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Patch 12 - Changes and Discussion - Page 39

Forum Index > SC2 General
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PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
May 13 2010 20:48 GMT
#761
Not at all bothered by the roach nerf as a zerg player. i recently have been diversifying my zerg army in all matches and rolling everyone. hardly affects this method of zerg (which is stronger anyway), it's not the end of the world at all. thought it is odd zerg has no unit except the drone that is 1 food.
FarbrorAbavna
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden4856 Posts
May 13 2010 20:49 GMT
#762
man how can blizz think that having an army that is relying on one single unit with one or two other units sparsely sprinkled inbetween not be a good thing. Especially since it works for every damn match up no matter what the opponent does. Oh yeah and it also hinders diversity. How can it be a good thing to try and change this? man blizz are so stupid.

/irony
Do you really want chat rooms?
gereth86
Profile Joined February 2010
United States26 Posts
May 13 2010 20:49 GMT
#763
On May 14 2010 05:39 Orome wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 05:34 gereth86 wrote:
On May 14 2010 05:12 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On May 14 2010 05:08 gereth86 wrote:
On May 14 2010 04:51 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On May 14 2010 04:50 Paperscraps wrote:
Roach nerf. It really only affects late game zerg, if you understand this then you probably aren't complaining in the first place. Good zerg players will still do well in ladder, bad zerg players will still do bad.


Yeah, cause an extra 100 minerals for an Overlord every 4 Roaches is totally cheap and irrelevant early game. No effect whatsoever!

Basically Zerg is gonna have no way to defend the first Protoss push except mass 100000 Spine Crawlers at the nat right now and ruining the economy.


A roach cost change (early game) from 75/25 to 100/25 is *not* a huge change. Roaches at 75/25 were the most cost effective unit in the game imo. Now they are much more average.

And defending against a 1 base push? Yea, it must be impossible now with 4-5 roaches instead of 5-6. Get 1 extra spine crawler to compensate the loss of a roach or two.


This is a late game change. It was broken for zerg to be able to mass so many roaches once the macro game was up and you were at 3-4 expos.


As someone who obviously doesn't play Zerg, you should go play Zerg and try it out right now.

It's not just 75/25 to 100/25, there's increased larva usage and increased wait time. IT's more like 4-5 Roaches instead of 8-9.


Do you really feel that the supply change brings 8-9 roaches down to 4-5 early game? to get to 8 roaches we are talking about spending an extra 100 minerals and 1 larvae on top of what it was previously. Thats what, maybe an extra 20 seconds for the time needed for extra mining.

So where previously you could get 9 roaches, now you get 8 in 15-20 seconds longer? (assuming your planning ahead on the overlord and not supply blocking yourself)

I'm not arguing that this is not a big change, I just feel that most are way over exaggerating the in-game effect of a supply nerf on the early game. Late game, yes this is a big change and will likely force zerg into a different standard mix of units from the roach/hydra. Not that roaches will go unused, they will just now be 1/3 of the army comp instead of 2/3.


The problem is that builds like the 15 pool 16 hatch into roaches that people like Artosis have been doing ZvZ is now completely impossible. It was already an extremely close battle to not lose your natural against speedlings, now it'll just be impossible.

It fucks up roach openings in ZvZ (until midgame at the very least) and it's going to have a huge effect vs PT late-game.


ZvZ early game most certainly will change with this, I agree with you completely there. and P/T late game is nerfed, much like my point states. ZvZ both players are dealing with the same potential builds though, so yes, a FE roach opening is no longer possible. Whats the big deal with that? There will be other FE ZvZ builds that come up. Whether that be spine crawlers into expand or fast baneling (to counter mass ling) into a FE. P/T late game nerf is the point of the nerf, and something I agree on. A 200/200 zerg army should *not* beat a 200/200 P or T army. Late game, Z has the best production capability and the fastest potential tech switches, they should be maxing their food first, expanding first, replenshing their army faster, etc. Its just how the race works. Its ridiculous that massing a single unit to the food cap will beat the ground armys of both other races.
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 20:50:38
May 13 2010 20:50 GMT
#764
On May 14 2010 05:33 vesicular wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 04:48 KhAlleB wrote:
Tester is probably so upset now. lol

he just said terran is the stronger race in teh game and blizz buff them and nerf other

XD


What exactly did blizzard buff on Thors? Cuz the way I'm reading it it seems like a nerf to me.

Unit size, so they don't bunch up on ramps.

Why not the ultra, though, it suffers worse than thor with size.
eNoq
Profile Joined June 2009
Netherlands502 Posts
May 13 2010 20:50 GMT
#765
honestly, zerg is becoming unplayable, this change just fucked so much shit over.
They shouldve reduced size of ultra like the thor, and give lings adrenaline buff.
Whats the idea of giving roaches 2 supply? I don't get it.
Proburu
HeyheyLBJ
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden160 Posts
May 13 2010 20:50 GMT
#766
On May 14 2010 05:47 arb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 05:21 dicember wrote:
On May 14 2010 02:58 a176 wrote:
Zerg units with 2 food:

Everything except for drone and zergling.

So much for the "swarm".


in SC1 they were the swarm.

in SC2, they are intergalactic insects. they totally fucked up their concept of zerg during the drawing stages. ZERG ARE NOT FUCKING BUGS. I hate all this gross sound shit that zerg makes. Zerg should inspire fear with overwhelming numbers.

to be fair, everything in sc1 except the zergling hydra and scourge were 2+ supply btw(not counting the drone) 2 units more zomg,considering 1 of those is removed and one has been buffed to where it needed it?


Lol. So what if one of them were removed? That's like removing Ultralisks without replacing and them and telling people that complain Zerg lacks a supply-heavy unit "who cares? Ultras were removed anyway!"

Doesn't make sense, you see.

And neither do you.
Dave[9]
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
United States2365 Posts
May 13 2010 20:50 GMT
#767
the zerg nerf sucks, it's like theyre telling us to use zerglings more when zerglings are already a terrible unit for composition. Why do i even want to get roaches now when i can get hydras?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=104154&currentpage=316#6317
Shenron
Profile Joined May 2010
United States105 Posts
May 13 2010 20:50 GMT
#768
So Thors... a ranged unit that is consistently part of terran builds gets a size reduction.
So Ultralisks... a melee units which is not used specificly because of it's size gets nothing.

And Roaches become garbage. Ic.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, death has not come, and when death has come, we are not. ~Epicurus
BlueApex
Profile Joined May 2010
63 Posts
May 13 2010 20:51 GMT
#769
Smaller thor should make it easier to use on these maps, IMO it was always too big.
The very best, I want to be
RogerChillingworth
Profile Joined March 2010
Chad3132 Posts
May 13 2010 20:52 GMT
#770
On May 14 2010 05:48 PrinceXizor wrote:
Not at all bothered by the roach nerf as a zerg player. i recently have been diversifying my zerg army in all matches and rolling everyone. hardly affects this method of zerg (which is stronger anyway), it's not the end of the world at all. thought it is odd zerg has no unit except the drone that is 1 food.


Rock on in that silver league.
D10
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Brazil3409 Posts
May 13 2010 20:52 GMT
#771
Lol I just switched from T to Z =O
" We are not humans having spiritual experiences. - We are spirits having human experiences." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
andyrichdale
Profile Joined April 2010
New Zealand90 Posts
May 13 2010 20:52 GMT
#772
On May 14 2010 05:41 TrzystaDrzew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 05:38 vesicular wrote:
On May 14 2010 05:35 Azarkon wrote:
On May 14 2010 05:33 vesicular wrote:
On May 14 2010 04:48 KhAlleB wrote:
Tester is probably so upset now. lol

he just said terran is the stronger race in teh game and blizz buff them and nerf other

XD


What exactly did blizzard buff on Thors? Cuz the way I'm reading it it seems like a nerf to me.


It became smaller in size, meaning less clunkiness, and more Thors attacking in a given area.


But it also means any AOE will hit more Thors in the same area. I guess that's what I'd consider the nerf part.


That's why I would call it "rebalance" rather than buff of nerf.


What? Impossible! Every change has to be a buff or a nerf so I can rage about something!
BlasiuS
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States2405 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 20:55:04
May 13 2010 20:52 GMT
#773
On May 14 2010 05:41 TrzystaDrzew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 05:38 vesicular wrote:
On May 14 2010 05:35 Azarkon wrote:
On May 14 2010 05:33 vesicular wrote:
On May 14 2010 04:48 KhAlleB wrote:
Tester is probably so upset now. lol

he just said terran is the stronger race in teh game and blizz buff them and nerf other

XD


What exactly did blizzard buff on Thors? Cuz the way I'm reading it it seems like a nerf to me.


It became smaller in size, meaning less clunkiness, and more Thors attacking in a given area.


But it also means any AOE will hit more Thors in the same area. I guess that's what I'd consider the nerf part.


That's why I would call it "rebalance" rather than buff of nerf. More AOE aka FG is scary.

P.S.
I still want to see "ThorShip" picture- anyone?


Uh, FG does 36 damage.
Thor has 400 hp.

No matter how big or small Thor is...that's not scary at all.
next week on Everybody Loves HypnoToad:
Disastorm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States922 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 20:53:33
May 13 2010 20:52 GMT
#774
On May 14 2010 05:50 Shenron wrote:
So Thors... a ranged unit that is consistently part of terran builds gets a size reduction.
So Ultralisks... a melee units which is not used specificly because of it's size gets nothing.

And Roaches become garbage. Ic.



Blizz has said they gonna megabuff ultras but just havn't gotten around to it yet. I think until Blizzard gets around to actually balancing Zerg, they will be underpowered until these buffs happen.
"Don't worry so much man. There won't be any more zergs left to QQ. Lots of QQ about TvT is incoming though I bet." - Vrok 9/21/10
TrzystaDrzew
Profile Joined April 2010
Poland72 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 20:57:32
May 13 2010 20:54 GMT
#775
On May 14 2010 05:39 huameng wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 04:42 TrzystaDrzew wrote:
Any one can paste screen with new Thor attached to dropship? My Battlenet is still down for maintenance.


+ Show Spoiler [thorship] +
[image loading]


It's not attached to the medivac at all... was it like this before? Never checked.


Before Thor was so big that it couldn't get into but it was attached to the bottom of the Medivac and that looked great. I guess it model size was designed to match the dropship. Now Thor looks pretty awkward floating below Medivac. Shame You Blizz!

On May 14 2010 05:52 BlasiuS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 05:41 TrzystaDrzew wrote:
On May 14 2010 05:38 vesicular wrote:
On May 14 2010 05:35 Azarkon wrote:
On May 14 2010 05:33 vesicular wrote:
On May 14 2010 04:48 KhAlleB wrote:
Tester is probably so upset now. lol

he just said terran is the stronger race in teh game and blizz buff them and nerf other

XD


What exactly did blizzard buff on Thors? Cuz the way I'm reading it it seems like a nerf to me.


It became smaller in size, meaning less clunkiness, and more Thors attacking in a given area.


But it also means any AOE will hit more Thors in the same area. I guess that's what I'd consider the nerf part.


That's why I would call it "rebalance" rather than buff of nerf. More AOE aka FG is scary.

P.S.
I still want to see "ThorShip" picture- anyone?


Uh, FG does 36 damage.
Thor has 400 hp.

No matter how big or small Thor is...that's not scary at all.


No kitting is scary.
University
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States263 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 20:55:53
May 13 2010 20:54 GMT
#776
On May 14 2010 05:33 vesicular wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 04:48 KhAlleB wrote:
Tester is probably so upset now. lol

he just said terran is the stronger race in teh game and blizz buff them and nerf other

XD


What exactly did blizzard buff on Thors? Cuz the way I'm reading it it seems like a nerf to me.


They decreased the radius and size of the unit, so that you can pack more of a punch into the same space. They are less bulky and easier to use now.

EDIT: I am laughing SO hard at the thorship picture right now.
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
May 13 2010 20:55 GMT
#777
roach spam in all three matchups was getting ridiculous
savior did nothing wrong
Kyouya
Profile Joined January 2008
Mexico318 Posts
May 13 2010 20:55 GMT
#778
No more swarm army, just a compact one
Strike First, Strike Hard, Show No Mercy.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 20:55:56
May 13 2010 20:55 GMT
#779
"Blizzard said they will change ultralisks at some indeterminable point in the future, so don't worry about the nerfs that keep coming patch after patch!"

:|
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 20:56:14
May 13 2010 20:55 GMT
#780
i wonder why they make tvz so much easier when we were struggling in tvp. maybe im just a bad tvp
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
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