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On May 14 2010 05:05 Johoseph wrote:
I just wish they would make zerg into zerg again. Instead of massing units to overwhelm them, we're left with stronger units and one caster to compliment them.
I still see the zerg mass waves after wave of units... I just beat they roach hidra army and when im about to take the base down, another big ass group apears and i must retread or get destroyed, zerg can still mass units big time Larva mecanic rocks for this
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On May 14 2010 05:01 nodq wrote:now i will have cut my raoch units in half... lol. just stupid for early game. Isn't more like 20% fewer roaches? You need an extra overlord for every four roaches you make. It only really becomes half when you're maxed in supply.
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On May 14 2010 05:08 gereth86 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 04:51 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 14 2010 04:50 Paperscraps wrote:
Roach nerf. It really only affects late game zerg, if you understand this then you probably aren't complaining in the first place. Good zerg players will still do well in ladder, bad zerg players will still do bad. Yeah, cause an extra 100 minerals for an Overlord every 4 Roaches is totally cheap and irrelevant early game. No effect whatsoever! Basically Zerg is gonna have no way to defend the first Protoss push except mass 100000 Spine Crawlers at the nat right now and ruining the economy. A roach cost change (early game) from 75/25 to 100/25 is *not* a huge change. Roaches at 75/25 were the most cost effective unit in the game imo. Now they are much more average. And defending against a 1 base push? Yea, it must be impossible now with 4-5 roaches instead of 5-6. Get 1 extra spine crawler to compensate the loss of a roach or two. This is a late game change. It was broken for zerg to be able to mass so many roaches once the macro game was up and you were at 3-4 expos.
That's an absolutely retarded comparison. It means you have to build overlords more regularly and you also have less larvae on top. Your initial roaches will get out much slower because of supply caps as well.
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On May 14 2010 05:09 dicember wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 02:57 lew wrote:
Hydra's > Marauders
But it's true: helions will be stronger then, maybe you've got to be fucking me. there is no zerg unit that is better than marauders except mutas, and that's only because marauders can't shoot back. Marauders > zerglings Marauders > banelings Marauders > roaches Marauders > hydras
Are you not upgrading your hydras, not fighting on creep, or have much less hydra than marauder? Because hydra are great against marauders. They do like double the DPS. Throwing in lings from excess minerals is great since 4 zerglings soak about 2 hydras worth of damage.
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Baa?21248 Posts
On May 14 2010 05:08 gereth86 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 04:51 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 14 2010 04:50 Paperscraps wrote:
Roach nerf. It really only affects late game zerg, if you understand this then you probably aren't complaining in the first place. Good zerg players will still do well in ladder, bad zerg players will still do bad. Yeah, cause an extra 100 minerals for an Overlord every 4 Roaches is totally cheap and irrelevant early game. No effect whatsoever! Basically Zerg is gonna have no way to defend the first Protoss push except mass 100000 Spine Crawlers at the nat right now and ruining the economy. A roach cost change (early game) from 75/25 to 100/25 is *not* a huge change. Roaches at 75/25 were the most cost effective unit in the game imo. Now they are much more average. And defending against a 1 base push? Yea, it must be impossible now with 4-5 roaches instead of 5-6. Get 1 extra spine crawler to compensate the loss of a roach or two. This is a late game change. It was broken for zerg to be able to mass so many roaches once the macro game was up and you were at 3-4 expos.
As someone who obviously doesn't play Zerg, you should go play Zerg and try it out right now.
It's not just 75/25 to 100/25, there's increased larva usage and increased wait time. IT's more like 4-5 Roaches instead of 8-9.
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On May 14 2010 02:55 sob3k wrote:
This is a HUGE, late game zerg nerf.
you can now have HALF as many roaches as you could before....
GOOD NERF by Blizzard. For all those complaining, zerg players have been dominating at the tourneys - Sheth, Idra, Slush, etc.
It's silly that you can mass roaches/hydra with infestors to FG/NP and walk over either Terran or Protoss. Not to mention as a zerg player, you can drop creep on your opponent's expos or do a quick muta switch, etc, and it became absurd how successful the top zerg players were in tourneys.
On top of this, Zerg always have a macro advantage over the other races, and it's about time that Blizzard recognized these issues.
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On May 14 2010 05:09 checo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 05:05 Johoseph wrote:
I just wish they would make zerg into zerg again. Instead of massing units to overwhelm them, we're left with stronger units and one caster to compliment them. I still see the zerg mass waves after wave of units... I just beat they roach hidra army and when im about to take the base down, another big ass group apears and i must retread or get destroyed, zerg can still mass units big time Larva mecanic rocks for this
That's not "massing", that's "rebuilding".
Which are two entirely different things.
Zerg really doesn't "swarm" anymore, they just respawn...
Problem is no amount of respawns is going to help you against a big ball of terran mech or toss high tier.
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Hydras beat Marauders. Zerglings & Hydras definitely beat Marauders.
Roaches are the unit counter to Marines. However, Zerg still has an option in Infestors.
What I don't get is how Zerg is supposed to counter Hellions + Thors (+ Tanks). We'll see I guess.
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United States22883 Posts
I think zerg players need to look at this patch in the greater scheme of things; this is not the final version of zerg.
They're undoing roach dominance so they can reassess how zerg works and figure out how to make other units more viable. Part of the problem is that people were venturing away from roaches in the last couple of weeks but still...
They can't patch all the changes at once. You need to go step by step to see how each change affects everything.
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The forge nerf makes it sound like they're making game changes to accommodate bad/unlucky players =/ Doesn't seem like a good idea.
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On May 14 2010 05:16 Azarkon wrote:
What I don't get is how Zerg is supposed to counter Hellions + Thors (+ Tanks).
Glad to see even terran players don't know. lol.
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On May 14 2010 05:09 KCrazy wrote:
i picked a bad week to switch to zerg T_T
Oh man just the thing I was thinking. I just got the hang of zerg macro again and now this... I dont understand the point of nerfing roaches again. They already got nerfed and have tons of counters. Ive been playing random and never really had any problems with roaches. And Imo zerglings arent that good either, you need just like a few colossus/psi storm/helions or so to totally rape all your opponents zerglings in a record time... The thor change was okay and I dont really care about the protoss change.. But blizzard please give the roaches a break 
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So early pushes with roach is gone. That was fun.
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On May 14 2010 05:09 dicember wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 02:57 lew wrote:
Hydra's > Marauders
But it's true: helions will be stronger then, maybe you've got to be fucking me. there is no zerg unit that is better than marauders except mutas, and that's only because marauders can't shoot back. Marauders > zerglingsMarauders > banelings Marauders > roaches Marauders > hydrasMarauders > ultralisks
Do you not play the game? Those two are pretty much hard counters and if they meet in mass the marauder will get spanked without a lot of support.
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rofl. was "p..mmhh ok.t.. mmhh nice.z... wtf aahahaa r u srs?"
really weird patch. way too small changes except that 1 big one
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I remember watching strelok vs dimaga, and 2 marauders lost vs 1 hydra I think :o.
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Baa?21248 Posts
On May 14 2010 05:19 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 05:09 dicember wrote:On May 14 2010 02:57 lew wrote:
Hydra's > Marauders
But it's true: helions will be stronger then, maybe you've got to be fucking me. there is no zerg unit that is better than marauders except mutas, and that's only because marauders can't shoot back. Marauders > zerglingsMarauders > banelings Marauders > roaches Marauders > hydrasMarauders > ultralisks Do you not play the game? Those two certainly aren't hard counters and if they meet in mass the marauder will get spanked without a lot of support.
Actually mass Marauder s> Mass Hydralisks, Hydralisks need some form of support in all regards, be it Ling or Roach.
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Fixed a crash which sometimes occurred when quitting the program.
- That is nice, but they still need to fix replay bug and map preview bug many people are experiencing...
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reason for forge nerf is probably that there are some cheeses that are pretty hard to stop by toss where they build a gate/forge in your base even if its in plain sight.
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EPT
