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Calgary26003 Posts
On November 30 2010 05:04 djWHEAT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 04:47 Chill wrote:On November 30 2010 03:27 kar1181 wrote:That was some pretty epic trolling. Like all good trolls, there was a slight (infinitesimally small) nugget to what he was driving at though that seemed to ring true. I remember after IEM in Cologne, Wheat talking about dapollo. And it was all 'you know, the guy is great, I loved what he did but.....'. When you qualifying something like that, before launching into some (pretty strong) criticism, it becomes hard to take the initial qualification as being genuine. Even if it completely is. Like he said afterwards, he's a fan of the game, fan of the coverage of the game, and like all of us has an opinion (and unlike most of us, an audience  ). I kind of agree with this. I'll consciously try not to do it in the future. I don't agree at all. You can't take TWO examples of this happening and then claim that EVERY TIME something is brought up it's presented in that way. That's horse shit. If you watch any of the shows you'll quickly realize that I (and all the other hosts) have no problems presenting something as we see it. The two examples the poster used were absolutely genuine. And while someone who's not familiar with this style of show may misinterpret it, I won't change the ways I do the shows or present an opinion about someone or something. Also Chill we had two COMPLETELY different views on the Tastosis thing. Where you were more critical about the game aspects, I was more critical about the production aspects... should we suddenly say, "well we're about to be critical towards Tastosis, so we can't say anything good about them at all". That's ridiculous. Another great example is the baneling video. I viewed it, I enjoyed it. I felt it was too long. I stopped watching. So should I have just left off the part about viewing and enjoying it and just said, "that video was too long". And left it at that? No thanks.
I think it's something that's happened naturally. "I love these guys but..." seems to have happened a few times and it sounds like a safe way to give criticism. That's not my intent. So I'm saying I think I need to take time to develop the "I love these guys" or else it sounds disingenuous. That's it.
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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL BEST VIDEO EVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!
fucking pwned good lord!
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On November 30 2010 05:09 Chill wrote:
I think it's something that's happened naturally. "I love these guys but..." seems to have happened a few times and it sounds like a safe way to give criticism. That's not my intent. So I'm saying I think I need to take time to develop the "I love these guys" or else it sounds disingenuous. That's it.
HAHAH I'm going to remember this the next time you coach me ^_^
"well wheat, the first two drones you made REALLY well... but..."
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Calgary26003 Posts
On November 30 2010 05:15 djWHEAT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2010 05:09 Chill wrote:
I think it's something that's happened naturally. "I love these guys but..." seems to have happened a few times and it sounds like a safe way to give criticism. That's not my intent. So I'm saying I think I need to take time to develop the "I love these guys" or else it sounds disingenuous. That's it. HAHAH I'm going to remember this the next time you coach me ^_^ "well wheat, the first two drones you made REALLY well... but..."
LOL
Kennigit taught me this as the shit sandwich.
"Chill, you're really good ____. But let's talk about how that's affecting ______ negatively. I want you to make it as good as you are at _____."
Wheat, I've noticed you are an amazing broadcaster. But you suck at Zerg sometimes. I want you to not suck at Zerg.
Wait I think I fucked up.
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w00t. Audio only up. Thanks guys. This always makes my trip to work easier in the morning^^
Can't wait to listen to it.
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On November 30 2010 05:09 Chill wrote:
I think it's something that's happened naturally. "I love these guys but..." seems to have happened a few times and it sounds like a safe way to give criticism. That's not my intent. So I'm saying I think I need to take time to develop the "I love these guys" or else it sounds disingenuous. That's it.
These days, since a lot of people seem to have lost the ability to distinguish genuine constructive criticism from 'hating', it seems almost required to qualify your statement with this kind of thing before hand.
Sad but true.
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I wish forum discussion was like the discussion on Weapon of Choice. I don't tune in weekly and mostly check out the VoDs, but its amazing everytime. I have my own opinions on each topic covered each week, but I think its valuable that any of it is being discussed.
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On November 30 2010 05:04 djWHEAT wrote:
[I don't agree at all. You can't take TWO examples of this happening and then claim that EVERY TIME something is brought up it's presented in that way. That's horse shit. If you watch any of the shows you'll quickly realize that I (and all the other hosts) have no problems presenting something as we see it.
Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting you do it every time, (or indeed, do it often at all). My point is, and what the troll was dancing around, is that if you say 'i like xyz, but...' people tend to forget that you like xzy and focus in on the negative thing you said.
I read recently a comment from someone writing reviews for GamesTM, and he said one of the things he has to be most careful of, is balancing criticism with praise. As one negative sentence is worth 5 positive ones. This is because people tend to react to/remember critical, far more than positive, comments.
So when you have a verbal bracket that is like 'I really fricken love xzy, they are fricken awesome, but ...'. People assume the weight of your opinion is what follows the but. And then they start to question the authenticity of what you said before that.
I really love the show, and I'm _utterly_ sure you're genuine in what you say. It's just a quirk of people/the internet age, where we tend to easily forget positive things/complimentary things, and zero in on the critical things.
For example, this post, I'm trying to convey I really enjoy the show, love the dialogue and listen to it all the time. But it's hard to read it and not zero in on the elements here which might be seen as critical. Then you start to think, does he really actually like the show, or is he just saying that.
Anyway, I'll be listening next time, and the time after that. And thanks for all the time you and chill both put into providing us with (free!!!), entertaining content!
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On November 30 2010 04:30 djWHEAT wrote:This is for all those who think trolls are something new to the shows. This is from 2007... + Show Spoiler +
I cried laughing. You, sir, are the best when it comes to hosting shows 
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I tuned in right at the very end when djWHEAT got really red and really loud. Imagine me chilling on my sofa and then hear someone screaming through my speakers ;D
Rewatched the whole show thanks to ustream the next day. Enjoyed it very much and would love for djWHEAT to talk to Tastosis and I might imagine they might really like that too. In every profession you aspire to get better it's invaluable to exchange experience. Especially in one where you put a piece of your persona into it and expose it to a greater audience. I've had this 10 years ago when I would talk to a fellow MC as a newcomer, even 5 minutes of talk about the profession felt so good because both sides just know. Be it the feelings, the stress, the preparation.
Criticism from your audience, your directors, boss, whatever, are all necessary and sometimes essential but there is no better compliment and critic then from brothers in arms so to speak.
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I don't think it's bullshit to say "I love the guy" or "I appreciate what he's doing" while giving criticism. In this environment, most people are still doing what they're doing voluntarily and that always deserves some appreciation and respect. If you didn't say that, someone would always interpret that as "You are so bad you would be better off not doing this at all."
Imo wheat was right on. Tasteless and Artosis are fucking hilarious and it's a pleasure to watch and listen to them. I think they are perfectly fine as long as the stream is only on internet and the audience is marginal, mostly fellow nerds who understand the game. If they were to show this on tv, I think they would need to polish the production.
But then again, I don't want them to turn Tastosis into some ESPN style casters. I hate those..
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It's not disingenuous to say
A) Someone is doing a 60% job, where most would be doing less than a 60% job, a lot less
B) That is good
C) Because that person has a lot of responsibility to the community, as one of the very few people involved in its growth and presentation, and the fucking enjoyment level of the overall experience, we would like them to strive for more than 60% in these areas
Shit ain't black and white!
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I am going to watch that end once a day for a long time.
"PEACE!!! , Jimbo"
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Switzerland3257 Posts
I really like the WoC-Show and tryed to not miss a single one since I know of it. But everytime you guys open the phones I ask myself "Why would you do this again? Are you nuts??"
...because like 50%?? of the callers get you into trouble... but well thats all part of the enjoyment so keep it going
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I always wanted to call in and ask Chill if he will cast TSL3 with Day9, but im afraid he would go Canadian on my ass :3
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First time watching the show, I enjoyed it quite a bit. I love watching Tastosis immensely, but you were dead on with your criticism.
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Regardless Wheat, it doesn't matter that you got all upset about what he said. That's good radio. To be perfectly honest I thought the latest show was lacking in content and interesting topics until our last little 'troll' showed up, and I don't even think that was genuinely trolling. He made a comment/opinion about the nature of the show and true, you did get defensive - WHICH I loved every second of. It was a good call - much better than the calls you took before it.
Weapon of Choice is the closest thing to an FM style radio show the community has. Get upset all you want - I know that's not becoming of the Starcraft community, we're supposed to all have these great manners and not be bm, but radio is the perfect arena for this. Radio programs are more compelling when the hosts are giving 1s and 10s, not a bunch of 5s. It's better to say something sucks and yell and make a big deal out of it, and say you love something and defend it to hell and back, than it is to give a bunch of 'ehh yea that's all right kind of' opinions.
Case in point: Incontrol on SotG. Idra draws a huge crowd because of his skill and elitism. Day9 is the ultimate force to be reckoned with in the Starcraft community because of such a loud and endearing personality. And yet Incontrol is probably the most interesting person to listen to on SotG. Yes, he's funny, but he's also giving strong opinions and has a fiery personality. In the same way Tyler balances that show, Chill balances yours very nicely with the calm 'voice of reason' persona.
Anyway just my feedback as someone who's listened to a lot of great radio shows like Tony Kornheiser, Adam Carolla and Howard Stern. What do they all have in common? Huge personalities and opinions they're not afraid to lay down as fact for the benefit of entertainment.
tl;dr, keep up the excellent work, get mad. lol
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To avoid trolls, if you can get someone to be a call screener, that might help make the phone time the most efficient it can be, so you won't end up with ppl just saying "sup, bye."
Idk who would be up to the task for taking dozens of potential calls, passing judgement in seconds and forwarding them to you or deeming them trolls. Actually, maybe slasher would want to do it?
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On November 30 2010 23:35 251 wrote:
Case in point: Incontrol on SotG. Idra draws a huge crowd because of his skill and elitism. Day9 is the ultimate force to be reckoned with in the Starcraft community because of such a loud and endearing personality. And yet Incontrol is probably the most interesting person to listen to on SotG. Yes, he's funny, but he's also giving strong opinions and has a fiery personality. In the same way Tyler balances that show, Chill balances yours very nicely with the calm 'voice of reason' persona.
just wanna point out how much truth and good points this part had, i 100% agree with this statement
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EPT
