EPTOn May 14 2010 04:09 RogerChillingworth wrote:
God I want to dropkick a helpless infant.
God I want to dropkick a helpless infant.
You might be my favorite person. God forbid we wind up in a maternity ward.
Patch 12 - Changes and Discussion - Page 27
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MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
You might be my favorite person. God forbid we wind up in a maternity ward. | ||
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
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Sensator
Australia377 Posts
On May 14 2010 04:04 Lollersauce wrote: NEW TVZ: -Make a reaper or two to force Zerg into 2 supply roaches and/or spines that take a year to reroot. -Transition into reactored hellions to keep him on the roach track while you go into mass mech ball. -??? -Collect win. This pretty much, although Roaches don't really counter Reapers that much. I'd definitely get speedlings to counter reapers. But then you'd have to get Roaches to at the very least block off the ramp for Hellion harass. | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On May 14 2010 03:43 TSL-Lore wrote: Making the roach 2 food is completely the wrong direction and shows that Blizzard has pigeon-holed themselves into non-creative and un-fun changes with no regard for the flavor of the race. By making the roach 2 food, they're completely destroying the philosophy of "quantity over quality" that zerg users knew and fell in love with. The change is a lazy one. Some people in this thread have voted to "increase the power of the roach to match its 2 psi requirement" but this is the wrong way about it as well. What kind of tier 1 zerg unit costs 2 food? It doesn't fit, damnit. the roach "vehicle design" was wrong to begin with. The entire point of the macro mechanics of the zerg race was to be able to produce weaker units, but at a much higher production rate than any other race. The hatchery/larvae injection mechanic is designed for this. The roach may or may not need a nerf, but the nerf should come in making the unit itself weaker and/or faster... not make it bulkier and cost more (that is the way of the protoss). I hate this change, not because it is a nerf, but because it is not Zerg. See, that's a legitimate piece of feedback. I like it. Nerfing Roach stats would be a better alternative than changing supply costs. I can't stand all of this complaining how the Roach is now 50% as strong because of a supply cost nerf. Are people really that bad at math? If the Collossus cost 1 food today, what would happen? Nothing! One-base can still only produce one Collossus at a time, so its not like I'm going to have overwhelming numbers of the things in an instant. I'll just have spare minerals, from not having to build so many Pylons, to pump extra Zealots, build Cannons etc. The supply cost nerf is little different to a resource cost nerf. Its just 12.5 extra minerals per Roach, and an extra larva on occasion. | ||
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MLG_Wiggin
United States767 Posts
On May 14 2010 04:10 Newguy wrote: I think this patch balances zerg a bit better, it might lead to people trying out broodlord/ultra late game instead of pure roach/hydra/infestor. We should remember that on the Korean servers zerg has an insane win rate, and blizzard shouldn't balance the game so that zerg players on EU and US have better win ratios if on Korean servers 70% of games are won by zerg. They had an insane win rate three patches ago. Not so much now. | ||
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
On May 14 2010 04:09 RogerChillingworth wrote: God I want to dropkick a helpless infant. Why not go play a PvZ, it'll be the same thing.  | ||
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Kare
Norway786 Posts
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
On May 14 2010 04:10 Sensator wrote: This pretty much, although Roaches don't really counter Reapers that much. I'd definitely get speedlings to counter reapers. But then you'd have to get Roaches to at the very least block off the ramp for Hellion harass. Reaper+bunker imo | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23470 Posts
On May 14 2010 04:11 Jyvblamo wrote: Why not go play a PvZ, it'll be the same thing. You sir, are funny. | ||
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Kokosaft
Germany172 Posts
On May 14 2010 04:05 Spawkuring wrote: The difference is that Protoss are a small army with strong units race while Zerg are the big army with weak units race. When a strong unit like the zealot can't go 1v1 against a Zerg unit then there's an issue. Roaches may be tier 1.5, but they were also extremely cheap and cost-effective, and could pretty much destroy everything the Protoss had before tier 2. Doesn't 2 supply for roaches oppose this concept then ? (I don't say the change wasn't justified, but I feel it's the wrong way to balance out roaches.) | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3132 Posts
On May 14 2010 04:10 Newguy wrote: I think this patch balances zerg a bit better, it might lead to people trying out broodlord/ultra late game instead of pure roach/hydra/infestor. We should remember that on the Korean servers zerg has an insane win rate, and blizzard shouldn't balance the game so that zerg players on EU and US have better win ratios if on Korean servers 70% of games are won by zerg. Zerg's tier 3 is fucking ass if you haven't noticed (your not being a zerg player kind of explains the lack of understanding that tier 3 isn't viable right now). | ||
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Quixoticism
United States80 Posts
I like the size change to the Thor, they're starting to shrink down the units that are just way too big. I laughed at the screenshot of the new Thors early in this thread because they look like oversized SCVs. | ||
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Roniii
United States289 Posts
On May 14 2010 04:05 Disastorm wrote: Hm. Does anyone else think that the patches aren't actually intended to be balanced. For example these last 2 patches don't seem very balanced for Zerg but when hearing about all the Zerg buffs in the future, I feel that they will balance out the Zerg nerfs. However, during this transition period, Zerg will littterally be underpowered? I think you are correct here. This patch seems like a stepping stone in a roll out of changes they are making. Alone it doesnt seem all that balanced but in combination with patches they have already developed/or are developing, it is progress towards balance. | ||
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zak
Korea (South)1009 Posts
On May 14 2010 02:51 FrozenArbiter wrote: .............. What the fuck, I feel bad for Zerg. I don't understand. Did people honestly think roaches were overpowered? 1600 plat here, I was constantly steamrolled by marauders, blinking stalkers, immortals, etc. This nerf hurts and trust me, I have a feeling there will be more roach nerfs. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
its basically exactly like sc1 mech just twice as strong in late game | ||
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Bluerain
United States348 Posts
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Killver
Austria88 Posts
On May 14 2010 04:09 s.a.y wrote: i think they will buff ultralisks in the next patch and improve Zergs late game options. Zergs will need to relearn the timings on roach pushes. Forge build time will provide problems in 2vs2 2Z vs 2P matchup. It's hard to stop double 6 pool rush. Any ideas to solve this problem? We play 2P and we can just defend it this way | ||
Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On May 14 2010 04:04 Lollersauce wrote: NEW TVZ: -Make a reaper or two to force Zerg into 2 supply roaches and/or spines that take a year to reroot. -Transition into reactored hellions to keep him on the roach track while you go into mass mech ball. -??? -Collect win. wtf? queens + lings are more than enough to stop reapers man. queen stalls for ling speed to finish | ||
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Ecael
United States6703 Posts
On May 14 2010 04:10 Bibdy wrote: See, that's a legitimate piece of feedback. I like it. Nerfing Roach stats would be a better alternative than changing supply costs. I can't stand all of this complaining how the Roach is now 50% as strong because of a supply cost nerf. Are people really that bad at math? If the Collossus cost 1 food today, what would happen? Nothing! One-base can still only produce one Collossus at a time, so its not like I'm going to have overwhelming numbers of the things in an instant. I'll just have spare minerals, from not having to build so many Pylons, to pump extra Zealots, build Cannons etc. The supply cost nerf is little different to a resource cost nerf. Its just 12.5 extra minerals per Roach, and an extra larva on occasion. Like someone else said, it forces Zs to have more spare population sitting around because we can't pump emergency roaches for defense now. That hurts, but it isn't too unreasonable, sort of. The real problem lies higher up in supply when you start hitting caps. A 200/200 army composed of roaches will now have 100 roaches instead of 200, a very real difference, right? While it isn't reasonable to expect that Zs will be massing just roaches, it does mean that what was a significant backbone of Z army will now be half as many. And, unfortunately, that half turns out to be the part that's helping Zs tank damage till it gets within a distance to strike. So the longer the game gets, the more crippling this nerf to tanking ability shows. So really, was 200/200 Z late game army flat out beating toss and terran? That's the only situation I can see that would justify this kind of a change to supply. And that's assuming we have a significant portion of that army being roaches. | ||
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