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Chriamon
United States886 Posts
On May 14 2010 06:05 ghostnuke1234 wrote: And the infestor is not a superior unit? ROFL. It's the best spell caster in the entire game. Am I the only one that this post completely confused? What the hell are you talking about? | ||
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mx99
Poland23 Posts
One more thing that i see may be benefitial after patch is that Z v Z early game can change now a bit in favor of speedlings opening. But deffending early game 2 gate zealot push will be now a little more difficult (roaches are around 10 minerals more expensive now) Additional thing - i am not sure if blizzard will reach their goal to change late game. If zerg will overmacro opponent he will now faster get limit 200/200 and attack earlier. | ||
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MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
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AsianEcksDragon
United States1036 Posts
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MutaDoom
Canada1163 Posts
On May 14 2010 06:00 LorDo wrote: Actually I'm extremely comfortable playing against roaches, this will mean more speedlings and faster hydras. That's worse for me (Protoss). Also Forge nerf is retarded, now double proxygate is more viable. So is not cheesing. | ||
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StorrZerg
United States13919 Posts
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Insanious
Canada1251 Posts
On May 14 2010 06:04 TrzystaDrzew wrote: And how many games You played to make such a statement? (here comes that sweet post replays emote). Let people play some and then we will see if that is so dramatic change. You don't need to play games to know: If you change P and Z, then all match ups are effected. If you change only T, then only match ups that involve T are affected... Unless your saying that by changing P and Z, magically PvZ stays the same even though there have been changes to the races... (expecially considering roaches were a MAJOR part of the end game in PvZ so ya...) Now if you just changed T, then PvZ would remain the same, and only TvP and TvZ would change, resulting in less changes to less matchups, buffing the race that is losing more, while leaving a balanced match up alone... :/ | ||
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fuzzehbunneh
United States66 Posts
People are too worried about late game, zergs will never get there to worry about that. Using ultras to tank... yea thats well and good but teching up to ultras takes forever..and they cost a ton. not to mention what happens if the opposing player decides to go air in that huge span of time, theres no gas left to make any decent amount of hydras and ultras cant attack air. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3132 Posts
On May 14 2010 06:07 mx99 wrote: I am wondering how this 2 food for roaches will impact some standard openings. One more thing that i see may be benefitial after patch is that Z v Z early game can change now a bit in favor of speedlings opening. But deffending early game 2 gate zealot push will be now a little more difficult (roaches are around 10 minerals more expensive now) Additional thing - i am not sure if blizzard will reach their goal to change late game. If zerg will overmacro opponent he will now faster get limit 200/200 and attack earlier. Uhh....speedlings were already favored on most maps. And even on maps they weren't favored on, it was still a boring fucking piranhaling fest. Snore. And yeah, the double gate of PvZ that comes literally every game will be that much harder to defend against. High five, everyone. | ||
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ghostnuke1234
164 Posts
On May 14 2010 05:56 iEchoic wrote: People crying about a Zerg and Protoss nerf are insane, Z and P win every single tournament out there, T is definitely behind at the moment, save your crying for something more important. ^^^ QFT For the first time at the tourneys with the top players playing, we saw the first TvT finals ever for the gosu coaching tourney yesterday. That's like 3 months of tourneys and the first TvT final (at least for US tourneys). | ||
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MutaDoom
Canada1163 Posts
On May 14 2010 06:09 Insanious wrote: You don't need to play games to know: If you change P and Z, then all match ups are effected. If you change only T, then only match ups that involve T are affected... Unless your saying that by changing P and Z, magically PvZ stays the same even though there have been changes to the races... (expecially considering roaches were a MAJOR part of the end game in PvZ so ya...) Now if you just changed T, then PvZ would remain the same, and only TvP and TvZ would change, resulting in less changes to less matchups, buffing the race that is losing more, while leaving a balanced match up alone... :/ I know where you're going with this, but TvT wouldn't be effected. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On May 14 2010 06:05 ghostnuke1234 wrote: And the infestor is not a superior unit? ROFL. It's the best spell caster in the entire game. Eh i'd argue that the raven is the best the infester is the clear 2nd best, then everything else is a defendant very useful but just not clearly a game changer like those two casters are. | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
Spawn larvae turtle was already imba enough, if Idra plays like most Koreans. | ||
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evilm0nkey
53 Posts
For the early game there might be some problems in ZvP with defending from 2-3 Gate Zealot and Roach builds in ZvZ might get really hard to pull off, but those things can be fixed. Blizzard only should have done this way earlier in the Beta. In Midgame this change shouldnt be a big deal. The big concern i have is lategame vs Terran Metal, i have no clue how to counter Hellion / Thor / Tank except maybe mass muta / broodlord wich is not that hard to counter for terran. Imagine playing BW ZvT Metal with Hydras at 2 Supply... That just doesnt work (like day9 said: you need a lot of shit vs tanks) I can't even think of a decent way for blizzard to fix this problem without changing the game more than we can expect at this late stage of beta. I think Hellions are the big problem with this ZvT Metal, they just counter Zerglings (supposed to counter tank + thor!) so ridiculusly hard, the unit gets completely obsolete because lings clump together so much in SC2. Why is that unit needed anyway? Terran already has Reapers for harassing... | ||
GTR
51576 Posts
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Chro
United States240 Posts
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MidKnight
Lithuania884 Posts
On May 14 2010 05:43 Hans-Titan wrote: "So, the change list is a little short this week." "Yea. I noticed that as well. Anything we can do about that?" "Increase build time and decrease HP/Shield of the forge?" "And let's buff Terran while we're at it." "Maybe shaft Z some more? I hear Terrans are losing TvZ!" "Really?!!? That can't be! Let's double Roach supply cost then." "Good idea. Lunch?" I can totally imagine Browder discussing things like that in this sort of casual manner.. Scary | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On May 14 2010 06:09 fuzzehbunneh wrote: Everyone is focused on roaches and late game and 200/200. im more concerned now about ever reaching 100. What is the zerg supposed to do about zealot rushes? or any kind of mech rush? the main counter they had to zealots is now only going to be present in half as many numbers early game. If that because of extra overlord cost. Then the early focus on having more minerals will lead to later second gas / later lair/ later anti air ETC... People are too worried about late game, zergs will never get there to worry about that. Using ultras to tank... yea thats well and good but teching up to ultras takes forever..and they cost a ton. not to mention what happens if the opposing player decides to go air in that huge span of time, theres no gas left to make any decent amount of hydras and ultras cant attack air. Gee, I dunno, how about making Roaches? Does 12.5 extra minerals per Roach suddenly make them not cost-effective against units they can kite for eternity (if you're getting rushed, you're on creep. Use it)? | ||
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ghostnuke1234
164 Posts
On May 14 2010 06:10 semantics wrote: Eh i'd argue that the raven is the best the infester is the clear 2nd best, then everything else is a defendant very useful but just not clearly a game changer like those two casters are. Nope, not since the Raven nerf last patch. HSM was severely nerfed last patch. NP was buffed because you can now NP air units. I stand by my words: THE INFESTOR IS THE BEST SPELL CASTER IN THE ENTIRE GAME | ||
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
allow certain commands to be turned off or lowered in sound in the options "not enough minerals" "need more depots" "nuclear launch detected" "we are in combat" "scv ready" "combat units ready" let us select some of these notices we want turned off or reduced in volume ingame plzzzzzzzzzzzz next, back to zerg. i am a plat toss player. these nerfs to zerg are getting downright laughable now. marauders are now always better than roaches. marauder 100min 25gas 125hp stim, conc. shells, 10 dmg + 10 armored 6 range roach 75min 25gas 145hp burrow, sucky burrowed movement, sucky burrowed regen 16 dmg 3range my god. roaches SUUUUUUUUUUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK now blizzard i know its "just beta" and you will fix it before release im just letting you know.... 1food roaches were perfectly balanced with their 1armor and low range combined with zergs overall race design. this is why roaches were balanced against both races at 1food vs terran roaches did not beat marauders which terrans got quickly, terrans thor/hellion/siege tanks/banshee/viking/medivac/raven seemed much better than zergs tier2 by comparison vs toss roaches beat zealots but as long as toss was smart and walled off his ramp then stalkers could shoot from behind the ramp and a zerg couldnt break toss early game defense. also each 100gas sentry that popped out for the toss could forcefield the ramp for 15 seconds for 50 energy, in which time it regenned 15 energy, and normally a zerg player would wait 3-4 seconds after the force field ended to try to move up the ramp again so 2 sentrys could force field a ramp twice for 30 seconds of force field + 7 seconds of waiting time. that gave the toss just 13 seconds of time needed to fight on the ramp with zeals/stalker before force field could be used AGAIN to defend against the zerg until immortal or void ray came out which absolutely decimated roaches. and this 37 second / 13 second energy example is assuming the sentry uses force field the MOMENT it spawns to fight off the zerg and the second gateway gets out its sentry 15 seconds later. assuming the sentry had a small amount of time to chill and regen energy its even better for the toss. and roaches/sentrys/stalker come out at around the same time but the zerg player has to walk all the way to the toss's base giving the toss an advantage that explains how 1food roaches were perfectly balanced against toss/terran. now with the huge nerf to brood lords and zergs seemingly crappy t2/t3 compared to other races t2/t3.... wtf? fix it blizzard. bring roaches back to 1food. also i believe queens should have a HIVE UPGRADE for increased speed. make this HIVE UPGRADE for the queens cause them to move as fast off creep as they do on creep, and make the upgrade decrease queen build time by 50-75% the reason i suggest such an upgrade to queens is they were nerfed only to stop the early-game-cheese-rushes in korea.... but late game queens could be a decent anti-air unit that costs only minerals however the queens were nerfed so hard because of early game that they no longer serve a late game anti-air role that i think they should serve since queens are supposed to be a fighting unit not just a macro mechanic | ||
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