EPTPatch 12 - Changes and Discussion - Page 26
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Disastorm
United States922 Posts
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kencheeto
United States54 Posts
Also, I'm not sure how the mothership vortex removing FF will be that effective- vortex removes all units from play anyway, so its not like it opens the way for melee to get through.. ? | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
A bit rantish maybe, but I've been having serious ZvT issues and this patch does not help in the slightest. | ||
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Spawkuring
United States755 Posts
On May 14 2010 04:03 CubE. wrote: A roach should win 1:1 against a zealot is a tier 1.5 unit that requires and extra building to be created... That's like saying a stalker beats a marine 1v1 the marine should be 2 supply The difference is that Protoss are a small army with strong units race while Zerg are the big army with weak units race. When a strong unit like the zealot can't go 1v1 against a Zerg unit then there's an issue. Roaches may be tier 1.5, but they were also extremely cheap and cost-effective, and could pretty much destroy everything the Protoss had before tier 2. | ||
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MeruFM
United States167 Posts
On May 14 2010 04:00 Bluerain wrote: its called ghosts EMP and snipe. rapes infestors like nothing. snipe bypasses armor so they might be ok vs ultras too lol Fungal growth and infest both have longer range than emp/snipe. It's not really a hard counter but evenly micro'd, infestors usually come out on top. Ghost do have cloak to their advantage though. But that's also countered by the fact that the 150/150 cost of ghosts is difficult to justify when its main ability is only useful vs a couple of zerg units. | ||
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NokCha
Korea (South)410 Posts
Nothing is permanent why can't you guys just enjoy the game and discover lots of new build orders or strategies rather than hug roaches~ :\ I've encountered so many roach rushes, i don't even bother scouting zerg half the time. Its more fun when i actually have to read my opponent~ | ||
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zomgzergrush
United States923 Posts
On May 14 2010 04:05 Spawkuring wrote: The difference is that Protoss are a small army with strong units race while Zerg are the big army with weak units race. When a strong unit like the zealot can't go 1v1 against a Zerg unit then there's an issue. Roaches may be tier 1.5, but they were also extremely cheap and cost-effective, and could pretty much destroy everything the Protoss had before tier 2. That's a difference, yes, but Z has a shittier economy during that tier. Even if Z should have more units, the units aren't free. The damn things costs gas for christ sake, | ||
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tenno
Germany20 Posts
On May 14 2010 03:59 Chronopolis wrote: Roach + Supply count increased from 1 to 2. Not exactly sure how much of an impact this will have on zerg, but for sure, it will reduce the stregnth of the zerg's 200/200 army. Roaches are now supply whores, like zealots. As a biased protoss favour, I support this change, seeing as how a roach wins 1:1 against a zealot, and how cheap they are. Also, this increase in supply will probably strengthen the protoss FE build in PvZ, as the protoss can get away with less cannons. 1. Roach cost gas, which is more important than minerals (even if its only a small amount of gas) 2. make speed upgrade for zeals and roaches are not that good anymore. Whats your guess Z is now building against P in early game? Zerglings? half number of roaches is nonsens | ||
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okrane
France265 Posts
Roaches are just too mighty to be a 1 supply unit. Plat Zerg player here: Roaches are indeed too mighty for 1 food, but this one is simply looking at the unit in void, and not taking into account all other implications in different match-ups. I believe this change can be beneficial in ZvZ where we might end-up seing more Speedling/Baneling play. However Zerg's early game against P and T had its vulnerabilities to timing pushes and right now, this change will furthermore enforce turtling, because Zerg's agression possibilities are being weakened with every patch. The main momentum issue I am foreseing right now is the fact that those 4 larva that pop from a queen inject can now produce an overlord's worth population of roaches. Given the low cost of the roaches the zerg's population will increase rapidly in the early mid game, whithout actually accounting for army strenght. Not to mention the fact that supply blocks are a more important risk. Simply put, if you scout a timing push, without having around 2 overlords worth of population, you risk not being able to use your available larva for defending units. Seems to me that the new tactic right now is to always have around 15 population available. (anticipating overlord production will become really important early-game) In 200 supply battles Roaches can be very difficult to deal with even with the correct counters in play by protoss or terran players. I wholeheartedly disagree. Terrans have always had the marrauder which is a superb unit, way superior to the roach even in their 1food incarnation. Stimpacks, larger range and medivacs make end-game terran more than able to counter the roaches. Protoss can simply go Forcefield-Immortal. In my games, I have not felt overpowered because I had a meatshield of roaches in front of my Hydras. One thing is clear. 200 supply of Hydra-Roach is going to be very weakened. My question is: was this 200supply army so unbeatable pre-patch? It seemed to me that the 200 supply counterpart armies of Terran and Protoss, usually killed Hydra-Roach pretty fast, zerg relying on fast reinforcements to gain the upper hand. | ||
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TrzystaDrzew
Poland72 Posts
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roemy
Germany432 Posts
On May 14 2010 03:31 iamtenninja wrote: Radius decreased from 1.375 to 0.8125. Question from someone who's not in the beta: Haven't done any research but can Thors still tank (by covering a large amount of the splash radius) siege tanks' splash damage or is the Thor now smaller than the splash and therefore loses some role in its tanking ability? technically yes. siege tank splash goes up to a 1.25 radius. however, that far out, it's only 25% or 15 plus whatever upgrade level you might have. the 50% radius only goes up to 0.7812. with splash now originating at the target's center, i'd still say the thor sucks it up quite well. | ||
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OneWhoIsMany
Canada292 Posts
Zerg may have a bad time for one patch, but I have also read numerous threads that state that zerg is not a very fun race to play. One of the reasons for this is directly related to those roaches being so damn cost effective. It means you can't really have a dynamic match when one unit is just so useful. Change the roach, see what happens, maybe something that is for the better, maybe something that is not. One thing is certain it will change the match-ups, is it balanced? - unlikely but maybe it's better to make something weak to make it balanced and FUN in the future. | ||
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Disastorm
United States922 Posts
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Distortionz
United States133 Posts
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ghen
United States1356 Posts
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
On May 14 2010 03:51 [Agony]x90 wrote: It's nice to know that the ONLY thing that removes force field is a unit from the same race that comes at the opposite end of the tech tree. My 2v2 partner and I are looking to perma block some people into bases and see how that works lol. Anyways, I wonder if this change was for balance, or for buggy issues. Rather have seen an energy cost increase for field or making it tech upgrade since P v Z is absolutely retarded. | ||
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Kare
Norway786 Posts
On May 14 2010 04:00 NB wrote: just passed by the NSFW thread and saw this NSFW:+ Show Spoiler + mean while at blizzard HQ ![[image loading]](http://static.gamesports.net/starcraft/picdb/1016.jpg) I almost fell of my chair in laughter when I saw that picture, god bless you laddy!  | ||
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s.a.y
Croatia3840 Posts
Forge build time will provide problems in 2vs2 2Z vs 2P matchup. It's hard to stop double 6 pool rush. | ||
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
And still can't wait to see what they have in store for ultras ;D | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3131 Posts
This is the first time I've questioned if Blizzard knows what they're doing. The Zerg nerfs have come from what the Asian server has been doing ZvZ. Well that's awesome. People think the roach supply explosion will make zerg more dynamic? Are you trolling? Not to mention ZvZ now has 1 viable early game strat instead of 2. Queue unmicroable, piranha-esque speedlings stage left. God I want to dropkick a helpless infant. | ||
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