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On March 27 2010 14:48 GeMicles wrote:
why the toss nerfs? 100 gas for observers!!!????
Of all the changes, this one makes some of the most sense. Observers are already by far the least expensive detection unit, and to top it off they're probably the best at doing their job since they're invisible.
Protoss players are just spoiled with the expectations that have carried over from SC1, but this is not SC1.
As an aside, a DotA patch a couple versions ago included huge nerfs to map control abilities and items. The result was that the map was more filled with fog of war and become a scary place again, and this rewarded the player who is better able to think on his feet and adapt to a dynamic environment (Which is arguably the "better" player). I'm predicting this will do something similar for Protoss players.
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On March 27 2010 10:51 Kennigit wrote:
Yeah gonna make this happen in the next few days. Mora, such a visionary (and a hater).
It's a good idea, it really helped liquid poker when they split up the forums into low, medium and high stakes where it's moderated and if you aren't playing the stakes you can get a forum ban. Makes the discussion much more relevant.
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On March 27 2010 14:54 IdrA wrote:
well not sure about the other subgroups but the only thing that would come of embracing the war3 players on the us server would be bringing back 30 second warpgates and buffing lings.
Oh, IdrA, don't be such a hypocrite you cheesey protoss you! =) (loved that KOTBH game 3 build btw)
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On March 27 2010 10:39 Mora wrote:
How long does it take to read 29 pages of feedback? How many people are going to want to read it with their own eyes to limit inherent mis-interpretation?
Let's say 10 devs want to read such a thread. $20/hour per dev (rough average estimate), and 2 hours to read 29 pages (under-estimate, to be honest). there are, 10? key forums to sift through.
We just spent $4000. (and pushed back the work that those devs would otherwise be doing).
The more time goes on, the more i think like a producer. As a developer, i wish there was somewhere i could go where i wouldn't have to sift through 29 pages of knee-jerk reactions for the few posters who (might) have some insight into your game.
I would recommend having an experts forum where you would [perhaps] let everyone read the thread, but only allow certain posters access to post. The thought of having a place where posters like Naz, FA, Smuft, Eri etc. would debate their thoughts for my eyes to see without 29 pages of shit to find it makes me want to cream myself.
Why would they read a forum for their opinion when they can watch recordeds of all the high ranked players playing. What high rank players do is much more important than what high rank players say.
That's also why they go off their internal data more than what people post on various forums.
Doing something like Arenajunkies wouldn't be bad but you place too much importance to what people post on forums. Especially this site where post count seems to be many people's measure of how important you are and how important what you say is.
Insane is spot on everything he has said.
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anyone have an issue where they cant choose the game type etc. after patch 6? Like all it says is I have 3v3 placements to do and 1v1 etc. isn't even showing up and I cant start a game. Really annoying.
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Let's say 10 devs want to read such a thread. $20/hour per dev (rough average estimate), and 2 hours to read 29 pages (under-estimate, to be honest). there are, 10? key forums to sift through.
We just spent $4000. (and pushed back the work that those devs would otherwise be doing).
The more time goes on, the more i think like a producer. As a developer, i wish there was somewhere i could go where i wouldn't have to sift through 29 pages of knee-jerk reactions for the few posters who (might) have some insight into your game.
I would recommend having an experts forum where you would [perhaps] let everyone read the thread, but only allow certain posters access to post. The thought of having a place where posters like Naz, FA, Smuft, Eri etc. would debate their thoughts for my eyes to see without 29 pages of shit to find it makes me want to cream myself.
I can help a bit here, I'm pretty sure this is how blizzard does it. As you say, paying developers a LOT more than $20 an hour (standard commission rates for a designer are around 30-50 an hour for senior positions, which presumably almost all of blizzard's design team occupy) to browse feedback threads is a bit idiotic .So, blizzard have what they call 'community managers'- guys like naethra and co for WoW, presumably they have similar blues for starcraft. These guys are paid at probably a far lower rate, and pretty much only browse and work with the forums. Being dedicated experts, I would guess they collate and sift the data as well as moderating, forwarding on the condensed reports to the dev teams. I would not be surprised if blizzard has a few ghosts who pretty much trawl forums like this as well, perhaps it's the same people. so the devs get all the info they need, without putting up with the walls of blah blah blah that intersperse feedback.
Of course I could be totally wrong, but as a games designer in training and having managed projects myself, this is how I would do it, and there's evidence that it's how blizzard does it as well.
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So im enjoying the stalker buff, trying to use them in all my match ups now and be aggressive with blink
so far they are turning out to be pretty fun
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The view profile when i right click on opponents name at the end of the game seems to be greyed out.
this is even mroe fucking annoying than having to add them as friends. Is it just me or is the 'feature' not functional yet
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Russian Federation481 Posts
On March 27 2010 17:57 Wretched wrote:
The view profile when i right click on opponents name at the end of the game seems to be greyed out.
this is even mroe fucking annoying than having to add them as friends. Is it just me or is the 'feature' not functional yet
It's not just you. Seems like it doesn't work for everyone.
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On March 27 2010 12:10 ComradeDover wrote:
DTs are harder to get because they now 1-shot the newly nerfed SCVs. DTs/HTs are now given the light type to encourage anti-light units (hellion, reaper, etc) which up until now are used only against early game units or to worker harass. So in order to encourage an even stronger counter to the unused DT, you make it even less used and more expensive? You make no sense, if anything more DT play should be encourage (as it's nearly extinct in the higher leagues).
And yes, DT used to one shot drones and probes and that was never a problem, by the time DTs were out everyone had detection. For Terrans its even less of a problem since they have detection within the few couple of minutes due to Orbital command.
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On March 27 2010 10:55 Zeke50100 wrote:
(which outweigh the increased gas cost of the Tech Lab)
It went from 50 to 25, how is that an increase?
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On March 27 2010 15:03 ComradeDover wrote:
As an aside, a DotA patch a couple versions ago included huge nerfs to map control abilities and items. The result was that the map was more filled with fog of war and become a scary place again, and this rewarded the player who is better able to think on his feet and adapt to a dynamic environment (Which is arguably the "better" player). I'm predicting this will do something similar for Protoss players.
It would just make protoss 25 min and 25 gas poorer.
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On March 27 2010 19:58 lololol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2010 10:55 Zeke50100 wrote:
(which outweigh the increased gas cost of the Tech Lab) It went from 50 to 25, how is that an increase?
Whoops, my bad, I read it wrong o.0
In that case, Terran is even more...less gas-intensive than I thought XD At least, compared to pre-patch. Thanks for pointing that out!
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On March 27 2010 09:46 Kennigit wrote:
Guh so much useless bullshit in this thread.
It's probably get worse as more and more players start posting. How many admins manage the forum btw?
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I agree with most of the stuff in this batch.
The reactor increased build time was good, I was winning too many games just going 2 rax, 1 with tech lab and 1 with reactor.
Roach regen debuff is good in addition to the increased baneling damage.
Stalkers needed to be buffed, thats good. DT nerf confuses me, now it's easier for me to crush protoss that rush for dts.
The one thing I hate about this patch:
The nerf to scvs
How could it possibly to fair that I need freaking 3 scv's to build a barracks?
I would be fine with reducing the attack speed, but reduced hp? So I can't wall, cause then I get harassed by the scouting probe, I can't make marines as fast?
They expect to be encouraging mech play by making it harder to wall?
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hey guys, i was thinking about SCV getting 45 HP, I think it's a dumb thing, because terran has much less workers than any races : protoss gets so many probes with Chrono Boost, Zerg gets so many drones with spawn larvas ability. Ok, there is the Mule, but it is limited in time, even if a Mule represents 6 workers, it dies quite fast. Giving now 45 HP to SCV gives to terran players a much harder task to micro them in case of run-by or something.. Some SCV dies, and the terran is far behind, because he has less workers, assuming the terran use everytime his CC's mana for Mule/Scan, he's not able to recover his delay.... what do you think about it?
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^ when you bring something like a hellions for a run-by kind of doubt 10, 45 or 60hp makes a difference.
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I see a lot of changes here, but still nothing to change the currently boring and repetitive strategies that are seen in SC2. T1/1.5 as much as you can as fast as you can, 15 minutes is a long game - sorry but this is not StarCraft, or for that matter fun. You are forced to use a certain opening for each race and attempting to try any variations as such is not possible. Every game I win is a game won using a cookie-cutter opening that everyone conforms to. I tried today 5 games in a row to use a different opening, and promptly received losses for doing so. First game going cookie cutter after this, 6 minute win. I'm glad they are at least making sizable changes right now, but something needs to be done to make more than one opening truly viable.
Even when a race seems to have two openings available it really doesn't, if you are in ZvZ and try to go Zerglings to Mutalisk you will A. Have multiple hydras ready to great you, or B. your opponent will have so many roaches you can't possible stop his attack in time with 4-5 Mutalisk. The only way is to go the same boring Roach > Hydra > Infestor > Mutalisk build that is forced on ever Zerg player. You try to tech Hydras vs Roaches, Roaches still win.
The only long games I've ever seen are on Twilight Fortress and even at 25 minutes in, there is still usually one player massing 1.5 to the maximum amount possible. And guess what? It beats the T3 that the other team has.
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On March 28 2010 03:49 OreoBoi wrote:
I agree with most of the stuff in this batch.
The reactor increased build time was good, I was winning too many games just going 2 rax, 1 with tech lab and 1 with reactor.
Were you playing against copper level opponents? It's really easy to hold that off. I'm glad you think reactor nerf is good, because not only does it take forever to build, but my marines come out WAY slower against zerg. So basically off 2 hatch he can make more units that I can pump out marines AND scvs off 4 rax. That's really fair.
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Russian Federation85 Posts
There's one point which makes no sense for me. Why did they give High Templar and Dark Templar the armor light as additional but didn't add the armor light to the Ghost?
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EPT
