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On March 31 2010 08:45 Shiladie wrote:Protoss need to stop bitching, I would be suprised if the actual win-rates have ever been anything outside of a 5% range of 50% for any race the entire beta, post the big terran buff patch. I expect these forums to be a bit more civil then screaming imba/uselessness at every change. hive upg for roach is actually useless now though 
After the big terran buff patch, the top toss players were at 42% winrate. zerg was at 54. T was at 58.
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On March 31 2010 08:30 Chen wrote:Blizzard really hates protoss. seriously when the fuck are they going to stop nerfing toss and give them a buff? when their win rate gets down to 25%? 40% pre-patch and probably going to drop pretty heavily after this one... Terran gets buffed across the board Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 04:41 eXigent. wrote:On March 31 2010 04:22 CharlieMurphy wrote:On March 31 2010 04:21 MorroW wrote:
awesome patch! liked every single thing about it
I hope you are joking The storm nerf is not really that big, its radius decreases slightly. Toss gets a ~40% decrease in the power of one of its most vital abilities (for those of you who are mathematically challenged, 25% decrease in radius=43.75% decrease in area) 1.5^2=2.25 vs 2^2=4 in exchange, they get a 20% buff in cannon HP... Zerg gets a 25% nerf to the immediate cost of spores, a 25% damage buff to spines(vs non armored) AND a 27% attack rate increase. Roach and broodlord nerf are nice, but those only apply post-hive tech, which isnt really the problem.
it's also possible that they still consider toss to have a disadvantage and plan on buffing them at some later point, they just aren't sure what to buff. right now they might just be adjusting the parameters of the game better so that it isn't so bland or "gay". storm was good but if the radius is too big it kind of makes it a storm fest and can give the game a high degree of variance which might not be the best for the game. i'm protoss too, i was a bit disappointed first but i think it might be a step in the right direction to make the game better.
i mean it's still really easy to storm a huge radius u just need more energy
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On March 31 2010 07:20 Fayth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 07:19 StorrZerg wrote:On March 31 2010 07:18 McCain wrote:On March 31 2010 07:14 StorrZerg wrote:On March 31 2010 06:27 Tdelamay wrote:
The banshee is a base raiding unit. Now that static defense is better, it will be harder for banshee to do what they did, so they buffed her health by 10 hp. Which is okay. I don't think a banshee can take down a photon cannon. fuck i'd hope a photon cannon could take down 2 banshies... ffs 2 banshees > photon cannon fyi. so dumb what? what's so dumb about that? lol banshees attack ground only and they're 150/100, you'd expect a cannon to beat 2 banshees?
because in BW the same cost in wraiths do far less DPS, same kind of harassment mobility, and far less HP.
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United States1866 Posts
PLEASE INCREASE THE RANGE ON SPORE CRAWLERS
I dont know how else to say it but i would take a cost increase and a damage nerf if the damn things would just cover a wider radius. You cannot defend a hatchery with 3 spore crawlers, let alone a base and a natural with 6 (which is an absolutely insane investment).
I'm not saying throwing down 2 spore crawlers should be permanent safety - all I want is if i throw down a spore on one side of the hatchery, the banshee cant just fly to the other side and kill it.
As of now the Banshee is like going to SC1, making the wraith way stronger, removing overlord detection, weaking spore colonies severely, and making hydra a tier 2 unit
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On March 31 2010 09:00 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 07:20 Fayth wrote:On March 31 2010 07:19 StorrZerg wrote:On March 31 2010 07:18 McCain wrote:On March 31 2010 07:14 StorrZerg wrote:On March 31 2010 06:27 Tdelamay wrote:
The banshee is a base raiding unit. Now that static defense is better, it will be harder for banshee to do what they did, so they buffed her health by 10 hp. Which is okay. I don't think a banshee can take down a photon cannon. fuck i'd hope a photon cannon could take down 2 banshies... ffs 2 banshees > photon cannon fyi. so dumb what? what's so dumb about that? lol banshees attack ground only and they're 150/100, you'd expect a cannon to beat 2 banshees? because in BW the same cost in wraiths do far less DPS, same kind of harassment mobility, and far less HP.
So? You wanna play BW? Go play BW...
Wraiths were mainly ATA, banshees are ATG
Let's take a look at the only ATG-only unit in SC1 - the guardian. Do you still think that it's ridiculous that they killed cannons? O.o
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What was Thor splash radius previously? I noticed that it use to hit about 2 units per volley (when they were not stacked). How many mutas does it hit now (if they are not stacked)? Can't test for myself till I finish work 
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On March 31 2010 09:03 Atrioc wrote:
PLEASE INCREASE THE RANGE ON SPORE CRAWLERS
I dont know how else to say it but i would take a cost increase and a damage nerf if the damn things would just cover a wider radius. You cannot defend a hatchery with 3 spore crawlers, let alone a base and a natural with 6 (which is an absolutely insane investment).
I'm not saying throwing down 2 spore crawlers should be permanent safety - all I want is if i throw down a spore on one side of the hatchery, the banshee cant just fly to the other side and kill it.
As of now the Banshee is like going to SC1, making the wraith way stronger, removing overlord detection, weaking spore colonies severely, and making hydra a tier 2 unit
I couldn't agree more, I always feel like my 3 spores aren't doing the job against an air attack. We should be able to know that at least that expo is safe from being harassed.
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Yeah, Spore Crawler range is pitifully short.
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Wow the turrets are ridiculously good now... a group of 3 turrets repels 10 mutas pretty easily. An island with 8ish turrets is pretty much untouchable.
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Canada5565 Posts
On March 31 2010 09:39 AssuredVacancy wrote:
Wow the turrets are ridiculously good now... a group of 3 turrets repels 10 mutas pretty easily. An island with 8ish turrets is pretty much untouchable.
Not as good vs. Colossus now though 
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Don't the spore crawlers have the exact same range as turrets and cannons? And they can even be repositioned...
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On March 31 2010 09:42 adelarge wrote:
Don't the spore crawlers have the exact same range as turrets and cannons? And they can even be repositioned...
They do cost +50 gold for the drone as well. Not to mention lost mining time/replacing the drone costs.
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I hate banshees almost as much as I hate upgraded hellions, goddammit why are they buffed T_T. Spore crawlers are such a shitty counter to them reducing the cost won't affect it much, what needs to be buffed is the range (as noted above). I can put 4 spore crawlers in my base and banshees will STILL be able to pick off key tech structures or harass my mineral lines... and that's not to mention as banshee numbers begin to build they tear threw spores simply because they are only being fired at one by one.
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Actually the static defense ranges are the same as in BW, but the differences with BW are that the main buildings are bigger and units in general have longer ranges.
Main buildings are 5x5 tiles in SC2, compared to 4x3 in BW. Making them 4x4 would improve this a lot.
BW range: Dragoons 4+2, Marines 4+1, Hydras 4+1, Wraiths 5, Scouts 4, Mutas 3.
SC2 range: Stalkers 6, Marauders 6, Hydras 5+1, Banshees 6, Void Rays 7, Mutas 3.
So only the zerg main air unit has the same range, and toss ranged(but it no longer requires a range upgrade).
I don't consider, Banshees and Marauders as equivalents to Wraiths and Marines, I'm just listing common ranged units for each race.
Just increasing the static defense range would probably solve the issue, but it would also affect their power against an assault and the area they cover vs drops(while maps already have a smaller playable area).
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It's nice to see static d being looked at but Im a bit worried.
If a terran can turtle up with judicious use of missile turrets and seiged tanks he can basically just mass thors and I can't stop him.
Once he has a fair bit of them he can just come out and destroy any unit combination I have at such a cost effective ratio that it doesn't matter if I have nearly twice the bases running.
Muta harass was the only way I had of keeping a Terran honest about this sort of crap but with buffed turrets and now buffed thors I don't see a way of stopping this sort of play. Its too cost effective for him to turtle, and then he comes out with a 1 unit army that is again so cost effective it doesn't matter I might have had 1-2 extra expansions running the entire time.
If I can't harass I just don't see anyway to keep him from timing his push to flatten me... with a one unit (oh sorry, 2 because of course repairing scvs should be with the thors) type army.
Oh well, I guess I can go back to the fun of ZvZ and using queens as my static D because spore colonies have the range of a burrowed roach still. D=
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Yay Psi Storm Nerf.
And Yay spine crawler buff.
Decent patch all around.
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On March 31 2010 09:49 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Still no range buff for Stalkers eh? I wonder why nobody has brought this up yet, it's all they need to be worthwhile backbone/harassment shutdown units that they're supposed to be
Completely agree...
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On March 31 2010 09:46 Synwave wrote:
It's nice to see static d being looked at but Im a bit worried.
If a terran can turtle up with judicious use of missile turrets and seiged tanks he can basically just mass thors and I can't stop him.
Once he has a fair bit of them he can just come out and destroy any unit combination I have at such a cost effective ratio that it doesn't matter if I have nearly twice the bases running.
Muta harass was the only way I had of keeping a Terran honest about this sort of crap but with buffed turrets and now buffed thors I don't see a way of stopping this sort of play. Its too cost effective for him to turtle, and then he comes out with a 1 unit army that is again so cost effective it doesn't matter I might have had 1-2 extra expansions running the entire time.
If I can't harass I just don't see anyway to keep him from timing his push to flatten me... with a one unit (oh sorry, 2 because of course repairing scvs should be with the thors) type army.
Oh well, I guess I can go back to the fun of ZvZ and using queens as my static D because spore colonies have the range of a burrowed roach still. D=
Next time try to use lings, they eat thors for breakfast (another effective units include roaches and broodlords). Or do they get killed by the mighty scvs or what lol?
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On March 31 2010 09:54 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 09:49 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Still no range buff for Stalkers eh? I wonder why nobody has brought this up yet, it's all they need to be worthwhile backbone/harassment shutdown units that they're supposed to be Completely agree...
If anything they are going to be nerfed again now that they are making up a large part of protoss army i've seen people do nothing but mass them and using blink to cut off units. A range upgrade would just encourage this more.
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EPT
