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On May 14 2010 00:36 Archerofaiur wrote:Could give spore crawlers AoE attack if you needed some way for Zerg to fend off stacked mutas.
Or you just use Fungal-Growth, which will completely rape Stacked Mutas.
I think Zerg has enough opportunities with Fungal growth, besides, it's a mirrormatch, so they could just go massmutas as well if it was that imba.
I also think Protoss has good counters with Storm and Archons, but Terran could have a Problem if you'd have to go Thors, just because it should be possible to not go mech and still defend against Mass-Mutas, so you'd have to maybe either give Viking AoE (and if you change the control-scheme for them too, you'd anyways had to change maybe the range or sth.) or make the HSM more useful against the Fast Mutas which will fly away from the HSM like nobody's business. ^^'
On May 14 2010 00:40 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 00:35 kickinhead wrote:On May 13 2010 23:56 Archerofaiur wrote:And I dont even know what to say to people saying noobs shouldnt even be consider when designing a game  You took that the wrong way, what I meant with this is you shouldn't make a game easier to master because you're afraid that noobs won't play it. I mean: Noobs will play the campaign-mode, which will not be affected by the changes suggested in this thread. Then, they'll maybe start playing online, but with the auto-matchmaking, they'll just play against ppl that play on the same level, so you don't need to master the whole game before you can have fun. Give me a reason why having a graded system of micro difficulty (meaning easier micro tasks like phoenix attack move and harder micro tasks like muta micro) is a bad thing. "Noobs will play the campaign" Yes and then hopefully they will begin learning multiplayer. The whole idea is to have a gradual progression to draw fans in and encourage them to continually improve their game. Dont forget, everyone of us here was once a noob.
I don't really get what you mean: You wan't Phoenix to be easier to control and Mutas to be harder, so you'd have to choose your race based on how micro-intensiv you want to play to effectively use your Units?
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On May 14 2010 00:36 Archerofaiur wrote:Could give spore crawlers AoE attack if you needed some way for Zerg to fend off stacked mutas.
Or fungal growth?
edit. Crap, ninja'd
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On May 14 2010 00:40 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 00:35 kickinhead wrote:On May 13 2010 23:56 Archerofaiur wrote:And I dont even know what to say to people saying noobs shouldnt even be consider when designing a game You took that the wrong way, what I meant with this is you shouldn't make a game easier to master because you're afraid that noobs won't play it. I mean: Noobs will play the campaign-mode, which will not be affected by the changes suggested in this thread. Then, they'll maybe start playing online, but with the auto-matchmaking, they'll just play against ppl that play on the same level, so you don't need to master the whole game before you can have fun. Give me a reason why having a graded system of micro difficulty (meaning easier micro tasks like phoenix attack move and harder micro tasks like muta micro) is a bad thing.
You think having an average protoss player able to combat an amazing zerg player just because the phoenix is relatively easy to use while the muta requires vast amounts of talent is fair?
If theres a way to make a unit infinitely better by making it harder to use, then it needs to be that way. Theres a reason why SC1 has gone on for over 10 years and why CnC needs to keep making sequels every year.
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really good, hopefully blizzard takes some of your ideas
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On May 14 2010 00:44 Mania[K]al wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 00:40 Archerofaiur wrote:On May 14 2010 00:35 kickinhead wrote:On May 13 2010 23:56 Archerofaiur wrote:And I dont even know what to say to people saying noobs shouldnt even be consider when designing a game You took that the wrong way, what I meant with this is you shouldn't make a game easier to master because you're afraid that noobs won't play it. I mean: Noobs will play the campaign-mode, which will not be affected by the changes suggested in this thread. Then, they'll maybe start playing online, but with the auto-matchmaking, they'll just play against ppl that play on the same level, so you don't need to master the whole game before you can have fun. Give me a reason why having a graded system of micro difficulty (meaning easier micro tasks like phoenix attack move and harder micro tasks like muta micro) is a bad thing. You think having an average protoss player able to combat an amazing zerg player just because the phoenix is relatively easy to use while the muta requires vast amounts of talent is fair? If theres a way to make a unit infinitely better by making it harder to use, then it needs to be that way. Theres a reason why SC1 has gone on for over 10 years and why CnC needs to keep making sequels every year.
I totally agree, if those changes would be implemented, you'd have to go the whole way and change the other Units in the same manner as well, so also stuff like Vikings, Phoenix etc.
Even now there are enough ppl now that are saying Protoss is already "the easy race"...
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On May 14 2010 00:44 Mania[K]al wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 00:40 Archerofaiur wrote:On May 14 2010 00:35 kickinhead wrote:On May 13 2010 23:56 Archerofaiur wrote:And I dont even know what to say to people saying noobs shouldnt even be consider when designing a game You took that the wrong way, what I meant with this is you shouldn't make a game easier to master because you're afraid that noobs won't play it. I mean: Noobs will play the campaign-mode, which will not be affected by the changes suggested in this thread. Then, they'll maybe start playing online, but with the auto-matchmaking, they'll just play against ppl that play on the same level, so you don't need to master the whole game before you can have fun. Give me a reason why having a graded system of micro difficulty (meaning easier micro tasks like phoenix attack move and harder micro tasks like muta micro) is a bad thing. You think having an average protoss player able to combat an amazing zerg player just because the phoenix is relatively easy to use while the muta requires vast amounts of talent is fair?
No the idea should be that power would be tied to difficulty. Personally I would like to see how the OP's muta micro stacks up against patch 11 phoenix micro.
On May 14 2010 00:40 kickinhead wrote:
I don't really get what you mean: You wan't Phoenix to be easier to control and Mutas to be harder, so you'd have to choose your race based on how micro-intensiv you want to play to effectively use your Units?
I thought Protoss were supposed to be the easy race :p
No just kidding. I think Protoss should have easy micro options and hard micro options. And zerg should have hard micro options. And in some cases hard micro should counter easy micro. So to use this example the numbers could (i believe) be balanced where zerg has the advantage in PvZ if they use their hard micro with enough skill.
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On May 14 2010 00:46 kickinhead wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 00:44 Mania[K]al wrote:On May 14 2010 00:40 Archerofaiur wrote:On May 14 2010 00:35 kickinhead wrote:On May 13 2010 23:56 Archerofaiur wrote:And I dont even know what to say to people saying noobs shouldnt even be consider when designing a game You took that the wrong way, what I meant with this is you shouldn't make a game easier to master because you're afraid that noobs won't play it. I mean: Noobs will play the campaign-mode, which will not be affected by the changes suggested in this thread. Then, they'll maybe start playing online, but with the auto-matchmaking, they'll just play against ppl that play on the same level, so you don't need to master the whole game before you can have fun. Give me a reason why having a graded system of micro difficulty (meaning easier micro tasks like phoenix attack move and harder micro tasks like muta micro) is a bad thing. You think having an average protoss player able to combat an amazing zerg player just because the phoenix is relatively easy to use while the muta requires vast amounts of talent is fair? If theres a way to make a unit infinitely better by making it harder to use, then it needs to be that way. Theres a reason why SC1 has gone on for over 10 years and why CnC needs to keep making sequels every year. I totally agree, if those changes would be implemented, you'd have to go the whole way and change the other Units in the same manner as well, so also stuff like Vikings, Phoenix etc. Even now there are enough ppl now that are saying Protoss is already "the easy race"...
Im not gonna get into which race i think is the easiest, but i hope that if Blizzard is to ignore the people that have played their game for the past 10 years and keep the game the way it is, then people like the OP can at least make an UMS map 
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On May 14 2010 00:46 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 00:44 Mania[K]al wrote:On May 14 2010 00:40 Archerofaiur wrote:On May 14 2010 00:35 kickinhead wrote:On May 13 2010 23:56 Archerofaiur wrote:And I dont even know what to say to people saying noobs shouldnt even be consider when designing a game You took that the wrong way, what I meant with this is you shouldn't make a game easier to master because you're afraid that noobs won't play it. I mean: Noobs will play the campaign-mode, which will not be affected by the changes suggested in this thread. Then, they'll maybe start playing online, but with the auto-matchmaking, they'll just play against ppl that play on the same level, so you don't need to master the whole game before you can have fun. Give me a reason why having a graded system of micro difficulty (meaning easier micro tasks like phoenix attack move and harder micro tasks like muta micro) is a bad thing. You think having an average protoss player able to combat an amazing zerg player just because the phoenix is relatively easy to use while the muta requires vast amounts of talent is fair? No the idea should be that power would be tied to difficulty. Personally I would like to see how the OP's muta micro stacks up against patch 11 phoenix micro.
Well since the Phoenix is faster and outranges the muta id imagine it would look kinda like Marine vs Muta in SC1 with the Muta trying to bait the Phoenix into making a wrong turn and taking a hit. Sounds fun at the least.
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EDIT: MISREAD YOUR POST LOL!
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Oh shoot... clicked quote instead of edit once again...
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Actually now that I think about it it might make more sence for thors to lose the AoE and give ti to turrets. This would give Terran a counter even if they dont go mech. Also, Ive kinda been missing the build turrets out in the field from SC1.
LIke i said all this stuff needs to be tested though. SS do you want us to put together a list of potential playtesters?
On May 14 2010 00:50 Mania[K]al wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 00:46 Archerofaiur wrote:On May 14 2010 00:44 Mania[K]al wrote:On May 14 2010 00:40 Archerofaiur wrote:On May 14 2010 00:35 kickinhead wrote:On May 13 2010 23:56 Archerofaiur wrote:And I dont even know what to say to people saying noobs shouldnt even be consider when designing a game You took that the wrong way, what I meant with this is you shouldn't make a game easier to master because you're afraid that noobs won't play it. I mean: Noobs will play the campaign-mode, which will not be affected by the changes suggested in this thread. Then, they'll maybe start playing online, but with the auto-matchmaking, they'll just play against ppl that play on the same level, so you don't need to master the whole game before you can have fun. Give me a reason why having a graded system of micro difficulty (meaning easier micro tasks like phoenix attack move and harder micro tasks like muta micro) is a bad thing. You think having an average protoss player able to combat an amazing zerg player just because the phoenix is relatively easy to use while the muta requires vast amounts of talent is fair? No the idea should be that power would be tied to difficulty. Personally I would like to see how the OP's muta micro stacks up against patch 11 phoenix micro. Well since the Phoenix is faster and outranges the muta id imagine it would look kinda like Marine vs Muta in SC1 with the Muta trying to bait the Phoenix into making a wrong turn and taking a hit. Sounds fun at the least.
See? It may be that the phoenix's "easy" micro perfectly compliments SS's new muta micro. It kinda reminds me of scourge chasing funnily enough.
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On May 14 2010 00:44 Mania[K]al wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 00:40 Archerofaiur wrote:On May 14 2010 00:35 kickinhead wrote:On May 13 2010 23:56 Archerofaiur wrote:And I dont even know what to say to people saying noobs shouldnt even be consider when designing a game You took that the wrong way, what I meant with this is you shouldn't make a game easier to master because you're afraid that noobs won't play it. I mean: Noobs will play the campaign-mode, which will not be affected by the changes suggested in this thread. Then, they'll maybe start playing online, but with the auto-matchmaking, they'll just play against ppl that play on the same level, so you don't need to master the whole game before you can have fun. Give me a reason why having a graded system of micro difficulty (meaning easier micro tasks like phoenix attack move and harder micro tasks like muta micro) is a bad thing. You think having an average protoss player able to combat an amazing zerg player just because the phoenix is relatively easy to use while the muta requires vast amounts of talent is fair?
Dude phoenix would be infinitely easier if it had splash like corsairs instead of this 1 more range so try to dance with bnet lag trickery.. Just a move and done..
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On May 14 2010 00:52 Archerofaiur wrote:
LIke i said all this stuff needs to be tested though. SS do you want us to put together a list of potential playtesters?
Yes please, save me from the embarrassment lol. Nah that would be awesome, we would have to see what difference it makes between ratings as well i guess. Thanks.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
sorry i haven't really read through the thread and dont really follow sc2 either, but did i just see mutalisks shoot ilke glowing blue projectiles
the 0 delay or w/e seems nice though, hehe
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On May 14 2010 01:02 alffla wrote:sorry i haven't really read through the thread and dont really follow sc2 either, but did i just see mutalisks shoot ilke glowing blue projectiles the 0 delay or w/e seems nice though, hehe
OP just made the glaives glow for demonstration purposes.
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The worst part about all of this is that none of it will be implemented. The Phoenix change was only brought in because Protoss have horrid AA, but its unfair to other races that only I can do a moving shot. But if Blizz were to bring the moving shot in for every race, they'd have to get rid of this hard counter system they've created, which wont happen.
Heres to people like SS keeping our hopes alive.
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On May 14 2010 01:04 Mania[K]al wrote:but its unfair to other races that only I can do a moving shot.
Its unfair that observer and dt are cloacked, zerg can burrow, that terran can lift buildings, that protoss can warp units.. Ohh its unfair that only tank can siege.. Why cant immortal siege and shoot with insane range..
Phoenix shot is a unique ability given to this unit just like every other unit has something..its not meant to replicate bugs from sc like you all seem to think that blizz misheard you..
Different game, different mechanics, different gameplay... Game you all want already exists so rejoice..
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On May 14 2010 01:15 iounas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 01:04 Mania[K]al wrote:but its unfair to other races that only I can do a moving shot. Its unfair that observer and dt are cloacked, zerg can burrow, that terran can lift buildings, that protoss can warp units.. Ohh its unfair that only tank can siege.. Why cant immortal siege and shoot with insane range.. Phoenix shot is a unique ability given to this unit just like every other unit has something..its not meant to replicate bugs from sc like you all seem to think that blizz misheard you.. Different game, different mechanics, different gameplay... Game you all want already exists so rejoice..
So you disagree that SC2 is inferior to its predecessor? You can see this game going 10 years?
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Hi, I just wanted to post that you did a phenomenal job! These things are exactly what micro should be. I just hope Blizzard will acknowledge this, and maybe cave in and implement this ^^!
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On May 14 2010 01:20 Mania[K]al wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2010 01:15 iounas wrote:On May 14 2010 01:04 Mania[K]al wrote:but its unfair to other races that only I can do a moving shot. Its unfair that observer and dt are cloacked, zerg can burrow, that terran can lift buildings, that protoss can warp units.. Ohh its unfair that only tank can siege.. Why cant immortal siege and shoot with insane range.. Phoenix shot is a unique ability given to this unit just like every other unit has something..its not meant to replicate bugs from sc like you all seem to think that blizz misheard you.. Different game, different mechanics, different gameplay... Game you all want already exists so rejoice.. So you disagree that SC2 is inferior to its predecessor? You can see this game going 10 years?
Im saying its different.. And we cant expect them to put old bugs in game..
And some people said that new phoenix reduces micro.. How? With old phoenix you can just engage and be a spectator but now you can really micro them around..
And then some people said that its overpowered because it has 1 range over them and slightly faster.. According to their theory stacked mutas would rape infinite archons because of much faster speed and longer range..
They can reinvent some units for different micro tricks but I dont see them changing whole game to be like sc..
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EPT![[image loading]](http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090630041513/starcraft/images/thumb/6/67/SporeCrawler_SC2_DevGame2.jpg/180px-SporeCrawler_SC2_DevGame2.jpg)
