• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:24
CEST 12:24
KST 19:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 225ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon315.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes38Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch5[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)99
StarCraft 2
General
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? ZOWIE DIVINA preview Server Blocker StarCraft Mass Recall: SC1 campaigns on SC2 thread
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10 Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 533 Die Together The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery
Brood War
General
Snow On New ASL S22 Map, Zerg Nerf Farewell Beloved Starcraft (Youtube Videos) ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
CSLAN 4 is Coming! Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 The Casual Games of the Week Thread [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Summer Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4774 users

Patch 12 - Changes and Discussion - Page 15

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 13 14 15 16 17 79 Next
Crisium
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1618 Posts
May 13 2010 18:18 GMT
#281
My idea for Roach (coming from a Terran player):

When you upgrade to Lair Tech, it automatically increased the Roach supply requirement from 1 to 2. This would be unavoidable and permanent once Lair was build one time (even if Lair was eventually destroyed). Ta da! Roaches late game are 2 Supply and the 200 Supply Zerg army is not too strong, and early game Roach play is still just as viable as pre-patch 12.
Broodwar and Stork forever! List of BW players with most Ro16, Ro8: http://tinyurl.com/BWRo16-Ro8
TakeUrChance
Profile Joined May 2010
Brazil1 Post
May 13 2010 18:18 GMT
#282
hahahaha now it will be nice, ill just mario kart(hellion) zerg expo and main, without having those 3 roachs ( 2 on ramp , 1 at expo) .... thx blizz.... easy mode
beetlelisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Poland2276 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 18:19:22
May 13 2010 18:18 GMT
#283
I've never been against unholy trinity (at least not as much as most of people here) but fuck you hard counters ^__^ 1st Immortal now Roach, I love this! More spohisticated unit mixes please, now.
wwww
pshych0
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
274 Posts
May 13 2010 18:18 GMT
#284
poor zerg
shit happens
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 18:19:57
May 13 2010 18:19 GMT
#285
On May 14 2010 03:13 HeyheyLBJ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 03:10 Jyvblamo wrote:
On May 14 2010 03:08 billyX333 wrote:
Roaches are just too mighty to be a 1 supply unit. In 200 supply battles Roaches can be very difficult to deal with even with the correct counters in play by protoss or terran players.


blizzard is balancing the game for players who encounter 200/200 supply roaches
thank you, this was a huge issue
bw's hydralisk was 1 supply, i'd much rather mass bw hydraling than sc2 roachling (esp. now)
T_T!

Being able to flood with ~50 roaches after a huge late game battle was actually a big issue in high level play.


And is not solved with this change cause by then you have already enough overlords to support that after your army has died.

Why can't the roach has a role it's good at? Every other unit is allowed to, but not the roach for some reason?


Wait what? The damn things have AMAZING health for their cost, are awesome tanks and tear up Marines and Zealots like nuts. What are you smoking?

I will laugh my ass off if Zerg start building full Zergling/Hydra armies and expect their army to live more than 2 seconds.
KinosJourney2
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden1811 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 18:21:14
May 13 2010 18:19 GMT
#286
This is such a kick in the face on Zerg, huge nerf on Roaches. Not needed at all IMO

Also, forge nerf?! WHAT THE EFF??

Worst patch so far, and i was pretty positive about the patches so far.
ocho wrote: EDIT: NEVERMIND, THIS THING HAS APM TECHNOLOGY OMG
Knap4life
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Slovenia333 Posts
May 13 2010 18:19 GMT
#287
Well it sure will be interesting to play zerg now , i play random so phew.
PREWTAHS
Profile Joined March 2010
Armenia24 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 18:19:44
May 13 2010 18:19 GMT
#288
Lots of absolute judgments and melodramatics up in here! It's entirely possible Blizzard intends to redefine the role of the roach because of upcoming changes they'll be making to other zerg units.

As it was, roach hydra was arguably too versatile and potentially too easy to execute. I think it's great blizzard is still trying to find ways to diversify the zerg army. I think they have a long way to go, and I'd also like to see less marauders and slightly less void rays. It's pretty clear Blizz is balancing the game so there are as many "viable" (dislike that term) tech paths as possible, which will hopefully make for a multitude of variety in unit composition and timings.

I do hope the balance patches slow down in frequency after release though. I really don't think Blizzard has given players enough time between patches to warrant many of their balance changes with some rare exceptions (i.e. PVP proxy warpgate). I'd like to have the same patch for a good 6 months or so, just to see all of the crazy and innovative play that players are forced into due to alleged imbalances.
finalboss
Profile Joined May 2010
United States39 Posts
May 13 2010 18:19 GMT
#289
On May 14 2010 03:17 xajten wrote:
Quite a big hit to Zerg. :S

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]



you have officially killed the meme. the lack of funny and the fact that you have been probably waiting for a long time to use it have lead to its death.
Prixm
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden145 Posts
May 13 2010 18:19 GMT
#290
This is gay. Seriosuly, what did blizz think whit. Get Marauders and Reapers to 4 Supply then.. Thats about the same nerf that Zerg just got, so ridicoulous.

User was temp banned for this post.
Mr.Pyro
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Denmark959 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 18:20:00
May 13 2010 18:19 GMT
#291
On May 14 2010 03:11 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2010 03:05 Zelniq wrote:
i'm confident the reason why there's almost no other changes to the game is just to see exactly how this single change effects the entire game..because they understand the gravity of it

tbh, as a zerg player, i'm pleased with this change. people became a little too dependent on roaches, this is the single best change to 'diversify zerg' that i can see.

however some changes to other units are probably in order, melee vs force field is a major issue for one, ultralisks are obviously another, etc

Yes, this is probably true, but it's just so un-zerg for all their units to cost 2 supply (hydra and roach) =/


Well, Zerg being about swaming was dead since SC2 [beta] release, all their units are so expensive, and are as powerful as their expense.

Just bring Hydra back to being a cheap massable unit resulting in huge fuckin' armies again, i miss the huge hydra armies :p
P⊧[1]<a>[2]<a>[3]<a>tt | P ≝ 1.a.2.a.3.a.P
selboN
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States2523 Posts
May 13 2010 18:20 GMT
#292
Zerg has been nerfed every patch, yet they are still always competitive. I didn't understand why roaches were not 2 supply to start with. No one could be surprised by this change, bias aside.
"That's what happens when you're using a mouse made out of glass!" -Tasteless (Referring to ZergBong)
roemy
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany432 Posts
May 13 2010 18:20 GMT
#293
Thor now slightly smaller than a siege tank/queen and slightly larger than an immortal...

biggest ground units are now archon (*sigh*) , colossus and ultralisk with 1.00 unit radius

does not compute...
rock is fine.. paper could need a buff, but scissors have to be nerfed
Lollersauce
Profile Joined April 2010
United States357 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-13 18:21:39
May 13 2010 18:21 GMT
#294
On May 14 2010 03:19 PREWTAHS wrote:
As it was, roach hydra was arguably too versatile and potentially too easy to execute.


waaa waaa waaa...
you realize zerg has 9 combat units? exactly how much diversity do you expect?
CheAse
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada919 Posts
May 13 2010 18:21 GMT
#295
I wonder if these changes will bring back mass zerglings into zvz
SCV good to go sir
kefka0
Profile Joined December 2008
United States10 Posts
May 13 2010 18:21 GMT
#296
On May 14 2010 03:16 somedumbgamer wrote:
The roach nerf is pretty bad, I think. It's not that it'll "just cost 100 more minerals" to make more roaches.


How does this make sense?

They didn't change the production cost. You are right about overlords, though.
ggrrg
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Bulgaria2716 Posts
May 13 2010 18:21 GMT
#297
Even as a toss player I feel that zerg got screwed badly with the new roach nerf.
Forge slightly nerfed, but I couldn't care less.
Thor slightly buffed I guess, but I don't see a problem with that. It actually seems to be good.
I have built a mothership excatly once so far...
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
May 13 2010 18:21 GMT
#298
I just remembered from watching artosis' stream that chinese tosses were all doing a cannon rush against zerg, so the forge weakening must be a reaction to that.

@ The roach late game. There is a good chance this is phase 2 of blizzards "hey lets make the ultra good again" plan. Remove the possibility to go another unit because of the supply cap, so players go ultra, then fill the rest in with lings. Just a thought thou.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
ymirheim
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden300 Posts
May 13 2010 18:22 GMT
#299
Do note that the change in thor size also means that fewer scv's can repair it at the same time so while the thor change is a mobility buff to terran, it is also a slight nerf to any kind of thor rush.
The only thing you should feel when you shoot someone... is the recoil
KinosJourney2
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden1811 Posts
May 13 2010 18:22 GMT
#300
On May 14 2010 03:20 roemy wrote:
Thor now slightly smaller than a siege tank/queen and slightly larger than an immortal...

biggest ground units are now archon (*sigh*) , colossus and ultralisk with 1.00 unit radius

does not compute...


Soon the thor will be the new goliath, with AoE air-attack
ocho wrote: EDIT: NEVERMIND, THIS THING HAS APM TECHNOLOGY OMG
Prev 1 13 14 15 16 17 79 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 36m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 210
SHIN 56
Ryung 33
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 2537
Jaedong 610
Larva 575
Horang2 517
BeSt 305
Zeus 263
firebathero 244
Soulkey 232
actioN 207
Soma 168
[ Show more ]
Rush 125
Light 108
Pusan 86
Killer 84
ZerO 73
Mind 57
Free 48
ToSsGirL 48
Aegong 44
sorry 42
soO 42
Sharp 35
scan(afreeca) 32
hero 29
910 28
GoRush 26
[sc1f]eonzerg 19
ZergMaN 18
Bale 16
Yoon 9
Noble 8
Dota 2
XaKoH 699
League of Legends
JimRising 434
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1656
Other Games
ceh9835
Pyrionflax228
ZerO(Twitch)14
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick22457
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV429
Other Games
BasetradeTV212
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream78
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 61
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota281
League of Legends
• Jankos3480
• Stunt497
Upcoming Events
GSL
36m
Replay Cast
13h 36m
WardiTV Weekly
1d
PiGosaur Cup
1d 13h
The PondCast
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Snow vs Jaedong
YSC vs hero
RSL Revival
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
SCTL 2026 Spring
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W2
ASL Season 22:Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
Heroes Pulsing #3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.