On May 14 2010 01:04 Mania[K]al wrote:but its unfair to other races that only I can do a moving shot.
Its unfair that observer and dt are cloacked, zerg can burrow, that terran can lift buildings, that protoss can warp units.. Ohh its unfair that only tank can siege.. Why cant immortal siege and shoot with insane range.. Phoenix shot is a unique ability given to this unit just like every other unit has something..its not meant to replicate bugs from sc like you all seem to think that blizz misheard you.. Different game, different mechanics, different gameplay... Game you all want already exists so rejoice..
So you disagree that SC2 is inferior to its predecessor? You can see this game going 10 years?
Im saying its different.. And we cant expect them to put old bugs in game.. And some people said that new phoenix reduces micro.. How? With old phoenix you can just engage and be a spectator but now you can really micro them around.. And then some people said that its overpowered because it has 1 range over them and slightly faster.. According to their theory stacked mutas would rape infinite archons because of much faster speed and longer range.. They can reinvent some units for different micro tricks but I dont see them changing whole game to be like sc..
In an extreme case, you can fly the phoenix around the map using the minimap and it will shoot everything on the way. Its the kind of micro that doesn't require multitasking or screen-flicking, as flying past mutas and exploiting their ability to target is almost as effective as strafing backwards.
This is not always the case, there are instances where this allows for great "attention grabbing" micro, but I am looking to find a compromise, I have another idea so ill be working on another version of phoenix soon. Again I'm doing this just to explore possiblities, i don't really have an issue with patch 11 phoenix and thought the strafing back was pretty cool when it came out.
I like the tank one. So long as they are sufficiently difficult, micro overcoming hard counters should be possible. The hellion one looks retarded for that reason.
I would but my upload is so bad i can only record the most fundamental stuff. I even have banshee and viking micro but because its similar to the phoenix i decided to not upload it.
The map will be uploaded in half a day, you certainly can try it out then. m(^_^)m
On May 14 2010 01:04 Mania[K]al wrote:but its unfair to other races that only I can do a moving shot.
Its unfair that observer and dt are cloacked, zerg can burrow, that terran can lift buildings, that protoss can warp units.. Ohh its unfair that only tank can siege.. Why cant immortal siege and shoot with insane range.. Phoenix shot is a unique ability given to this unit just like every other unit has something..its not meant to replicate bugs from sc like you all seem to think that blizz misheard you.. Different game, different mechanics, different gameplay... Game you all want already exists so rejoice..
So you disagree that SC2 is inferior to its predecessor? You can see this game going 10 years?
Im saying its different.. And we cant expect them to put old bugs in game.. And some people said that new phoenix reduces micro.. How? With old phoenix you can just engage and be a spectator but now you can really micro them around.. And then some people said that its overpowered because it has 1 range over them and slightly faster.. According to their theory stacked mutas would rape infinite archons because of much faster speed and longer range.. They can reinvent some units for different micro tricks but I dont see them changing whole game to be like sc..
In an extreme case, you can fly the phoenix around the map using the minimap and it will shoot everything on the way.
And why is that a problem? If you do that and it encounters an overlord it will hit him a few times and carry on..If it encounters corruptors they will take more damage because of moving trough a 4-6 range zone around corruptor where they are hit but dont shoot.. And vs vikings there is a bigger 4-9 zone, so if you move past them you are taking damage for 10 units without shooting back. Its still better to a-move it around the map..
I was amazed at how wrong at theorycrafting people can be when they said new phoenix will rape corruptors and vikings, when its a fact that its better to just engage them and dont dance as dancing phoenix wont shoot but will still be shot by longer range of these units..
On May 14 2010 01:04 Mania[K]al wrote:but its unfair to other races that only I can do a moving shot.
Its unfair that observer and dt are cloacked, zerg can burrow, that terran can lift buildings, that protoss can warp units.. Ohh its unfair that only tank can siege.. Why cant immortal siege and shoot with insane range.. Phoenix shot is a unique ability given to this unit just like every other unit has something..its not meant to replicate bugs from sc like you all seem to think that blizz misheard you.. Different game, different mechanics, different gameplay... Game you all want already exists so rejoice..
So you disagree that SC2 is inferior to its predecessor? You can see this game going 10 years?
Im saying its different.. And we cant expect them to put old bugs in game.. And some people said that new phoenix reduces micro.. How? With old phoenix you can just engage and be a spectator but now you can really micro them around.. And then some people said that its overpowered because it has 1 range over them and slightly faster.. According to their theory stacked mutas would rape infinite archons because of much faster speed and longer range.. They can reinvent some units for different micro tricks but I dont see them changing whole game to be like sc..
In an extreme case, you can fly the phoenix around the map using the minimap and it will shoot everything on the way.
And why is that a problem?
Last time I checked, Blizzard wants decision to be central in SC2. With that kind of automation in the Phoenix, a player cannot decide to NOT attack.
On May 14 2010 01:04 Mania[K]al wrote:but its unfair to other races that only I can do a moving shot.
Its unfair that observer and dt are cloacked, zerg can burrow, that terran can lift buildings, that protoss can warp units.. Ohh its unfair that only tank can siege.. Why cant immortal siege and shoot with insane range.. Phoenix shot is a unique ability given to this unit just like every other unit has something..its not meant to replicate bugs from sc like you all seem to think that blizz misheard you.. Different game, different mechanics, different gameplay... Game you all want already exists so rejoice..
So you disagree that SC2 is inferior to its predecessor? You can see this game going 10 years?
Im saying its different.. And we cant expect them to put old bugs in game.. And some people said that new phoenix reduces micro.. How? With old phoenix you can just engage and be a spectator but now you can really micro them around.. And then some people said that its overpowered because it has 1 range over them and slightly faster.. According to their theory stacked mutas would rape infinite archons because of much faster speed and longer range.. They can reinvent some units for different micro tricks but I dont see them changing whole game to be like sc..
In an extreme case, you can fly the phoenix around the map using the minimap and it will shoot everything on the way.
And why is that a problem? If you do that and it encounters an overlord it will hit him a few times and carry on..If it encounters corruptors they will take more damage because of moving trough a 4-6 range zone around corruptor where they are hit but dont shoot.. And vs vikings there is a bigger 4-9 zone, so if you move past them you are taking damage for 10 units without shooting back. Its still better to a-move it around the map..
I was amazed at how wrong at theorycrafting people can be when they said new phoenix will rape corruptors and vikings, when its a fact that its better to just engage them and dont dance as dancing phoenix wont shoot but will still be shot by longer range of these units..
Oh no I got into a debate even though i resisted for so long -_- i guess i can't help myself
Well for example lets say you have nony's 2 stargate phoenix build i would assume fly-bys would destroy overlords.
You also have the problem of the phoenix being much much less restricted by physics, so dancing phoenixs would allow for receiving less hits. Simply because the enemy units will be constrained by rotation and slowing movement shot (which is actually more delayed than stop shot). This is why if you fly past mutalisks a bunch of times you receive less damage, than if you just sit there. At least that's what I saw in one of the phoenix micro vids.
You're right, its not overpowered, but i think the point about non-dancing being more powerful than dancing is incorrect.
K the new tank is finally uploaded. Probably the most satisfying improvement so far. Hopefully I've fixed the problems that you guys mentioned about the previous tank.
If you look at the controls you can see the mashing of move and hold position, even though it looks like auto attack.
On May 14 2010 01:04 Mania[K]al wrote:but its unfair to other races that only I can do a moving shot.
Its unfair that observer and dt are cloacked, zerg can burrow, that terran can lift buildings, that protoss can warp units.. Ohh its unfair that only tank can siege.. Why cant immortal siege and shoot with insane range.. Phoenix shot is a unique ability given to this unit just like every other unit has something..its not meant to replicate bugs from sc like you all seem to think that blizz misheard you.. Different game, different mechanics, different gameplay... Game you all want already exists so rejoice..
So you disagree that SC2 is inferior to its predecessor? You can see this game going 10 years?
Im saying its different.. And we cant expect them to put old bugs in game.. And some people said that new phoenix reduces micro.. How? With old phoenix you can just engage and be a spectator but now you can really micro them around.. And then some people said that its overpowered because it has 1 range over them and slightly faster.. According to their theory stacked mutas would rape infinite archons because of much faster speed and longer range.. They can reinvent some units for different micro tricks but I dont see them changing whole game to be like sc..
In an extreme case, you can fly the phoenix around the map using the minimap and it will shoot everything on the way.
And why is that a problem? If you do that and it encounters an overlord it will hit him a few times and carry on..If it encounters corruptors they will take more damage because of moving trough a 4-6 range zone around corruptor where they are hit but dont shoot.. And vs vikings there is a bigger 4-9 zone, so if you move past them you are taking damage for 10 units without shooting back. Its still better to a-move it around the map..
I was amazed at how wrong at theorycrafting people can be when they said new phoenix will rape corruptors and vikings, when its a fact that its better to just engage them and dont dance as dancing phoenix wont shoot but will still be shot by longer range of these units..
Oh no I got into a debate even though i resisted for so long -_- i guess i can't help myself
Well for example lets say you have nony's 2 stargate phoenix build i would assume fly-bys would destroy overlords.
You also have the problem of the phoenix being much much less restricted by physics, so dancing phoenixs would allow for receiving less hits. Simply because the enemy units will be constrained by rotation and slowing movement shot (which is actually more delayed than stop shot). This is why if you fly past mutalisks a bunch of times you receive less damage, than if you just sit there. At least that's what I saw in one of the phoenix micro vids.
You're right, its not overpowered, but i think the point about non-dancing being more powerful than dancing is incorrect.
I dont see how killing overlords is any different..Its just that the unit is more responsive so you can reposition them faster..
"You're right, its not overpowered, but i think the point about non-dancing being more powerful than dancing is incorrect." Its powerful vs units with lower range than phoenix and only such unit is mutalisk.. You cant dance against anything else and be efficient.. Its mathematically impossible.. Prove me wrong if you can.. You can dance all you want in (4-9] range around vikings with you being in range and recieving shots but you wont get a shot on them..
On May 14 2010 02:06 sluggaslamoo wrote: K the new tank is finally uploaded. Probably the most satisfying improvement so far. Hopefully I've fixed the problems that you guys mentioned about the previous tank.
If you look at the controls you can see the mashing of move and hold position, even though it looks like auto attack.
On May 14 2010 02:21 MorroW wrote: reat job at tank v0.2 thats exactly what i wanted
by clicking hold pos target fire and attack move and patrol also works?
Attack-move works but its slower because its 2 clicks instead of 1, patrol is the same. It auto targets the nearest unit and you press hold-position to stop and fire, click move again to keep going.
If you wanna target a specific unit you can just attack-move on the unit obviously, and then do the same thing.
EPT
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