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Patch 12 - Changes and Discussion - Page 24

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Ganondorf
Profile Joined April 2010
Italy600 Posts
May 13 2010 18:57 GMT
#461
They are obviously trying to patch the game to make it fun for casuals first, don't expect much balance for competitive gaming before all the casuals go back to wow. Thor buff and roach nerf. Time to bring back the proxy factory thor rush. THOR IS HERE! I feel bad for zerg too, tvz is too easy now..
CubE.
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada39 Posts
May 13 2010 18:57 GMT
#462
On May 14 2010 03:48 Synwave wrote:
I can only hope they are trying to define Ultras as the goto ground unit in late game, however nerfing the roach before doing anything to the ultra (other than lolmoardamage) seems highly weird.


The problem with this train of thought is even if the ultralisk is the go to unit late game it is a melee unit in a game of almost NO melee units. This means it has to run to the front lines (not to mention they are huge) and hope that the other race is having an aneurysm and forgets to focus fire the huge block running at you that is only effective with upgrades, if the ultralisk can get in range you then have to hope it can do SOMETHING before blowing up helplessly.

Not to mention no amount of ultralisk buff is going to make a difference in early-mid game when already the other races have an advantage on the roach (all races have + to armored but not zerg). The nerf just doesn't make sense.
TerriBad
Profile Joined December 2008
United States146 Posts
May 13 2010 18:57 GMT
#463
On May 14 2010 03:51 [Agony]x90 wrote:
It's nice to know that the ONLY thing that removes force field is a unit from the same race that comes at the opposite end of the tech tree. My 2v2 partner and I are looking to perma block some people into bases and see how that works lol. Anyways, I wonder if this change was for balance, or for buggy issues.


It was changed because you could previously vortex an army and then surround the vortex with forcefields causing the army to be completely clumped into a small area when the vortex ended.
MeruFM
Profile Joined February 2010
United States167 Posts
May 13 2010 18:57 GMT
#464
On May 14 2010 03:42 CubE. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 03:34 MeruFM wrote:
Maybe an infestor mind control range nerf.


Seriously? It is already an upgrade and it costs 100 energy which means you need 2 upgrades to make parasite viable. You really want to kick something while its down I see.



Yes because it can shut down all high tech instantly. Colossus, immortal, broodlord, and all the other high tier units that no one use like BC/ultra/carrier.
Not only that but it's not a waste to get even if the enemy doesn't have any high tech because fungal growth is so good against massed low tech as well.

But don't mind me, I'm just looking at it from all 3 sides. So maybe buff hydralisk hp/movement spd a bit OR BUFF THE ULTRALISK TO IUNNO LIKE 1000 HP OR SOMETHING.

Really the only imbalanced matchup I see is TvP. Terran has serious problems against everything protoss has unless they go super heavy on marauders.
sLiniss
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States849 Posts
May 13 2010 18:57 GMT
#465
I guess they don't want us to build any roaches either...

and thor buffs makes me QQ even more. I'm guessing infestors need to be even closer to NP them.
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
May 13 2010 18:57 GMT
#466
And from this day forward, Patch 12 will be remembered as the single most influential patch that contained only 1 significant change
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
FarbrorAbavna
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden4856 Posts
May 13 2010 18:58 GMT
#467
Holding my breath for a fast patch 13 where they figuered out the changes they wanna make to the ultra. Guess somewhere along the line they found out that only changing the ultra wasnt enough and they needed to rebalance the roach as well. Oh well....

(maybe they will do something about the marauder and immortal as well now, but that I aint holding my breath for )
Do you really want chat rooms?
Chriamon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States886 Posts
May 13 2010 18:58 GMT
#468
Nethaera wrote:
Roach - Supply count increased from 1 to 2.

Roaches are just too mighty to be a 1 supply unit. In 200 supply battles Roaches can be very difficult to deal with even with the correct counters in play by protoss or terran players.

As always, we appreciate the ongoing constructive feedback and will continue to closely monitor the effects of these changes within the game.


I don't get this. Roaches are too mighty to be a 1 supply unit. Then why is the solution to make them 2 supply? What about just make them less "mighty" as blizz says. And lol that they appreciate the constructive feedback. Appreciating feedback is just another way of them saying that they are aware of it, but the still don't care what the players actually think.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/274906/1/Blaze/
Piy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Scotland3152 Posts
May 13 2010 18:58 GMT
#469
Having to make 2 extra overlords early game isn't going to make it hellishly imbalanced...The only significant problem this patch provides is when Zerg has to deal with mass tank late game vs Terran.
My. Copy. Is. Here.
dangots0ul
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States919 Posts
May 13 2010 18:58 GMT
#470
thor better still be some what huge. arnold will not settle for less
i type teamliquid into the url subconsciously... all...the...time...
Slunk
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany768 Posts
May 13 2010 18:58 GMT
#471
So was the ladder also reset?
gankthoven
Profile Joined May 2010
16 Posts
May 13 2010 18:58 GMT
#472
at this rate why not just give us sc:bw zerg. get rid of the roach give use 1.5 hydra at 1 supply. tier 2 lurker aspect. buff the ultra and make him smaller/faster. it seems as of late the only way i win is if i speedling spine to tier 2. muta harass his eco and pump brood lords tier 3.
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
May 13 2010 18:59 GMT
#473
So I just downloaded "Patch 11" now, it also showed me the patch 11 patchnotes. I have new version files in my SC2B directory though...
And bnet is down.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
Chronopolis
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1484 Posts
May 13 2010 18:59 GMT
#474
Forge debuff (it's not a nerf, no one goes forge first in PvZ) is very welcome, as the forge rush previously was extremly difficult to defend. Compare gateway's build time of 55, to the forge's which was 35 (is now 45).

Thor
+ Radius decreased from 1.375 to 0.8125.
Thor model scale should be a good thing, but maybe they went a tad over board. That's like a 50% reduction, Terrans can now stuff more Thors in a given area, again making the terran ball most effecient at firing (The units are small and they have decent range).

Roach
+ Supply count increased from 1 to 2.
Not exactly sure how much of an impact this will have on zerg, but for sure, it will reduce the stregnth of the zerg's 200/200 army. Roaches are now supply whores, like zealots. As a biased protoss favour, I support this change, seeing as how a roach wins 1:1 against a zealot, and how cheap they are.
Also, this increase in supply will probably strengthen the protoss FE build in PvZ, as the protoss can get away with less cannons.


Bear4188
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1797 Posts
May 13 2010 18:59 GMT
#475
My guess is that the roach nerf is making way for a buff to the zergling/baneling/ultralisk lineup and a more balanced overall force for zerg, rather than than total range domination it currently is. Although I think at 2 supply roaches might need to be a little stronger, maybe their 2 armor back.
"I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something." - R. Feynman
Disastorm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States922 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 19:00:47
May 13 2010 18:59 GMT
#476
Hm game seems to be completely imbalanced now? T was supposed to be strongest before and now they are even stronger while P and Z have been nerfed.
"Don't worry so much man. There won't be any more zergs left to QQ. Lots of QQ about TvT is incoming though I bet." - Vrok 9/21/10
Tozar
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States245 Posts
May 13 2010 19:00 GMT
#477
I've been wondering since the beginning how roaches could possibly be only 1 supply. I've always thought it was ridiculous considering their HP. I for one am glad I will see less invincible carpets of roaches in PvZ.
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 19:00:46
May 13 2010 19:00 GMT
#478
just passed by the NSFW thread and saw this

NSFW:+ Show Spoiler +
mean while at blizzard HQ[image loading]
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
RogerChillingworth
Profile Joined March 2010
Chad3132 Posts
May 13 2010 19:00 GMT
#479
On May 14 2010 03:54 Logo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 03:52 Glider wrote:
On May 14 2010 03:43 TSL-Lore wrote:
Making the roach 2 food is completely the wrong direction and shows that Blizzard has pigeon-holed themselves into non-creative and un-fun changes with no regard for the flavor of the race. By making the roach 2 food, they're completely destroying the philosophy of "quantity over quality" that zerg users knew and fell in love with. The change is a lazy one.

Some people in this thread have voted to "increase the power of the roach to match its 2 psi requirement" but this is the wrong way about it as well. What kind of tier 1 zerg unit costs 2 food? It doesn't fit, damnit. the roach "vehicle design" was wrong to begin with. The entire point of the macro mechanics of the zerg race was to be able to produce weaker units, but at a much higher production rate than any other race. The hatchery/larvae injection mechanic is designed for this. The roach may or may not need a nerf, but the nerf should come in making the unit itself weaker and/or faster... not make it bulkier and cost more (that is the way of the protoss).

I hate this change, not because it is a nerf, but because it is not Zerg.


Pretty much agree with this. The identity of the race is gone. All race are very similar to each other now in terms of unit number. But as Justin B said, they didn't design the game from "let first look at the role of the races" point of view, they designed it from a "lets design some cool units and balance stuff out" approach. Which Personally i don't like but it is the way it is.



I'll third this as well. Even if roaches were too powerful per population, nerfing the population cost really loses a lot of the zerg flavor.


4th'd.

Zerg needs more 1 food units. I never liked the roach, but it was the only thing that could tank the [i]terrible, terrible damage[b]. And not even all that well due to clumping and splash. The bulky, acid spraying mechanic was stupid and never had a place in the zerg arsenal. I'd really like to see this unit scrapped and replaced.
CubE.
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada39 Posts
May 13 2010 19:00 GMT
#480
On May 14 2010 03:56 deo.deo wrote:
wow .. how a lot off people feel the need to exaggerate...

OMG CANT USE ROACHES ANYMORE..

OMG CAN FAST EXPAND WITH TOSS EVER AGAIN..

the game is pretty balanced and the mass roaches in late game was very hard to deal with,
only ignorant zerg player will argue otherwise.
Just play some games try new things and see how it will work out.


Mass roaches was hard to deal with? Who masses roaches late game they were used as a meat shield to help protect hydras. Mass roaches was easy to deal with its called marauders or immortals, and consequently enough marauders are good against just about everything.
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