have to pay 50/50 extra for the slowing privilege, its such a fast research that the most common builds always have marauders with slow. If they had gotten a nerf, I could understand a roach nerf but in a vacuum not so sure. One thing I would like to see is a buff to zerg for adrenal glands, especially now that roaches aren't as massable. Zerglings just aren't cutting the mustard late game, so a boost to that upgrade could bring back some of the damage of old. | ||
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Utred
Belgium16 Posts
Roaches are just too mighty to be a 1 supply unit. In 200 supply battles Roaches can be very difficult to deal with even with the correct counters in play by protoss or terran players. 200 supply roaches kill 200 supply marauders? | ||
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rackdude
United States882 Posts
200 supply roaches used to be 2x the amount of marauders. | ||
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s031720
Sweden383 Posts
Is it because the Korean terran and toss players are so weak, or is it because european zerg-players are so weak? Because when they base their "balancing" on Korea, it messed up for both the US and EU servers, so this should be investigated further I think. Personally, I really cant see how Z can stand up to the "balls of deaths" of P and T now, I think I will change to terran for this patch. A good opportunity to learn something new; and ill watch to see how the top Z players adapt. It will be interesting weeks. | ||
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TheHof
United States92 Posts
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
it's not all about hardcounter-Units killing the Units they're supposed to counter u know? | ||
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Utred
Belgium16 Posts
On May 14 2010 07:06 rackdude wrote: 200 supply roaches used to be 2x the amount of marauders. But do they kill them? I'm not being sarcastic or such, I really don't know. kk above post answered. Never tried it before. | ||
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Fizbin
Canada202 Posts
On May 14 2010 02:51 never_toss wrote: hmm i want to test out pvz :o feels like z will make more lings and banelings now also looking forward to see thors :D the mineral too gas ratio is the reason zerg use so many roach's but now with banlings and lings the ratio will be hella lings and a few banelings. still... tanking damage with lings mid game is pretty aweful so im thinking this is a pretty big nerf. more OL's a guess | ||
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
Blizzard Poster: As we mentioned in the original post, all changes we have planned are not in yet and we have been trying to be careful about layering them in and watching the results closely. This patch is no different and we have more coming down the pipe before much longer. StarCraft II is like an onion with many layers, but instead of peeling the layers, we're adding them in like paper mâché only without the messy flour paste and with a slightly less predictable outcome. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On May 14 2010 07:07 Fizbin wrote: the mineral too gas ratio is the reason zerg use so many roach's but now with banlings and lings the ratio will be hella lings and a few banelings. still... tanking damage with lings mid game is pretty aweful so im thinking this is a pretty big nerf. more OL's a guess Ever thought about the Mins2gas-ratio with meching Terran? ^^' I tell you - zergs are way better off! They can always add hatches, queens and spit out lings like crazy! ^^' | ||
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Rodiel
France573 Posts
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ClanOverdosed
691 Posts
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On May 14 2010 07:09 Rodiel wrote: just push roach to tier 2, i think ling/baneling/crawler is enough to tier1 and exp do that, give them burrow by default and move hydras (but cheaper and weaker) back to T1 and I'm fairly satisfied! ^^' | ||
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rackdude
United States882 Posts
On May 14 2010 07:09 Newguy wrote: The roach nerf should allow for a more exciting early game tvz and pvz, as you can't be punished as easily by roaches now, although they are still viable against mass zealot etc. Blizzard Poster: Agreed. I think it lends itself to FE -> Phoenix -> templar  . | ||
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BattleSheen
United States58 Posts
In regards to the Roach issue... I never really liked roaches and only built them for specific purposes. For example: -vs a 2 gate toss to get my expo up. I'll make like 2-3 to fend off zealots. so i dont have to pour a ton of larvae and minerals into lings. -vs thor rushing terrans, i'll get roaches to keep me alive during my transition to infestor/hydra -when holding 4 gate pushes on small maps like steppes of war (where hydras cant come out in time) the core of my army would be speedlings, and i'll make a decent amount of roaches for some dps. and i'm sure there are more i cant think of at the moment. I've managed to get 1700's platinum and i hardly ever rely on roaches. I think this change will mostly affect the uncreative zerg players who horde roaches, even vs their counters like mauraders and immortals. I think the game is broken if the answer to mauraders and immortals is more roaches. In the end it will force zergs to be dynamic and creative, and will prevent mindless roach massing. As of now i welcome this change, and i look forward to blizz fairly working out any kinks this change may cause. Of course, i'm taking into account the planned changes to the infestor, overseer, and ultra. (which will be insta-boner i'm sure) The ragers should take a breather, open their minds, and adapt their play. zerg still rox my c0x and will only get better with the future changes. | ||
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Lollersauce
United States357 Posts
On May 14 2010 07:09 Newguy wrote: The roach nerf should allow for a more exciting early game tvz and pvz, as you can't be punished as easily by roaches now, although they are still viable against mass zealot etc. Blizzard Poster: Yeah much more exciting ZvT now, what with every unit melting to the mech ball and less roaches to help tank. Time to baneling bust every ZvT... /snore. | ||
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Ganondorf
Italy600 Posts
On May 14 2010 07:07 s031720 wrote: It would be interesting to let some korean zergs play at the european servers, that way we could get a better understanding of why the Z is so strong there and the Z is so weak here. Is it because the Korean terran and toss players are so weak, or is it because european zerg-players are so weak? Because when they base their "balancing" on Korea, it messed up for both the US and EU servers, so this should be investigated further I think. Personally, I really cant see how Z can stand up to the "balls of deaths" of P and T now, I think I will change to terran for this patch. A good opportunity to learn something new; and ill watch to see how the top Z players adapt. It will be interesting weeks. I think there's a tournament coming up with the best eu, us and kor players rapresenting their continent, just check the tournament forum. I'm looking forward to seeing those matches. | ||
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Fizbin
Canada202 Posts
On May 14 2010 07:07 s031720 wrote: It would be interesting to let some korean zergs play at the european servers, that way we could get a better understanding of why the Z is so strong there and the Z is so weak here. Is it because the Korean terran and toss players are so weak, or is it because european zerg-players are so weak? Because when they base their "balancing" on Korea, it messed up for both the US and EU servers, so this should be investigated further I think. Personally, I really cant see how Z can stand up to the "balls of deaths" of P and T now, I think I will change to terran for this patch. A good opportunity to learn something new; and ill watch to see how the top Z players adapt. It will be interesting weeks. ive been trying to find good replays of zerg players on korean servers. and i found a few.. it seems they get more queens and make better use of spine crawlers. even offencively. one european who did that was TLO vs WHITERA HDSC semi finals game on scrap station. check it out on u tube. also the koreans do more harrassing and flanking from what i have seen. i play platinum and have been trying to implement some of those strats. pretty intereseting. | ||
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Paperscraps
United States639 Posts
On May 14 2010 07:00 ret wrote: It's going to be incredibly hard to mold this mess they've made into something playable come july 27...not to mention all the other non-gameplay issues....AHHHHHH! dont think the roach nerf is so bad. But zerg has no end game options :=< Yeah, because broodlords aren't good late game. | ||
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