EPTPatch 12 - Changes and Discussion - Page 21
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
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Zombee
Germany69 Posts
This is sort of a half patch. Blizz stated that they have an abillity patch for zerg prepared, but only releasing small chops of big changes, so that they can view the effect better. Even though I understand that, I do not agree with that - Roaches are really useless now, but maybe they get theire reggen and armor back. Terran: Terran are the strongest race by far. They are also the one that is the hardest to play (at least for me ^^). This buff is awesome - to me Terrans seem to be the most finished race yet. Every Unit has its role - a lot of MICRO possibilities as well as some awesome multitask challenges. Protoss: Really don't get the hp change on forges either -.- ; I think giving them back the arbiter instead of the mothership would be a great idea, or a reaver...to me they just seem stale right now (except of nony :D). | ||
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AtlasJQ
Canada138 Posts
The logic of any fix to Ultralisk being a fair compensation to this eludes me. A late game tier 3 unit cannot be considered any part of a strategy below 50 (or maybe even 80/100) supply. I would like to see an analysis done on the time required for Z/T/P to reach a given Tier 3 unit based on upgrades/building constructions. Getting to Ultras seems to require an absolutely massive investment of time with very limited compensation as to their rewards. One colossus can absolutely turn around a mid-game battle. Hell one siege tank can do the same. An Ultralisk just isnt going to be showing up in a zerg army of mid-game composition (hydra/roach/ling/bane). I love zerg as a race and the feel of it in SC2 but I fear they are either missing the boat on some things or perhaps just withholding some critical capabilities for the expansions. I hope they try to release vanilla SC2 the same as they did with vanilla SC as technically perfect/balanced as possible to allow all the truly innovative players to discover new and exciting ways to use the system they created. We've got another month (or so?) left to beta so I don't know how many patches we'll see before live but I sure hope it comes together. | ||
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TSL-Lore
United States412 Posts
Some people in this thread have voted to "increase the power of the roach to match its 2 psi requirement" but this is the wrong way about it as well. What kind of tier 1 zerg unit costs 2 food? It doesn't fit, damnit. the roach "vehicle design" was wrong to begin with. The entire point of the macro mechanics of the zerg race was to be able to produce weaker units, but at a much higher production rate than any other race. The hatchery/larvae injection mechanic is designed for this. The roach may or may not need a nerf, but the nerf should come in making the unit itself weaker and/or faster... not make it bulkier and cost more (that is the way of the protoss). I hate this change, not because it is a nerf, but because it is not Zerg. | ||
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kxr1der
United States213 Posts
On May 14 2010 02:55 Random() wrote: I don't get the Roach change. It has already lost everything that made it special (regen, armor) and now this. Yeah now its a hydra with no range and no AA. I really dont see the point of a roach now. | ||
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lew
Belgium205 Posts
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Wi)nD
Canada719 Posts
is it like cheap micro? | ||
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Onioncookie
Germany624 Posts
I think they are messin up all their race designs ... All Units exept Drones and Lings(blings) 2+ supply = Mass Units thing Broken? Marouders and Immos are kinda useless if their isnt going to be so much roaches running around | ||
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KiLL_ORdeR
United States1518 Posts
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The_Roist
United States58 Posts
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3104 Posts
What else is new. Ode to the Zerg community: Not only do we have one spellcaster to Protoss and Terran's 2-3 (with an ability called "infested terran" no less. Wootpies.), we are unable to approach metal Terran balls of the same food count (no dark swarm), get our tier 3 owned by tier 1.5 units and abilities that cost 25 energy, have a fatass, slow immobile tank (I shave twice before I can get this expensive, useless fatass. Oh, hold a sec, I don't get the fucking unit because it's terrible and costs as much as a colossus), have to macro harder and faster and secure more expansions than our opponents (even though with warp-in and cliff mechanics they're significantly harder to defend than in Brood War), have a nydus network mechanic that spits out a unit every annual rotation as opposed to in clumps (Brood War), have no units with a bonus to armored (as opposed to Terran and Protoss) but do have several units that are armored, get nerfed in every patch (I'll take the old neural parasite thanks: I really don't care about mind controlling air units. Oh and having to upgrade 2 things out of the infestation pit is buckets of good times. Don't worry, though, we don't absolutely need these units as quickly as possible in every match-up. Cool story cool beans)... ...but we gon' make dem roaches suck huge donkey balls. Cheers. Take your time with that balance. Oh, and buff Terran. It seems that because Terran isn't doing well it's a problem with the race and not that we're half a dicktip into beta and it [Terran] is probably the most complicated race of the three to learn. Wouldn't it be silly if we gave players time to actually get good with Terran before we buffed them in every patch? Now that the roach stench has expanded, can we for the love of God scrap this unit and replace it with something mildly creative? Keep fuckin that chicken. | ||
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Lollersauce
United States357 Posts
I mean really... Isn't the point of playing Zerg having MORE fragile units? Right now we have the fragile units (with the exception of the roach), but we really don't have more. | ||
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Auronz
Brazil119 Posts
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tenno
Germany20 Posts
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
On May 14 2010 03:17 teko wrote: Situation Report: Patch 12 (blue post) Our first Situation Report took a look at the changes with Patch 11 and while not a large patch, we wanted to continue sharing our insight on balance changes with Patch 12. Please keep in mind that we are continuing to keep a close eye on many of these changes to better gauge their effects and may not apply all of our planned changes into any one patch. This allows us to track the effects a bit better and layer in our planned changes to better set the pace of how they affect balance overall. We have a few minor changes implemented as a part of the balance for this patch and are also planning some more ability changes for the zerg in the next. Thor - Radius decreased from 1.375 to 0.8125. Model size reduced to match new radius. We have reduced the physical and pathing size of the Thor just to make him more useable. This will end up being a minor buff to the Thor (which he didn’t really need). We made the change just to make him less frustrating to use. We’ll be keeping a close eye on how this change plays out and if Thors become too dominant we will deal with them in other ways in future patches. Forge - Build time increased from 35 to 45. Life and shield values decreased from 550/550 to 400/400. We are seeing a Photon Cannon rush against protoss and zerg. Against protoss, players usually use a cliff edge or the enemy minerals in combination with their forge to protect their pylon. Against zerg, you can use the Forge and Pylon to block the zerg player’s ramp. We have a few numbers we can tweak to fix this, build time on the Forge being the most obvious. However if we make the build time too high it will be difficult to panic build a Forge and Cannons to block a badly played cloak attack. So we are going to try a mixture of health nerfs to the Forge and a small timing change. Mothership - Vortex now removes Force Fields within its area of effect. Vortex continues to be an exciting ability with some known issues. Limiting how Force Fields are used around Vortexes will help fix a few exploitable situations. Our thanks go to the community for continuing to find and report issues with it. =) Roach - Supply count increased from 1 to 2. Roaches are just too mighty to be a 1 supply unit. In 200 supply battles Roaches can be very difficult to deal with even with the correct counters in play by protoss or terran players. As always, we appreciate the ongoing constructive feedback and will continue to closely monitor the effects of these changes within the game. Source: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=24702406287&sid=5000 Thor Change: The radius change was sorta necessary I guess out of convenience. Forge Change: Blizzard got tired of the cheese. This does nothing but remove that early option off the table though you really don't even need to use that strat since there are other ways to make players GG early. Mothership change: This will be cool for late late game. Roach: I was over seeing mass roach months ago. Glad to see a high armor unit get the balance it needed for so long. | ||
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Sentient
United States437 Posts
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Bloodash
Netherlands1384 Posts
as terran never had any trouble with roaches tough, ah well :p | ||
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MrBlonde
United States11 Posts
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Wings
United States999 Posts
On the other hand, I'm glad they decreased Thor size, that thing was so big it was so problematic. I wonder why the Forge got so nerfed, lol. | ||
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Shaithis
United States383 Posts
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