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On April 08 2010 05:44 TerranUp16 wrote:Ugh. We've just about all been saying that Marauders and Roaches need tweaking... and some of us (myself not included) have indicated that what Blizzard is doing in Patch #8 will be enough... but really I feel this is possibly, in some ways, a step backwards. I mean, the core issue of Roaches and Marauders was that if the Zerg pulled out Roaches, you HAD to pull out Marauders because *NOTHING* else can counter them effectively enough short of air (but ZvZ has shown us how well that works  ). Concussive Shells were never a serious issue against Roaches and the -1 armor isn't going to have much effect on mech's capability against Roaches (although I guess it might help Zealots a bit and might make more Marines in a bio composition a bit more viable), but either way Marauders are still the only real answer to Roaches. And on top of the above, this all just makes Roaches and Marauders more even more boring. By nerfing burrowed movement Blizzard is indicating that they're not interested in leveraging that much and by not touching the Roach's hp or hp regen they're further indicating that it's just supposed to continue as this completely boring damage sponge of a unit. Marauders keeping their same stats minus Concussive Shells as an upgrade is again quite identical- it just makes the unit even more boring. SC2 as an eSport? At this rate, I don't think so.
I fully disagree. Terran could switch to rines + tanks against roaches, you wanna say that this will not rape Roaches? Maybe, if youre micro is really bad..
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On April 08 2010 05:44 TerranUp16 wrote:Ugh. We've just about all been saying that Marauders and Roaches need tweaking... and some of us (myself not included) have indicated that what Blizzard is doing in Patch #8 will be enough... but really I feel this is possibly, in some ways, a step backwards. I mean, the core issue of Roaches and Marauders was that if the Zerg pulled out Roaches, you HAD to pull out Marauders because *NOTHING* else can counter them effectively enough short of air (but ZvZ has shown us how well that works ). Concussive Shells were never a serious issue against Roaches and the -1 armor isn't going to have much effect on mech's capability against Roaches (although I guess it might help Zealots a bit and might make more Marines in a bio composition a bit more viable), but either way Marauders are still the only real answer to Roaches. And on top of the above, this all just makes Roaches and Marauders more even more boring. By nerfing burrowed movement Blizzard is indicating that they're not interested in leveraging that much and by not touching the Roach's hp or hp regen they're further indicating that it's just supposed to continue as this completely boring damage sponge of a unit. Marauders keeping their same stats minus Concussive Shells as an upgrade is again quite identical- it just makes the unit even more boring. SC2 as an eSport? At this rate, I don't think so.
Jesus christ, the BETA has been out like a month, and we're back to "will never be a true e-sport".
If the game is skillful and interesting to watch, it will be an e-sport. I think TheLittleOne games proved that given the right players, both are true.
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On April 08 2010 05:50 Yamoth wrote:
Honestly, I still can't believed this patch is real. I mean can we really have a patch without the protoss getting hit by the nerf bat?
The Voidray was NERFED dude!....
Or was it now? ^^'
It's soo funny to see ppl saying: "Im gonna change to Protoss now" as soon as the others races like Zerg get some nerfs. I'm lolrofling all over the place when reading stuff like that. ^^'
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On April 08 2010 05:52 kickinhead wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 05:50 Yamoth wrote:
Honestly, I still can't believed this patch is real. I mean can we really have a patch without the protoss getting hit by the nerf bat? It's soo funny to see ppl saying: "Im gonna change to Protoss now" as soon as the others races like Zerg get some nerfs. I'm lolrofling all over the place when reading stuff like that. ^^'
Agree. Thats cause people love easy wins.
I DONT. And Im loyal to one rase, from SC1, BW and now SC2.
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On April 08 2010 05:49 go4it wrote:
Looks like IdrA will start playing Protoss now, muahahaha...
Indeed, INDEED! The protoss are getting stronger in both technology and now, with the zerg AND some terrans, we are INVINCIBLE! MWAHAHAHHAhAHAHA! THANKYOU BLIZZARD!
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On April 08 2010 05:52 kickinhead wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 05:50 Yamoth wrote:
Honestly, I still can't believed this patch is real. I mean can we really have a patch without the protoss getting hit by the nerf bat? The Voidray was NERFED dude!.... Or was it now? ^^' It's soo funny to see ppl saying: "Im gonna change to Protoss now" as soon as the others races like Zerg get some nerfs. I'm lolrofling all over the place when reading stuff like that. ^^'
So you don't want us to get stronger?
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I still think they're going the wrong way with the Thor. Getting them out isn't the problem. The problem is that it's a big dumb unit with very low mobility trying to be the goliath.
Like the voidray changes. It's not a complete nerf. More of a tweak, with 50 minerals tacked on. When I play PvZ I'm one of the few who likes to tech to stargate over robo and balance out one or two voidrays to harass overlords/kill roaches and then transition. I already felt they were great roach killers. Their damage is actually buffed a little bit overall now and with roaches having 1 less armor(and Void ray damage ticking every second) and doing more damage fully charged should actually have them killing roaches faster.
Although then again everything kills roaches faster. Nerfed, finally nerfed! And I'm glad marauder got nerfed too. We've finally broken the log-jam in T1.5 balancing and I have a feeling we'll start seeing a lot more stuff coming to the surface.
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about Zerg: you all aren't including all of the Korean data that shows their opinion of Zerg being the best race.
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now if only they'd reduce the supply cost down to 2 and make tanks cost 100 gas instead of 125. Thor decreased build time is huge O_O
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marines stand a chance now!
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Now Thors will auto one shot hydras... and they are more available... and they already counter mutas ridiculously well... bah!
For personal balance changes I would have rather seen something like...
+ Show Spoiler +- Reducing Marauder HP by 30, but decreasing it's cost to 75 minerals.
- Making Marauder slow initially start at 20% slowdown and the upgrade is to 50%
- Ghost EMP reduces shields/energy by 75 instead of 100
- Thor cannon attack no longer stuns massive type units (it's broken vs ultras)
- Up hellion base attack slightly while reducing Pre-Ignitor upgrade to something like +3 attack vs light but increasing it's splash radius (i know very vague)
- Roaches have 1 armor and reduced hp by 45. UP their burrowed speed movement to like 2.5 not decrease.
- Spore crawler has +1 range
- Spine crawler build time reduced 20%
- Ultra unit size decreased (still massive or w/e, just the size), speed up makes it MUCH faster, reduce splash size slightly
- Hydralisk supply cost reduced to 1, attack reduced by 3 (keep same HP though), and give it a speed upgrade (they move retardedly slow off creep) (I would be willing to reduce the overall speed boost creep currently gives JUST to make hydras move faster off of it)
- Immortal completely revamped, (something like) having 225 shields and 60 hp, and taking a max of 15 dmg instead of 10 with shields, does 20 + 12 vs armored), costs maybe 50 minerals less
- Archon has 400 shields
- High templar feedback move removed for some other technique, idk atm, but I hate that move, makes infestors useless vs toss I feel, and the entire mechanic of having it so readily is retarded (and it makes them counter BC's even stronger than just having storm)
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Another change that shows Blizzard really pays attention to the current issues of roach/marauder..
Good patch.
Most patches coming up to this seems to have forced terran to play a more turtle style early game apart from reaper rushes really.
I like that though.. roach nerf was beatuiful too, what will Idra do now?
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On April 08 2010 05:54 go4it wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2010 05:52 kickinhead wrote:On April 08 2010 05:50 Yamoth wrote:
Honestly, I still can't believed this patch is real. I mean can we really have a patch without the protoss getting hit by the nerf bat? It's soo funny to see ppl saying: "Im gonna change to Protoss now" as soon as the others races like Zerg get some nerfs. I'm lolrofling all over the place when reading stuff like that. ^^' Agree. Thats cause people love easy wins. I DONT. And Im loyal to one rase, from SC1, BW and now SC2.
I actually like playing the "underdog-race". ^^'
I was playing Terran back when they got raped by toss with extremely fast 4 warpgate-pushes and stuff but changed to toss once everyone started massing Marauders, just cuz it wasn't fun to play at all. I'm gonna definitely stay with Protoss though, because it's IMHO just very fun to play and it requires a good amount of Macro (just look at Chronoboost - you have to use it twice as often as the other Macro-abilities) and encourages creativity with lots of possibilities like warp-in's, chronoboost that can make units/probes/Upgrades build/research faster etc.
Though I've never felt like Toss were overpowered. In fact, after 250 Games with Terran with easily over 60% wins I totally got raped playing Toss and it took me about 500 games to get back to over 55% wins and Platinum.
Ppl tend to see timing-attacks that work in some instances and think that it's easy to win with toss, though they don't see that those attacks are often All-in's and that the Toss is behind economically after the first 5 mins in every MU so you have to make that attack count.
I also don't like to play all-in's or cheese and rly, I dare you guys - Play a straight-up Macro-wars with toss against T or Z, with a solid build that doesn't die to all sorts of cheese and you'll see how hard it's to play Toss solid without having to depend on all-in timing-attacks.
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Whoo just won a last zvp before the system shuts down.. probably the last zvp i'll win.
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On April 08 2010 06:02 AssuredVacancy wrote:
Whoo just won a last zvp before the system shuts down.. probably the last zvp i'll win.
lol sooo true.
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more toss nerfs! not too bad though, was fearing a major sentry nerf.
but at least they were indirectly buffed through marauder/roach nerf.
can't wait to see what changes this patch will bring
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All in all, this was best patch that came so far from Blizz IMHO.
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On April 08 2010 06:03 Chen wrote:
more toss nerfs! not too bad though, was fearing a major sentry nerf.
but at least they were indirectly buffed through marauder/roach nerf.
can't wait to see what changes this patch will bring
Where is the toss nerf? They just buffed the Void ray, or turned it into more of a glass cannon than before. Really don't see the issue..
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On April 08 2010 06:03 Chen wrote:
more toss nerfs! not too bad though, was fearing a major sentry nerf.
but at least they were indirectly buffed through marauder/roach nerf.
can't wait to see what changes this patch will bring
Everyone is changing to the nerf-bombed but still strong-ass toss now! HIT US WITH THE NERF BAT NOW BLIZZARD!
+ Show Spoiler +Yes, I'm still some what crazy with power.
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On April 08 2010 06:03 Chen wrote:
more toss nerfs!
Who, what, where?
It's the first patch since a long time with no Toss-nerf. xD
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/mirror/smilies/confused.gif)
