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Patch 12 - Changes and Discussion - Page 20

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
May 13 2010 18:37 GMT
#381
Hopefully zerg play will be more exciting now, even if it is a lot weaker than before. Roaches were just not very fun or exciting units, unless you got two lair level upgrades and used their burrow movement extensively.
Artisan
Profile Joined February 2010
United States336 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 18:37:51
May 13 2010 18:37 GMT
#382
I would like to see overlords give 10 supply so it doesn't seem so brutal getting supply capped. Zerg units now costs roughly the same supply as terran and protoss units why not give them the same benefit for the 100 minerals invested.
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
May 13 2010 18:38 GMT
#383
they REALLY shoudl have added the ultra buffs the same patch they nerf roach like this :/
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
ryanAnger
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States838 Posts
May 13 2010 18:38 GMT
#384
So. The one thing keeping Zerg alive in ZvP and ZvT got nerfed significantly, but nothing else got buffed. I'm sorry, I'm sick of you fucking me and all the other Zergs in the ass Blizzard.
On my way...
Railxp
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Hong Kong1313 Posts
May 13 2010 18:38 GMT
#385
it wouldnt be so bad if they brought back regeneration for roaches, so you can have better army retention for such food heavy-tank units.
~\(。◕‿‿◕。)/~,,,,,,,,>
PREWTAHS
Profile Joined March 2010
Armenia24 Posts
May 13 2010 18:38 GMT
#386
On May 14 2010 03:32 Lollersauce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 03:29 PREWTAHS wrote:
On May 14 2010 03:21 Lollersauce wrote:
On May 14 2010 03:19 PREWTAHS wrote:
As it was, roach hydra was arguably too versatile and potentially too easy to execute.


waaa waaa waaa...
you realize zerg has 9 combat units? exactly how much diversity do you expect?


When I think of Zerg, I think of mobility, low HP, high APM, huge numbers.


Go tell that to all our 2+ supply units except for the zergling.


I'll ponder it. They don't seem like the receptive type though.
SaetZero
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States855 Posts
May 13 2010 18:39 GMT
#387
@Roach nerf:

Nerf them in some other way; I want 1 food back.

I see this being a large issue if protoss gets some wicked fast +1 zealot based push going. Or marine heavy shit. I agree the 2 food cost thing will help the late game, but what about early game?

I know I have hit food cap with like... 4 roaches? when doing a FE. How can I block a hellion harass with 2 roaches? Less drones?

Man this change is gonna suck...

Guess I need to practice ling heavy ZvZ now too.

Or maybe I'll just play my shitty Terran builds for a while. ><
Never Forget. #TheRevolutionist
Darkong
Profile Joined February 2010
United Kingdom418 Posts
May 13 2010 18:39 GMT
#388
* Fixed a crash which sometimes occurred when quitting the program.

Glad they're fixing this because, for me at least, it doesn't happen 'sometimes' it happens every time, its really irritating. Have to say, I'm a little worried about how the new smaller thors will look, but if it helps the game improve then I guess its all good.
Trolling the Battle.Net forums, the most fun you can have with your pants on.
Uhh Negative
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1090 Posts
May 13 2010 18:39 GMT
#389
Roaches have went from being way overpowered to being just a unit to hold off your opponent until you get T2.
beetlelisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Poland2276 Posts
May 13 2010 18:40 GMT
#390
I'm reaching nerdgasm with every ban :D

@ MorroW
I wonder if anyone burrowed Roaches at all in the late game till now.
wwww
santoki
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States107 Posts
May 13 2010 18:40 GMT
#391
did you know if you dont kite, zealots>roach 1v1? roaches need spawningpool+warren, and cost precious gas T^T
Gont
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany239 Posts
May 13 2010 18:40 GMT
#392
i am still wondering why people thought roaches were overpowered...with the armor nerf roaches were strong but i have not won a single game with mass roaches since the armor nerf...i.e. zeats are so good against roaches even in patch 11 with some forcefields so u cant kite the zeats...

i suggest to finally swap roaches with hydras and to buff/nerf them so they fit into their tier...also u finally would have an aa unit at t1

T0fuuu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia2275 Posts
May 13 2010 18:40 GMT
#393
this will be an interesting patch to play !

Hopefully zerg gets a better T3 in another patch to make up for this (:
Lollersauce
Profile Joined April 2010
United States357 Posts
May 13 2010 18:41 GMT
#394
No amount of ultra buffs is going to help zerg against a terran mech push...
HalfAmazing
Profile Joined May 2008
Netherlands402 Posts
May 13 2010 18:41 GMT
#395
Silly patch. Blizzard simply does not get it. Quite sad, really.
You can figure out the other half.
FlyingDJ
Profile Joined April 2008
Germany153 Posts
May 13 2010 18:41 GMT
#396
Did someone already post Blizzard's explanation? If not:

+ Show Spoiler +
Our first Situation Report took a look at the changes with Patch 11 and while not a large patch, we wanted to continue sharing our insight on balance changes with Patch 12. Please keep in mind that we are continuing to keep a close eye on many of these changes to better gauge their effects and may not apply all of our planned changes into any one patch. This allows us to track the effects a bit better and layer in our planned changes to better set the pace of how they affect balance overall.

We have a few minor changes implemented as a part of the balance for this patch and are also planning some more ability changes for the zerg in the next.

Thor - Radius decreased from 1.375 to 0.8125. Model size reduced to match new radius.

We have reduced the physical and pathing size of the Thor just to make him more useable. This will end up being a minor buff to the Thor (which he didn’t really need). We made the change just to make him less frustrating to use. We’ll be keeping a close eye on how this change plays out and if Thors become too dominant we will deal with them in other ways in future patches.

Forge - Build time increased from 35 to 45. Life and shield values decreased from 550/550 to 400/400.

We are seeing a Photon Cannon rush against protoss and zerg. Against protoss, players usually use a cliff edge or the enemy minerals in combination with their forge to protect their pylon. Against zerg, you can use the Forge and Pylon to block the zerg player’s ramp. We have a few numbers we can tweak to fix this, build time on the Forge being the most obvious. However if we make the build time too high it will be difficult to panic build a Forge and Cannons to block a badly played cloak attack. So we are going to try a mixture of health nerfs to the Forge and a small timing change.

Mothership - Vortex now removes Force Fields within its area of effect.

Vortex continues to be an exciting ability with some known issues. Limiting how Force Fields are used around Vortexes will help fix a few exploitable situations. Our thanks go to the community for continuing to find and report issues with it. =)

Roach - Supply count increased from 1 to 2.

Roaches are just too mighty to be a 1 supply unit. In 200 supply battles Roaches can be very difficult to deal with even with the correct counters in play by protoss or terran players.

As always, we appreciate the ongoing constructive feedback and will continue to closely monitor the effects of these changes within the game.
getSome[703]
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States753 Posts
May 13 2010 18:41 GMT
#397
Here is Blizzard's discussion of Patch 12. Could a mod edit it into an OP? I'm assuming it's better to post here than make a separate topic about it since the roach discussion one was closed. I think the biggest thing to note is that the forge was nerfed because of cannon rushes in PvP and PvZ.... I mean really -_- Taking away diverse PvZ play because of lower level players.

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=24702406287&sid=5000

Our first Situation Report took a look at the changes with Patch 11 and while not a large patch, we wanted to continue sharing our insight on balance changes with Patch 12. Please keep in mind that we are continuing to keep a close eye on many of these changes to better gauge their effects and may not apply all of our planned changes into any one patch. This allows us to track the effects a bit better and layer in our planned changes to better set the pace of how they affect balance overall.

We have a few minor changes implemented as a part of the balance for this patch and are also planning some more ability changes for the zerg in the next.

Thor - Radius decreased from 1.375 to 0.8125. Model size reduced to match new radius.

We have reduced the physical and pathing size of the Thor just to make him more useable. This will end up being a minor buff to the Thor (which he didn’t really need). We made the change just to make him less frustrating to use. We’ll be keeping a close eye on how this change plays out and if Thors become too dominant we will deal with them in other ways in future patches.

Forge - Build time increased from 35 to 45. Life and shield values decreased from 550/550 to 400/400.

We are seeing a Photon Cannon rush against protoss and zerg. Against protoss, players usually use a cliff edge or the enemy minerals in combination with their forge to protect their pylon. Against zerg, you can use the Forge and Pylon to block the zerg player’s ramp. We have a few numbers we can tweak to fix this, build time on the Forge being the most obvious. However if we make the build time too high it will be difficult to panic build a Forge and Cannons to block a badly played cloak attack. So we are going to try a mixture of health nerfs to the Forge and a small timing change.

Mothership - Vortex now removes Force Fields within its area of effect.

Vortex continues to be an exciting ability with some known issues. Limiting how Force Fields are used around Vortexes will help fix a few exploitable situations. Our thanks go to the community for continuing to find and report issues with it. =)

Roach - Supply count increased from 1 to 2.

Roaches are just too mighty to be a 1 supply unit. In 200 supply battles Roaches can be very difficult to deal with even with the correct counters in play by protoss or terran players.

As always, we appreciate the ongoing constructive feedback and will continue to closely monitor the effects of these changes within the game.
Running Log! http://www.runningahead.com/logs/5081b4d7a4a94c5e8fa20b01e668dfb6/calendar
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
May 13 2010 18:41 GMT
#398
On May 14 2010 03:36 YunhOLee wrote:

My thoughts:
what the hell? I mean there was many cannon rushes in BW and it never been game breaking, we often saw those cannons going up behind mineral lines vs a Z fast expo and it just made the game more exciting, i don't understand this nerf thinking at all, it seems like blizzard is paying too much attention to copper/bronze league to nerf cannon rushes, and even in SC2 static defense is terrible compared to what it used to be in BW.

I'm pretty sure there is a chinese pvz rush that artosis said was ridiculously strong in the upper reaches of plat. This change was probably designed to combat this before it migrated elsewhere.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
MeruFM
Profile Joined February 2010
United States167 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 18:43:21
May 13 2010 18:41 GMT
#399
On May 14 2010 03:36 MorroW wrote:
Show nested quote +
...


Have people tried burrow moving to your tanks? Or do you make ravens as well? I know it's almost impossible for terran to really do anything about burrowed roaches when they're moving around not protected by turret sight.
CubE.
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada39 Posts
May 13 2010 18:42 GMT
#400
On May 14 2010 03:34 MeruFM wrote:
Maybe an infestor mind control range nerf.


Seriously? It is already an upgrade and it costs 100 energy which means you need 2 upgrades to make parasite viable. You really want to kick something while its down I see.



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