EPTPatch 8 Discussion - Page 28
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JoeCrow
United States167 Posts
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muckymuck
United Kingdom14 Posts
You don't want to change too many things at the same time  | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 08 2010 05:36 JoeCrow wrote: Hydra nerf (and most zerg nerfs) only helps the ZVZ matchup by making mutas/other strategies more viable. Im betting most zergs are loving this patch. no they hating it except for ZvZ | ||
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HydroZ
United States34 Posts
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sleeepy
Canada777 Posts
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DreamShake
Peru120 Posts
TvZ became alot harder, even without Marauder concuss shell. PvZ will be harder too, Weaker hydras and Roach... Can't say that its a bad idea though, I havent lost a PvZ in a while, just fast expoing to roach+hydra+upgrades As a random player I am pleased with this overall! | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On April 08 2010 05:41 DreamShake wrote: I don't understand the Hydra nerf, other than to make Muta more viable in ZvZ? Hydra got raped by mech before, now that mech is easier to get its even more rape. TvZ became alot harder, even without Marauder concuss shell. PvZ will be harder too, Weaker hydras and Roach... Can't say that its a bad idea though, I havent lost a PvZ in a while, just fast expoing to roach+hydra+upgrades As a random player I am pleased with this overall! I think ppl will have to think of TvZ mech the way TvZ mech worked in SC1. It's all about hitting the right timing to get up a bunch of expansion and defelcting Hellions early on and getting the right Muta/Hydra combination against Thor/Tank in the mid to lategame. It's also way easier to harrass, with lots of options like Nydus Worm, Overlord-Drops (heavily underused so far IMHO) and the Terran Mech Army being even slower than in SC1 with Thors. ^^' | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
So, basically, they're A) still a deadly force of death and destruction against Armoured 'saviour' units when they sneak into a base and batter on the main building for a while (e.g. Vikings, Stalkers) B) they're going to kill Zerg Queens faster and then start work on the Hatchery quicker C) Still pretty useless against masses of Capital ships like BCs, Carriers and Broodlords (with Corruptor support) Not sure what the real point of the change is. Other changes include: Immortals can 3-shot Roaches without the upgrade Collossi can 2-shot Hydras once more Terrans may start mixing in Marines with those Marauders, to halt early Protoss aggression, then probably pushing when they get the concussive shell upgrade, but it'll be with less Marauders. All should be good changes, but the early Reaper rush is still going to be a nightmare to deal with. Little concerned about that one. | ||
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TerranUp16
United States88 Posts
We've just about all been saying that Marauders and Roaches need tweaking... and some of us (myself not included) have indicated that what Blizzard is doing in Patch #8 will be enough... but really I feel this is possibly, in some ways, a step backwards. I mean, the core issue of Roaches and Marauders was that if the Zerg pulled out Roaches, you HAD to pull out Marauders because *NOTHING* else can counter them effectively enough short of air (but ZvZ has shown us how well that works ). Concussive Shells were never a serious issue against Roaches and the -1 armor isn't going to have much effect on mech's capability against Roaches (although I guess it might help Zealots a bit and might make more Marines in a bio composition a bit more viable), but either way Marauders are still the only real answer to Roaches.And on top of the above, this all just makes Roaches and Marauders more even more boring. By nerfing burrowed movement Blizzard is indicating that they're not interested in leveraging that much and by not touching the Roach's hp or hp regen they're further indicating that it's just supposed to continue as this completely boring damage sponge of a unit. Marauders keeping their same stats minus Concussive Shells as an upgrade is again quite identical- it just makes the unit even more boring. SC2 as an eSport? At this rate, I don't think so. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 08 2010 05:43 kickinhead wrote: I think ppl will have to think of TvZ mech the way TvZ mech worked in SC1. It's all about hitting the right timing to get up a bunch of expansion and defelcting Hellions and getting the right Muta/Hydra combination against Thor/Tank. Then I'm fucked, I want bio to be more viable and much better than mech overall. | ||
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Black Octopi
187 Posts
On April 08 2010 05:41 DreamShake wrote: To make all units more viable in all matchups. Right now all people can think of is "what unit X I need" or "what unit X+Y do I need?". I'm pretty sure this is not to encourage hybrid unit composition but rather to encourage tactics rather then just throwing your units into the enemy.I don't understand the Hydra nerf, other than to make Muta more viable in ZvZ? I believe it was mentioned here or on b.net that the change simply makes hydra vulnerable to psi storms now. | ||
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NiTenIchiRyu
United Kingdom273 Posts
On April 08 2010 05:30 Crabman123 wrote: So now hydras and mutas get raped by thors... I guess ZvT is pretty much massing roaches at this point in time. And with roaches being the most boring and uninteresting unit with no real special ability that is useful in SC2, I'm done with SC2 until they make zerg fun to play again. Seconded. Plus the lack of a decent high ground mechanic and games being decided by a single battle. | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 08 2010 05:45 NiTenIchiRyu wrote: Seconded. Plus the lack of a decent high ground mechanic and games being decided by a single battle. Just switch to toss, it really isn't so hard. | ||
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fAker
Denmark44 Posts
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go4it
Croatia91 Posts
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On April 08 2010 05:48 fAker wrote: my sc2 dosent update no ones does for some reason | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On April 08 2010 05:44 3FFA wrote: Then I'm fucked, I want bio to be more viable and much better than mech overall. It was mostly depending on the Maps in Sc1 and that will most likely be the case in SC2 as well, but I guess both Builds can coexist easily in SC2. It's probably all about the ability to secure a 3rd with tanks and short push-distances for Terran to use Mech in TvZ the way it was played in SC1. I can't see Thor's and Tanks being that good on DO for example, though maybe mech could still be played with the Idea of harrassing with Hellions and dropping Tanks in Mind, but not really with those huge Lategame Mech-timing-pushes. But on Maps like Steppes of War (I don't really like the Map for the reason everybody else seems to be totally crazy about it, because it allows heavy aggressive and often just stupid-massing to be very effective), I can see Hellions+Tanks+Thors totally dominating Zerg. | ||
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Yamoth
United States315 Posts
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Ghardo
Germany1685 Posts
Q u o t e: On April 05 2010 21:52 DrainX wrote: I think all three units can be balanced and be made into three units that fit three distinct roles rather than three all round very strong units. The roach should be changed to 2 supply and maybe have its hp and cost raised to balance the increased supply cost. This would make the roach an early damage soaking unit for zerg but would make it impossible to mass them in the numbers we see today. Marauders should have their damage reduced and also their hp and cost slightly reduced making them ineffective on their own. They would then be used for their slowing effect and not their damage and would be grouped with other units that could deal the damage. Since the hp is reduced but the stim still costs the same amount of hp, Marauders with stim wouldn't be as OP as before. Immortals should have their bonus damage against armored units reduced. Their main trait should be their hardened shields, they should be a tanking unit to soak up damage from units like tanks and thors. If they weren't the heavy damage dealers vs armored units that they are today terran mech might be viable. + the changes they have made to the units not adressed in the above post. would have been much more sound. | ||
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