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On March 27 2010 07:39 Insane wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2010 06:56 Mora wrote:On March 27 2010 06:36 Insane wrote:On March 27 2010 06:33 Mora wrote:
DTs were not nerfed that hard. (their intended use isn't to go up against large armies that can detect them. Hellions are better vs them now... OH NOES)
DT Rushing was nerfed.
Expoing off of fast DT Tech was nerfed (and wasn't viable to begin with).
honestly, why all the griping? Why are you being so defensive about DTs and their building being nerfed? It's not a huge nerf to DTs perhaps, but they were already not very good it seemed, so people are justifiably wondering why they were nerfed. No, it probably won't make a big difference for Protoss, but I don't see why you are so mad about everyone complaining about it. It's just context. Complaints about banelings i understand; marines, core reactors - sure; scv's - yep. I think it's a little soon to be going up in arms about these things, but i can understand where people are coming from. Hell, i'd even be ok with people complaining that DTs didn't get a buff. But a nerf that's obviously aimed at DT rushing that has no effect on the caliber of players like the ones on this forum, i'm not patient with. This is the forum blizzard should go to for decent feedback, and the shit that's spewing from this thread should make them inclined to never come back. I probably shouldn't get as annoyed as i do, but i guess i can't help it. I've toted around (like an idiot) to a whole bunch of people about how great the SC community is because they're reasonable and thought-out (if also elitist). It's been a desperate and secret hope that the community might bleed into Relic's communities to provide a little stability and sanity. It appears that my glasses were rose-tinted. The SC(2) community is just as repulsive as the rest of gaming communities. Don't worry, if i'm asked again if Blizzard should peruse these forums, my stance will have changed. There are plenty of currently high level players who post here and there is plenty of good analysis of the patch, too. If you seriously thought everyone in the SC community was a great poster, then your glasses were indeed tinted. If you compare the average quality of posts here to the posts on Bnet forums, then I think we're doing a lot better overall. Gaming communities seem to produce a high quantity of noise-signal ratio in general, but if you pay attention to certain players then there's definitely a lot of valuable feedback posted here. It's not an easy task to get rid of all the 'lower-quality' posters, because a lot of them are players who are not great at the game, but are genuinely trying to give productive feedback about it. Banning them engenders a lot of ill-will, and despite the site perhaps being known as elitist compared to many, it's not really my personal wish that TL is known as "that site with a bunch of elitist assholes". Also keep in mind, a good portion of the good posters today were not that way at one point  Also people use a lot of hyperbole to prove points, like saying "X is totally useless and should never ever be gotten" when in actuality a lot of time what they're saying is "X should be buffed". The former statement may not be true, but the latter may very well be true.
How long does it take to read 29 pages of feedback? How many people are going to want to read it with their own eyes to limit inherent mis-interpretation?
Let's say 10 devs want to read such a thread. $20/hour per dev (rough average estimate), and 2 hours to read 29 pages (under-estimate, to be honest). there are, 10? key forums to sift through.
We just spent $4000. (and pushed back the work that those devs would otherwise be doing).
The more time goes on, the more i think like a producer. As a developer, i wish there was somewhere i could go where i wouldn't have to sift through 29 pages of knee-jerk reactions for the few posters who (might) have some insight into your game.
I would recommend having an experts forum where you would [perhaps] let everyone read the thread, but only allow certain posters access to post. The thought of having a place where posters like Naz, FA, Smuft, Eri etc. would debate their thoughts for my eyes to see without 29 pages of shit to find it makes me want to cream myself.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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Experts forum as ready-only with educated and interesting discussion. I would love it..
Or simply just an article with collected opinions of good players? Makes more sense.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Yeah gonna make this happen in the next few days. Mora, such a visionary (and a hater).
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Of course, I'd love to have the job of reading TL for $20 an hour :D
I agree with the Experts forums; I've seen other forums (pretty big ones, not tiny fan-forums) do similar things with restricted access. All members can read it, but only a select few can actually post. Shooting a PM with your thoughts (and valid reasoning) can get your thought "forwarded" to the topic, or give you access (either temporary or permanent) to the area.
Anyway, with the decreased Gas cost for both the Ghost and Viking (which outweigh the increased gas cost of the Tech Lab), will gas-intensive units like the Siege Tank be produced more often? Many times, I see the "it costs too much gas" complaint to justify the neglect of what I think is a pretty awesome unit (in a different way than it was in SC1).
There's still the 3 Supply rather than the 2, but there's always Supply Drop (which isn't terribad) and the fact that the Immortal (a powerful anti-armor unit, along with a decent anti-light attack, similar to the tank) costs 4 Supply, comes from a very commonly used building, and yet doesn't receive as many tanks.
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I liked the cost changes for Viking and Ghost....but dude..
The Terran nerfs is just horrible..
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question
o Roach
+ Burrowed regeneration rate decreased from 10 to 5.
+ Upgraded burrowed regeneration bonus decreased from +20 to +10.
I don't quite understand. If you have the regen upgrade and you burrow, how fast do you regen? is it 20?
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I guess that means no more marine rushes, it really did not need to be debuffed that much.
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Sigh... another proxy death. Is this thing even possible to stop now?
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On March 27 2010 10:39 Mora wrote:
I would recommend having an experts forum where you would [perhaps] let everyone read the thread, but only allow certain posters access to post. The thought of having a place where posters like Naz, FA, Smuft, Eri etc. would debate their thoughts for my eyes to see without 29 pages of shit to find it makes me want to cream myself.
Holy god this is a great idea. Kennegit, glad to hear this is going to get implemented.
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
On March 27 2010 09:16 MorroW wrote:
this patch was horrible
i expect them to release a new patch really quickly after seeing the stats go z100% tp 0% winratio
id be z user right now if zvz wasnt so broken and tvt not so brilliant
why change race and not making urs better?
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This isn't as bad as the whining in this thread is making it seem. DTs are harder to get because they now 1-shot the newly nerfed SCVs. DTs/HTs are now given the light type to encourage anti-light units (hellion, reaper, etc) which up until now are used only against early game units or to worker harass. Bunkers were made better to encourage their use. Reactors were nerfed because they were the deal of a century before. Same with observers, which were disproportionately cheap detection and scouting compared to what the other races had to spend. Every change here makes perfect sense to me.
This isn't a simple matter of "X is too good, so we'll nerf it!". None of these changes sit on their own on an island--All these changes work in conjunction. Blizz isn't retarded, they're Jedi masters playing 3-layered chess several moves ahead of all of us. If we want to be amateur game designers and contemplate balance and the potential effects of changes, we need to think like designers rather than like gamers.
On March 27 2010 10:39 Mora wrote:
I would recommend having an experts forum where you would [perhaps] let everyone read the thread, but only allow certain posters access to post. The thought of having a place where posters like Naz, FA, Smuft, Eri etc. would debate their thoughts for my eyes to see without 29 pages of shit to find it makes me want to cream myself.
Please make this happen.
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Is it just me, or does the 'view profile' button after the game is over, and you right click on the persons name, not work?
I thought it might be because they aren't in a specific ladder yet, and still doing qualification matches, but then I added them to friends, and looked at their profiles that way, and they are in ladders...
I can see the 'view profile' button, but it doesn't light up like the others, and I can't click it.
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On March 27 2010 12:26 fams wrote:
Is it just me, or does the 'view profile' button after the game is over, and you right click on the persons name, not work?
I thought it might be because they aren't in a specific ladder yet, and still doing qualification matches, but then I added them to friends, and looked at their profiles that way, and they are in ladders...
I can see the 'view profile' button, but it doesn't light up like the others, and I can't click it.
yep, seems broken for me and im assuming everyone else as well.
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I like the idea of an experts forum, but I think that non-experts should be able to post on it too, with restrictions, such as non-experts can post a thread but it doesn't show up until it is reviewed by an admin, so then, for example, if a lower level platinum player such as myself has an interesting idea or thought and makes a high-quality thread on it, then if admins approve it is posted and can be discussed by the experts. Only a select few threads would need to be approved, and since its only new threads, not posts, that are being approved it would take very little time to review a thread. Also, seeing a tl-member who isn't as well known post a high-quality thread which is actually discussed by experts would motivate tl-members to post high-quality threads. What do you think about this idea?
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Expert forum, eh? Good idea but...
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On March 27 2010 11:38 CharlieMurphy wrote:question Show nested quote +
o Roach
+ Burrowed regeneration rate decreased from 10 to 5.
+ Upgraded burrowed regeneration bonus decreased from +20 to +10.
I don't quite understand. If you have the regen upgrade and you burrow, how fast do you regen? is it 20?
5 + 10 = 15
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What would the requirements be for such an expert forum? A lot of the best players (on NA server at least) are relatively unknown to the TL community, which mainly recognizes former top SC players and its own members, disregarding the large amount of pro players from other games, as well as random people, who are currently doing very well on the ladder. I would like to hear the comments of these people as well, some even more than people like smurft and those other guys that one poster mentioned.
TL being elitist is fine, but being simply "TL-ist" or "SC-ist" and discriminating not based on skill, but based on how long people have been with TL or based on what game you played before SC2 is unacceptable and will lead to a lowering in the quality of information available on the site.
Welcome new/unknown top players with open arms and value their insight and feedback. After all, the fact that they haven't been a part of your community for a long time doesn't stop them from kicking your ass at SC2 ^^.
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why the toss nerfs? 100 gas for observers!!!???? nice stalker buff though. about freakin time.
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On March 27 2010 14:35 LF9 wrote:
What would the requirements be for such an expert forum? A lot of the best players (on NA server at least) are relatively unknown to the TL community, which mainly recognizes former top SC players and its own members, disregarding the large amount of pro players from other games, as well as random people, who are currently doing very well on the ladder. I would like to hear the comments of these people as well, some even more than people like smurft and those other guys that one poster mentioned.
TL being elitist is fine, but being simply "TL-ist" or "SC-ist" and discriminating not based on skill, but based on how long people have been with TL or based on what game you played before SC2 is unacceptable and will lead to a lowering in the quality of information available on the site.
Welcome new/unknown top players with open arms and value their insight and feedback. After all, the fact that they haven't been a part of your community for a long time doesn't stop them from kicking your ass at SC2 ^^.
well not sure about the other subgroups but the only thing that would come of embracing the war3 players on the us server would be bringing back 30 second warpgates and buffing lings.
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EPT
