SC2 Ladder Analysis: What YOU Need to Know - Page 4

ymirheim

Sweden300 Posts

April 22 2010 01:29 GMT

#61

Sometimes the ladder system seems incredibly arbitrary. Mainly when it comes to demoting and promoting. According to the system apparently I am too good for silver and too bad for gold because of the five times I've been reset I have always gotten placed in gold with no problem, not using cheese or all in just straight up games. Then I've played something like ten more games, with a 50% win ratio and then I am instantly demoted to silver. While I am in gold the system seems balanced, I play people of my own skill, when I loose it is still an even game and when I win I still had to work hard for it. Why the system demotes me after first of all such a small sample of games, and secondly while I am not at a negative win ratio and sitting comfortably on one of the top 20 spots in my division with 1200 rating is beyond me.

What then happens is that I end up in silver and then I just faceroll everything for weeks. I sit in the first place of my division with at least 100 rating down to whomever is below me but obviously I never get promoted. I just have to sit there playing endlessly tiresome games with no challenge whatsoever.

I am really completely loosing all interest in the game from this because my ambition is just killed off.

Chronopolis

Canada1484 Posts

April 22 2010 03:42 GMT

#62

Very helpful information, especially with blizzard's viel of silence regarding the issue. Weekly tournaments would be sick! For me it took ~150 games of 55-60% win ratio to move up from gold to plat.

ManiacTheZealot

United States490 Posts

April 22 2010 03:55 GMT

#63

On April 03 2010 02:02 Excalibur_Z wrote:

It's generally accepted that the hierarchy of WoW Arena participants looks like this:

0-1499: Newb
1500-1799: Average
1800-1999: Fairly skilled
2000-2199: Very skilled
2200-2999: Extremely skilled
3000: Prot warrior
3000+ Wizard Cleave

Fixed

No_eL

Chile1438 Posts

April 22 2010 04:02 GMT

#64

congrats to op, interesting read

cHaNg-sTa

United States1058 Posts

April 22 2010 04:03 GMT

#65

It feels like if you're a C- player (arguably even D+) from SC1, you can make it into platinum league fairly easy with a large amount of the relatively new players to SC2.

ManiacTheZealot

United States490 Posts

April 22 2010 04:10 GMT

#66

On April 03 2010 02:02 Excalibur_Z wrote:

It is not currently known how leagues are divided, but it is certain that they each contain a certain percentile of players. I estimate that to be this:

Top 10% - Platinum
10-25% - Gold
25-45% - Silver
45-70% - Bronze
70-100% - Copper

If it was a normal distribution it would be -

10% - Platinum
20% - Gold
40% - Silver
20% - Bronze
10% - Copper

Sejong

Korea (South)153 Posts

April 22 2010 06:32 GMT

#67

On April 22 2010 13:10 ManiacTheZealot wrote:

Show nested quote +

If it was a normal distribution it would be -

10% - Platinum
20% - Gold
40% - Silver
20% - Bronze
10% - Copper

you've got the right idea in that you have a bell curve. Only thing I wonder about is that in a normal distribution you have 68.2% of people within 1 standard deviation of the mean, and then outliers on the outside. I think a normal distribution might look like

2.2% - Platinum
13.6% - Gold
68.2% - Silver
13.6% - Bronze
2.2% - Copper

velocifero

Canada11 Posts

May 11 2010 07:20 GMT

#68

With divisions, as I understand it, players in div 1 platinum for example would just be the first 100 players to get placed in platinum, so your division number would really just be indicative of chronological placement as opposed to a breakdown of skill or win-rates.

In any case with the launch of the game and public unveiling of bnet2.0, I imagine Blizzard will be disclosing additional information, and at the very least the noticeable increase in the size of the player base will provide new perspectives and information on the matter.

Solid post and if not spot on, gives a very logical breakdown of how a ladder functions.

ZapRoffo

United States5544 Posts

May 11 2010 14:51 GMT

#69

Some more information:
With a matchmaking rating system, the way points are assigned is as follows. There is a default point assignment (was +/-12 for wow, seems similar in sc2) for an "equal match result". The amount won or lost in any given match, though, is determined by comparing your displayed rating to your opponent's matchmaking rating. This is why many people are experiencing huge gains for wins and small losses. It's because they haven't played enough to raise their displayed rating to their matchmaking rating. They may be matched as an 1800 matchmaking rating, but are at 1300, so if they win against an equal opponent (1800 matchmaking), they get the points of a 1300 beating an 1800, which may be +20 or something. The opponent compares his matchmaking to your displayed rating to calculate his point change, if he's displayed 1600 and you are also 1800 matchmaking, he will -10 or so (slightly less than -12 default).

One huge misconception people I feel like people need to learn the truth about:

The bonus pool WILL NOT cause inflation of ratings in the long run as long as it only modifies your displayed rating and not your matchmaking rating, which appears to be the case. In the long run, displayed ratings converge to matchmaking rating, so if matchmaking rating is unaffected there is no long term effect.

An example:
I start with a big bonus pool and win up to 1600, and my matchmaking rating is 1700. Alice wins the same amount against similar quality opponents but with no bonus pool and goes to only 1350 or so, but also with 1700 matchmaking rating, because matchmaking is totally unaffected. Now in my games I will only be looking at winning +13 or so from my opponents who are 1700 matchmaking, while Alice is looking at something like +16 or +17 from her 1700 matchmaking opponents. I'm looking at -10 or -11 from losses, while she's looking at -8 or so from those same people. Eventually the result over a long enough period is we both end up at 1700 if no change in skill happens.
Even if I got enough of a bonus pool to get to 1900 or something, once that runs out I'm going to lose more for losses than I get for wins against people who are my skill level until I get to the appropriate level. The bonus pool just functions to get people's displayed rating jump started so if they took a break they can jump to their rating more quickly.

Perfect Balance

Norway131 Posts

May 11 2010 15:02 GMT

#70

I just think it was easier when I was number 740 on the ladder in WC3 and could see the 100 people ahead of me and behind me. I would recognice names I had played against and could easily see the race distribution at the top. If I wanted to participate in tournaments I would sign up for one, or initiate a clan war.

I'd prefer to see my universal ranking like all other game ladders in recorded history.

Crais

Canada2136 Posts

May 11 2010 15:10 GMT

#71

Great read. I have one interesting thing. You say that in order to advance your MMR has to comfortably sit within the next bracket. In that case how can you lose a game and be promoted. Why would you not have been promoted after your previous win?

mooose

Japan200 Posts

May 11 2010 15:24 GMT

#72

Thanks for the info.
I'm really starting to dislike this rating system. I wish it was just a transparent ELO rating and I could have a number next to my name which I could compare to anyone else regardless of divison/league.

FlamingTurd

United States1059 Posts

May 11 2010 15:26 GMT

#73

I really enjoyed that thnx OP altho I noticed this info is about a month and a half old now and it seems things have changed a bit.

I purposely lost my first 5 qualifying games. After the first reset I won a vast majority of my games and it took me like 70 games to go from copper to platinum. After the second reset it took me like 25 games to go from copper to platinum.

And yes, I as do most other people I'd assume really despise the whole top 100 in each division as it really means absolutely nothing and wish there were some sort of top 1k available to know where u really stand.

flextra

United States22 Posts

May 11 2010 15:42 GMT

#74

Good post OP, and it seems like the actual numbers in your comparison to WoW correlate okay. I guess the top 15% (Rival) mark in wow is probably 2250-2300 in most battlegroups so 2200 as top 20% isn't off at all.

Also, to a posters above, while silver is the midpoint, I doubt that each league is calculated at one standard deviation above or below the others. I gave two of my friends beta keys a week or two ago, and one placed into bronze and one in gold, both in 1v1, and they both were put in a division between 100 and 110, so while the sample size is small, I am gonna go with the logical conclusion that the population of each league is equally distributed. 20% for each league.

As for MMR from WoW though, the MMR carries over from previous seasons and defaults at 1500 for new characters, and even if you win-streak against equal rated players, your MMR shouldn't spike up that fast, only if you win against higher rated players (which you shouldn't be facing if the system is working correctly). As for Starcraft 2 though, with only 5 matches to determine your rating, I'm guessing it knows it's a lot less accurate, so it'll probably spike your MMR much higher on a win streak.

Grape

145 Posts

May 11 2010 16:12 GMT

#75

Great read, thanks for the effort.

Fts

Sweden369 Posts

May 11 2010 16:26 GMT

#76

Cleared some things up for me, thanks for a great post.

micropede

United States47 Posts

May 11 2010 17:19 GMT

#77

My division is currently 'undefined.' Does anyone know what this means?

mrgoochio

United States557 Posts

May 11 2010 17:56 GMT

#78

can you elaborate on "tough divisions"? I honestly have no idea what you mean by there are typically more skilled players in lower div numbers. maybe I read that wrong, but for example, ppl that play games immediately after a reset have a chance at getting into low numbered platinum divisions whereas people who log on later wont have a chance as those low divisions would be full. how does that equate to more skilled players being in lower divisions? more dedicated, but not necessarily more skilled.

can you also elaborate on where you got your information on sc2 tournament info? or is that speculation based off of previous blizzard titles?