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On May 14 2010 03:30 eth3real wrote:
How hard is it to understand that if you lose it's YOUR fault not the races'. There is no best or worst race. If you switch races because you have the mentality of "I want to win every time" and believe that your race is bad then this is the wrong game for you. Good bye.
User was temp banned for this post.
im laughing uncontrollably
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Forge nerf to nerf cannon rush where you build cannons and the forge inside the opponents base just because you know a forge wont ever die anyway, and it's an all in anyway.
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Hopefully this will add more emphasis on the aggressive nature that zerg used to have in SC:BW, before this patch it was just about staying alive and massing up a juicy roach/hydra army, now that they'll be able to only have half of those roaches, it can make for some interesting unit mixes as well as promote different playsyles.
Thumbs up
There is obviously still a "?" regarding zergs ability to defend themselves early game. Time will tell.
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On May 14 2010 03:03 InRaged wrote:
I think roach nerf has a lot to do with the fact that zerg at 200/200 can rebuild army much faster than terran/toss
Of course they can, that's the point of being a zerg.
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On May 14 2010 03:31 FestiveLemur wrote:
"Fans are clingy complaining dipshits who never ever be grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill, tremulous voices, the happier you will be for it"
-Zero Punctuation.
His name is Yathzee.
Anyone else have this image of the mods are just sitting back with a six pack and taking pot shots :p
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Wow Thors got a really huge reduction in size it seems. And I really like that. I just played a FFA an hour ago and went super mass mech. AND OH BOY, it feels so awkward running around with constantly colliding Thors >_____<
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i can't talk about high level play zerg play, because obviously i suck at this game, BUT why nerf roaches?
specially against protoss i feel my early zerg units are completly garbage now against early protoss units.
i can understand that blizzards needs to balance this game for a highlevel audience and with competitive play in mind, but does this really translate to 50% protoss and 30% terran players on the top spots in the lower leagues?
i feel that specially protoss is way too easy to play on a mediocre level.
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On May 14 2010 03:30 eth3real wrote:
How hard is it to understand that if you lose it's YOUR fault not the races'. There is no best or worst race. If you switch races because you have the mentality of "I want to win every time" and believe that your race is bad then this is the wrong game for you. Good bye.
User was temp banned for this post.
Goodbye indeed 
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If they roaches are going to be Terran's Marauder- Protoss' Stalker with 2 supply, lower their base damage and give extra damage to armored units...
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On May 14 2010 03:29 Yuma wrote:
All this Zerg rage is just wow!
ITS JUST ONE SUPPLY YOU GUYS! terran and Toss have been having to deal with this
And they have more units that are viable for more than a single tactic. Ow wait Z doesn't even have more than 3 tactics.
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On May 14 2010 02:54 MorroW wrote:
nobody is gonna build roaches late game.
This. It's impossible to get a decent sized army with those roaches. 200/200 protoss already beat several waves of 200/200 zerg before if the protoss had Colo/HT/Sentry and good micro. Now 200/200 zerg will be significantly weaker.
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Weird, where's the ultralisk buffs?
The roach nerf is pretty interesting as well. It just means they can't be spammed anymore. I think they'll still be great if you put them 1 to 1 with hydralisks.
It's hilarious that people are saying "omg, terran EASY RACE NAO" when it's apparent to anyone who play all 3 that it's probably the most difficult race to keep up. Terran isn't weak but it just seems to require much more micro to do anything if the enemy has banelings/colossus.
Still looking for a colossus nerf... anyone? Maybe an infestor mind control range nerf.
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United States7166 Posts
@morrow's mech vs zerg post: i think mass muta is definitely viable. if you keep mutas spread (it's not that hard if you just pay attention and never attack move from afar!) they rape thors no problem
i'm only somewhat concerned vs protoss
biggest issue for non roach play is force fields just makes it impossible for melee units to fight
hydras are glass cannons and his primarily ranged +colossi army melts
you can always run away from force fields but you take heavy losses once they have colossi and also eventually you do have to fight. best hope is just to get enough corruptors in time but i dont know if im going to like that matchup until melee is improved some vs forcefields
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thor being decreased in size will give the opponents a better opportunity(not to mention a bit easiert) to flank them or surround. atleast thats what I think ;p
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ok patch 12 came now and i think the roach change deserves a solo topic so here it is
ive been playing mech for the past weeks and once i hit about 150 psi with 20+ siege tanks and around 2-0 or 3-0 upgrades i feel like zerg already had a hard time winning in these battles.
i dont wanna brag here but with this push i was making with tank thors and hellions i had 4-0 vs dimaga 2-0 vs haypro and 3-0 vs naugrim and tons of other zerg users. (played about 40 tvz in patch 11 and won every single one where i didnt die of cheese early game, which was about 2 of them since cheesing is near impossible vs mech openers).
basically in lategame zergs could almost not rely on ground units in general because tanks would just obliterate everything on its way. roach were the only unit that actually allowed to reach in for an attack (speaking about ground units). zerglings along with baneling would die immidietly because of the massive and accurate splash dmg tanks had in patch 11 (and still do). nobody made ultras because the m250 cannon and mech in general is really good vs ultralisks. infestors would obviously suck too because the tanks range 13 could just snipe them like they were nothing at all.
zergs strongest weapon in lategame vs mech was broodlord because of their strong dmg and air ofc so it would make tanks useless. also thors were pretty weak against them. but since patch 11 broodlords have had alot less hp and vikings would actually be able to nullify all air because mutas would just die immediately as soon as in range of my thors.
i dont wanna say too much about how tvz will be (since i didnt try patch 12) but personally i feel like it will be absolutely impossible to lose in tvz if ur going my bo. it was already insane but now its just ridiculous.
roaches were really strong for a 1psi unit in lategame but 2 psi should pretty much make them useless. who will make roaches in late game? nobody i think, at least not in tvz...
im not saying we should bring back 1 psi to the roach, what im suggesting is that we add some kind of upgrade to them on hive tech to make them viable seeing how they suck up ur 200psi twice as fast now.
personally i would just feel it to be fair if they added some kind of adrenaline looking ability for roaches that can be upgraded in the roach warren once u reach hive. (hive needs more purpose too). about a +20% attack speed would probably enough
and to even add up on tvz mech late game thors got buffed ALOT by being smaller. this allows more terran units to attack at the same time and it allows less zerg units to attack my army potential-wise. it also adds more mobility and easier sim-city
anyhow what do u guys think of the roach now? was it a fair change?
its an awkward situation because its too strong for 1 psi and wayy too weak for 2 psi
what suggestions do u have?
maybe its just me but i think this was the biggest change in sc2 in quite a while but im just having too many 200 psi games on many bases. sure they cost a little but if u can not mass them in numbers u will never even reach the tank army, as i said before roach was the only unit with the ability to reach my mech army in lategame (exception of broodlord)
(Chill locked my thread for this and told me i had to post this here where nobody will care to read it. anyhow zergs have fun losing but remember if u read this that i was on ur side this time)
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On May 14 2010 03:29 PREWTAHS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 03:21 Lollersauce wrote:On May 14 2010 03:19 PREWTAHS wrote:
As it was, roach hydra was arguably too versatile and potentially too easy to execute.
waaa waaa waaa... you realize zerg has 9 combat units? exactly how much diversity do you expect? I don't know if adding more units at this stage would be ideal. I think it would be more interesting to tinker with the relationships of the zerg units to one another and how they fill their role in zerg play. I think other units should be potentially buffed or changed. I'd like to see more banelings, more cracklings, definitely more ultras. I think too many zergs were relying on hydra roach too much, and rightfully so. In many scenarios it is one of their strongest options. I just find it boring to watch and boring to play. When I think of Zerg, I think of mobility, low HP, high APM, huge numbers.
So launching a huge nerf on a race near release is okay, but adding another unit is not? Zerg is no unable to have huge numbers, you have HALVED the amount of a unit type zerg can have. The only way zerg can have huge numbers is if they mass lings and banelings and then you are screwed anyways.
On May 14 2010 03:29 Yuma wrote:
All this Zerg rage is just wow!
ITS JUST ONE SUPPLY YOU GUYS! terran and Toss have been having to deal with this
Toss and Terran also have more than 9 combat units, they also have production facilities separate from worker producing facilities. The races are not the same, roaches are now not cost effective and it really hurts early game. Losing an overlord early game for a zerg is often very destructive. This is in essence the same thing as no an extra overlord has to be built. It also means that in most fights the zerg will have HALF the amount of roaches. What other unit can zerg make?
On May 14 2010 03:31 JTPROG wrote:
Banelings: Explode damage is not done if the baneling is killed by the opposing player.
[/b]
I understand why you were temp banned for this post, if you cannot see why this makes no sense I feel for you.
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Blizzard's thought on forge nerf:
Forge - Build time increased from 35 to 45. Life and shield values decreased from 550/550 to 400/400.
We are seeing a Photon Cannon rush against protoss and zerg. Against protoss, players usually use a cliff edge or the enemy minerals in combination with their forge to protect their pylon. Against zerg, you can use the Forge and Pylon to block the zerg player’s ramp. We have a few numbers we can tweak to fix this, build time on the Forge being the most obvious. However if we make the build time too high it will be difficult to panic build a Forge and Cannons to block a badly played cloak attack. So we are going to try a mixture of health nerfs to the Forge and a small timing change.
My thoughts:
what the hell? I mean there was many cannon rushes in BW and it never been game breaking, we often saw those cannons going up behind mineral lines vs a Z fast expo and it just made the game more exciting, i don't understand this nerf thinking at all, it seems like blizzard is paying too much attention to copper/bronze league to nerf cannon rushes, and even in SC2 static defense is terrible compared to what it used to be in BW.
Blizzard's thought on Roach nerf:
Roach - Supply count increased from 1 to 2.
Roaches are just too mighty to be a 1 supply unit. In 200 supply battles Roaches can be very difficult to deal with even with the correct counters in play by protoss or terran players.
My thoughts:
Marauders? and i dunno about you, but usually when it's a 200 vs 200 battle in PvZ... you should have a good numbers of colossus which annihilate groups of roaches if properly controled. Overall, zergs are now going to find complete new strats because this patch nerf hits them hard.
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Useless Patch . Why did they nerf the roach even more ? Is it still imbalanced or with this does blizzard hope that zergs will use different units more and if it's the second that is bullshit on the highest level . If blizzard wants zerg users to use other units they should either buff the other units or remake them as a whole . Zerg already has less units and pretty uninteresting abilities compared to the other races's units abilities and nerfing them even more won't help . Players new to BW and SC2 will no way in hell get attracted to zerg with the way they are now . Not to mention that zerg's only spell caster is like a roller coaster in every patch and virtually nothing has changed . Blizzard should stop thinking what zerg unit should get nerfed or buffed next and start thinking making zerg's gameplay more attractive . I play only with zerg and i can't help to feel that the zerg race lost more from BW then they gained in SC 2 . I don't care if zerg is the strongest or the weakest race between the 3 races i only know that they are shallow compared to protoss and terran .
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If you look at the roach himself, 2 pop is ok. But I never saw a ZvP or ZvT battle@equal pop with roach that seemed imbalanced.
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Well Roaches probably needed a nerf, but this was the wrong one for Zerg as a race. If the race is about swarming, it shouldn't have just as many 2+ food units as each other race. I say drop Roaches back to one food and lower their HP to 125.
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EPT
