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On March 31 2010 06:43 TSL-Lore wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 31 2010 06:37 Skyze wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 06:17 TerranUp16 wrote:On March 31 2010 04:58 bendez wrote:Viking buff was not enough to make you guys stop bitching about muta, so blizzard throws another bone, rather than working on REAL issues like zerg unit diversity, infestor range/abilities, etc. Yep.. GG. Vikings alone were never a viable push-out counter to Mutas- Zerg could out-produce Terran easily in this respect and this then requires Terran to support Vikings in open-field with some serious ground to air. My main observation was that good Zergs were able to leverage the weakness of Turrets in general and the slow nature of Thors (and remember that even Vikings are relatively slow) to keep Terran contained to 2-3 bases at most until building a critical amount of ground to air and Turrets was built-up and/or Ravens came out with Point Defense and/or Seeker to support the Vikings. Basically what we have now is that a respectable Turret defense is relatively cheaper now (because of increased DPS Terrans don't need to get quite so many Turrets, particularly if they complement the new damage with Hi-Sec and Building Armor) and Thors enforce more of a timing window on the Muta harass like Vessels did (except Thors are more like an extremely expensive Goliath/Vessel hybrid that is extremely slow- but they should allow you to push out with your main force and lighten the burden of Vikings to defend that and everything else). On March 31 2010 05:01 Crisium wrote:Spines take out Hellions in 4 hits instead of 5. And the higher DPS helps. Thanks for catching that- for some reason I keep thinking of Hellions as having 80hp (ala Vultures) instead of 90hp. @Skyze You've got plenty of tools to deal with mass Marauders. The Baneling buff last patch made those really viable against them (I've first-hand observed as many a Marauder-massing Terran has had his attack force consistently whittled down every single time he tried to move out by Banelings) and of course Hydralisks have always been great against Marauders. Not to mention smart incorporation of Mutalisks into your main forces (not as an A-move unit but rather as an in-battle harass unit ala Dark Templar used in the midst of major battles). I think theres a difference when you play top level terrans.. They dont fall for baneling busts, or any muta harassment. Hydras die in seconds to MMM, and you may get one or two banelings to go off but any terran who can micro can just slow them with the incredibly lame marauder slow, and move back and take minimal damage. Mutas fail to good terrans who dont allow for easy harass, combined with the new patch doing major buffs to turrets+thor, aka mutas will be almost useless unless they arent prepared (which good terrans will be) I am talking about top 5 platinum terrans, thats who ive been facing lately, they just dominate me, and its not by skill, cause I take their "harasses" with ease and everything.. I actually LOVE when terrans go hellions, it means a big delay til the MMM gayness comes, so I usually win those games. But marauders + medivacs timing push = too much. I know exactly what you mean, Skyze. I'm really relieved when i see hellion or viking or banshee harass because I think 'awesome, i can win this game.' But when they stay in their base, turtling up, I'm like "oh no.. MMM will just come out and pwn me this game'
Lore, for example, didnt you own me last night too? I believe you were terran.. lol Maybe not, I did lost afew ZvZ last night too =[
edit: yah, you were Z.. I forget who won, but probably you.. I played so bad last night after like 5 frustrating losses to marauders =/
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Mutas still going to rock my world (Aiur).
Thank god for the cannon buff though.
Banshee buff seems weird as they are already an extremely good unit.
Nice Thor buff  .
Thats my first impressions, havent tried it out yet ofc.
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Wow, I'm so pumped about the Thor buff. I'm going to straight up mech so hard now.
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On March 31 2010 06:40 iounas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 06:35 -orb- wrote:
So let me get this straight... terran now has splash anti-air to deal with mutas.
Protoss, on the other hand, still doesn't have splash anti-air, and the only AoE we had (storm) has now been nerfed making it even harder to deal with mutas.
What the fuck blizzard? lol.. change race before its too late.. Blizz will continue to nerf everything protoss has again and again and again..
Totally agree, what is wrong with these guys LOL
I've thought I'd be always loyal to Protoss but now I win a hundred times more with Zerg, I mean what the hell...
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On March 31 2010 06:46 GoDannY wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 06:40 iounas wrote:On March 31 2010 06:35 -orb- wrote:
So let me get this straight... terran now has splash anti-air to deal with mutas.
Protoss, on the other hand, still doesn't have splash anti-air, and the only AoE we had (storm) has now been nerfed making it even harder to deal with mutas.
What the fuck blizzard? lol.. change race before its too late.. Blizz will continue to nerf everything protoss has again and again and again.. Totally agree, what is wrong with these guys LOL I've thought I'd be always loyal to Protoss but now I win a hundred times more with Zerg, I mean what the hell...
maybe your better with zerg! n__n ever think that was the solution, not that protoss was weak? i started winning more when i went from zerg to toss.
storm patch wont affect too much, it will smooth things out, and HEY there's colossus!
also archons splash air
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im hardly a good player, but all this "ZOMG NERFED STORM" stuff... now you know how us T's felt with EMP =)
On March 26 2010 08:54 floor exercise wrote:
+ EMP Round radius decreased from 3 to 2.
and everyone said that would destroy the TvP line up as terran would have no counter any more...
apparently they still did just fine post patch...
i used to do just fine EMP'ing the P army, now i actually have to slow down and take notice of which parts im targeting, instead of just spamming EMP in their general direction, so im sorry if i feel 0 sympathy to the all the P players out there, hopefully this will do the same for HT's and storm
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On March 31 2010 06:18 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 05:22 Skyze wrote:
bleh. This is a bad patch IMO, done nothing to stop marauders owning everything a zerg has in first 15 minutes.. Terran is too strong, any good terran wont fall for the "baneling bust" and then just send in their MMM to dominate everything.. I doubt sunkens will be changed enough to actually do any damage to MMM.
Its like BW, cept M&M dont take any damage from sunkens... so theres no way to stop the mid-game push. They dont even need tanks, cause marauders are like a walking tank with slow agree with this. If you try and cut your losses and retreat from MnM you lose it all. If MnM tries to cut his losses and retreat he kites you into nothing as he retreats or you just let him get away to lick his wounds. Lings are supposed to counter marauders but they really don't, the marauders have too much Hp even if you sruround them, the reinforcements arrive before you finish them off and like I said you can't retreat at this point because you'll get slowed and raped by stim if you try.
This is the same thoughts I've been having, zerg has to flat out win it's battles or terran just keeps getting bigger, marauders are simply too strong vs all other T1, I'd say it's time they get a small HP nerf and an attack speed nerf. That and/or nerf roaches+buff lings...
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I think the health increase for Banshees is due tot he fact that cannons now will have more life and spore crawlers are cheaper so there will be more of them, therefore Banshees wont be able to rely on their cloak as much.
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A little surprised at the dislike for this patch, everybody wanted static D buffed and it certainly was. This might even fix z vs z, we'll see.
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All in all I like it, even though as someone said, the cost of roach upgrade should go down at the same phase as it is getting worse.
Psi Storm nerf, probably necessary due to it's spammability, but I think this might be alittle too much, maybe just making it slightly slightly better from here would be enough.
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On March 31 2010 06:50 Shiladie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 06:18 CharlieMurphy wrote:On March 31 2010 05:22 Skyze wrote:
bleh. This is a bad patch IMO, done nothing to stop marauders owning everything a zerg has in first 15 minutes.. Terran is too strong, any good terran wont fall for the "baneling bust" and then just send in their MMM to dominate everything.. I doubt sunkens will be changed enough to actually do any damage to MMM.
Its like BW, cept M&M dont take any damage from sunkens... so theres no way to stop the mid-game push. They dont even need tanks, cause marauders are like a walking tank with slow agree with this. If you try and cut your losses and retreat from MnM you lose it all. If MnM tries to cut his losses and retreat he kites you into nothing as he retreats or you just let him get away to lick his wounds. Lings are supposed to counter marauders but they really don't, the marauders have too much Hp even if you sruround them, the reinforcements arrive before you finish them off and like I said you can't retreat at this point because you'll get slowed and raped by stim if you try. This is the same thoughts I've been having, zerg has to flat out win it's battles or terran just keeps getting bigger, marauders are simply too strong vs all other T1, I'd say it's time they get a small HP nerf and an attack speed nerf. That and/or nerf roaches+buff lings...
I actually think thats the biggest problem in SC2 (what SpoR said), You basically cant retreat from battles in SC2.. Theres so many units that are just either too slow, or units like the marauders which slow you down.. Even like roaches vs stalkers/sentries, you cant run because the roaches are too slow (without upgrade, but even with upgrade i thnk its the same) and they just own you before you can retreat.. Air units are even worse, altho I like that in a way because it means my mutas can dominate like 5 phoenix's when they start running, but it should be fixed imo.
You basically have to commit to attacking in SC2, because you cant retreat. That is probably why we are seeing so many people just sitting in their base massing armies, you cant even really pick off one unit and run back micro because running away doesnt work.
The only major design flaw I see so far in SC2.
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On March 31 2010 06:59 Skyze wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 06:50 Shiladie wrote:On March 31 2010 06:18 CharlieMurphy wrote:On March 31 2010 05:22 Skyze wrote:
bleh. This is a bad patch IMO, done nothing to stop marauders owning everything a zerg has in first 15 minutes.. Terran is too strong, any good terran wont fall for the "baneling bust" and then just send in their MMM to dominate everything.. I doubt sunkens will be changed enough to actually do any damage to MMM.
Its like BW, cept M&M dont take any damage from sunkens... so theres no way to stop the mid-game push. They dont even need tanks, cause marauders are like a walking tank with slow agree with this. If you try and cut your losses and retreat from MnM you lose it all. If MnM tries to cut his losses and retreat he kites you into nothing as he retreats or you just let him get away to lick his wounds. Lings are supposed to counter marauders but they really don't, the marauders have too much Hp even if you sruround them, the reinforcements arrive before you finish them off and like I said you can't retreat at this point because you'll get slowed and raped by stim if you try. This is the same thoughts I've been having, zerg has to flat out win it's battles or terran just keeps getting bigger, marauders are simply too strong vs all other T1, I'd say it's time they get a small HP nerf and an attack speed nerf. That and/or nerf roaches+buff lings... I actually think thats the biggest problem in SC2 (what SpoR said), You basically cant retreat from battles in SC2.. Theres so many units that are just either too slow, or units like the marauders which slow you down.. Even like roaches vs stalkers/sentries, you cant run because the roaches are too slow (without upgrade, but even with upgrade i thnk its the same) and they just own you before you can retreat.. Air units are even worse, altho I like that in a way because it means my mutas can dominate like 5 phoenix's when they start running, but it should be fixed imo. You basically have to commit to attacking in SC2, because you cant retreat. That is probably why we are seeing so many people just sitting in their base massing armies, you cant even really pick off one unit and run back micro because running away doesnt work. The only major design flaw I see so far in SC2.
uh, yes you can. you just, turn around and run. unless you were completely dominated by 36 marauders, you're gonna be able to get away.
muta did the same attack shit while it runs thing in BW, you just gotta get away first.
you dont HAVE to commit by any stretch of the imagination.
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Uh, Psi Storm is definitely 43.75% less area than it was before, not 56.25% >.> That's the area it currently does (i.e. the area that is "left") Old area was ~12.5, new area is ~7.07. You can tell what percent of its old area it retains by just eye-balling it.
Also, I don't think the EMP nerf is exactly comparable to the Psi Storm nerf; before, EMP could deal 2800 total damage to shields in a single shot easily (although average seemed to hover around 2000). After the nerf, it can still do 1200 damage to shields quite easily (in fact, it caps out even easier, since you require a smaller radius to max out the damage). Psi Storm could only hit a maximum of around 1000 damage overall, and only if units were perfectly clumped, and only over time. Now, it's maximum is around 560 damage, still over time.
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On March 31 2010 07:02 mOnion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2010 06:59 Skyze wrote:On March 31 2010 06:50 Shiladie wrote:On March 31 2010 06:18 CharlieMurphy wrote:On March 31 2010 05:22 Skyze wrote:
bleh. This is a bad patch IMO, done nothing to stop marauders owning everything a zerg has in first 15 minutes.. Terran is too strong, any good terran wont fall for the "baneling bust" and then just send in their MMM to dominate everything.. I doubt sunkens will be changed enough to actually do any damage to MMM.
Its like BW, cept M&M dont take any damage from sunkens... so theres no way to stop the mid-game push. They dont even need tanks, cause marauders are like a walking tank with slow agree with this. If you try and cut your losses and retreat from MnM you lose it all. If MnM tries to cut his losses and retreat he kites you into nothing as he retreats or you just let him get away to lick his wounds. Lings are supposed to counter marauders but they really don't, the marauders have too much Hp even if you sruround them, the reinforcements arrive before you finish them off and like I said you can't retreat at this point because you'll get slowed and raped by stim if you try. This is the same thoughts I've been having, zerg has to flat out win it's battles or terran just keeps getting bigger, marauders are simply too strong vs all other T1, I'd say it's time they get a small HP nerf and an attack speed nerf. That and/or nerf roaches+buff lings... I actually think thats the biggest problem in SC2 (what SpoR said), You basically cant retreat from battles in SC2.. Theres so many units that are just either too slow, or units like the marauders which slow you down.. Even like roaches vs stalkers/sentries, you cant run because the roaches are too slow (without upgrade, but even with upgrade i thnk its the same) and they just own you before you can retreat.. Air units are even worse, altho I like that in a way because it means my mutas can dominate like 5 phoenix's when they start running, but it should be fixed imo. You basically have to commit to attacking in SC2, because you cant retreat. That is probably why we are seeing so many people just sitting in their base massing armies, you cant even really pick off one unit and run back micro because running away doesnt work. The only major design flaw I see so far in SC2. uh, yes you can. you just, turn around and run. unless you were completely dominated by 36 marauders, you're gonna be able to get away. muta did the same attack shit while it runs thing in BW, you just gotta get away first. you dont HAVE to commit by any stretch of the imagination.
uhh. Go try it. Have 5 roaches vs 5sentry/5stalker, try picking off one sentry then running away.. Good luck getting even 1 roach alive when you get back to your base.
Same with roach vs roach even. and obviously Marauders
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I play terran.
I don't know what it is.
I haven't won a single game after this patch.
Not. One. Single. Game.
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I agree, when attacking a P or T army as Z, I always feel like I have to commit to winning the battle or I will simply lose the game right after. With M&M (and P, if you have collosi/sentries) it is a lot easier to disengage your army from an attack.
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terran got buffed wtf you talking about?
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After this patch I've been getting lag spikes...like the game will just hang for a bit and then everything will zoom at super speed for a second. Makes it impossible to get some timings right sometimes (really annoying when it does it right before the first pylon finishes, or right before an early probe finishes).
Anyone else experiencing this? I know I saw it on a stream before the patch, but had never actually experienced it, and now it's happening 3 times per game after the patch.
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On March 31 2010 06:27 Tdelamay wrote:
The banshee is a base raiding unit. Now that static defense is better, it will be harder for banshee to do what they did, so they buffed her health by 10 hp. Which is okay. I don't think a banshee can take down a photon cannon.
fuck i'd hope a photon cannon could take down 2 banshies... ffs
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aw i kinda liked how storm was before. if anything, they should just increase the duration by one second. it rapes when it deals the damage quick, so with a longer timer at least itll give faster reactionists a chance to avoid the full force
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EPT
