- In all games each player is only able to record their own data, unless both players agree otherwise in the lobby
- tournament casters can create server replays that contain all data, but which are enchrypted and only can be replayed on sc2 installations with the right key installed
- it is the tournaments hosts responsibilty to prevent leaks, a question of reputation
- cast replays can be created, from server and from player replays, that only show what the caster/commentator decided to show
- an audiotrack for cast replays would be a nice bonus
- directly creating video files/streams (theora is good for both, and also license free) from cast replays would be a nice bonus too
Protecting replays with the fog of war - Page 5
Forum Index > SC2 General |
imbecile
563 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17045 Posts
The simplest solution is that it's not the player's client that's saving the replay but the server that is sending the replay to both participants after the game is over (during the post-battle screen with stats for example, when you have the option to 'save replay'). I really can't see how anyone could vote 'No' on this one or even think that you would be able to save replays with only one player's vision... Edit: And to the guy above me: In AMM lobby will only be available in the custom games, not ladder. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
1) Having fog of war over your opponent makes it impossible for you to track his actions and make sure he isn't hacking. Given that a non-negligible amount of hacking will probably be detected by player-submitted feedback, and not just by automated anti-hacking utilities, this does a lot in making the game more conducive to hacking. 2) It's already the case that replays from pro-games are not released. What you lose from this in pro-games is that you take out the ability of a player to analyze his games mid-series and figure out his opponent. It actually encourages LESS creative play in set games, because a player can run the same cheesy build order 3-5 times, and because the opponent has both never seen it before and doesn't have the chance to look at it after the first game, he can fall to it again. IMO at higher-levels, mid-series replay analysis is important to creating dynamic series games, and has arguably contributed to some of the great series comebacks we've seen. | ||
KwarK
United States40774 Posts
I think you have to distinguish between basic strategy shit like build orders which are easy to mimic from a replay and the more advanced stuff. | ||
Sadist
United States6978 Posts
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Waxangel
United States32484 Posts
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Frits
11782 Posts
Not to mention I don't think creativity is getting less at all, just look how incredibly much the game has changed in the last 3 years. Hell last year alone we've seen all kinds of interesting stuff from Flash, Zero, Leta and others. | ||
Sharp-eYe
Canada642 Posts
On January 30 2010 08:15 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Alright, my last post was a little smart alecky, sorry. But, honestly, why should we get upset that people are learning how to play the game better? There are people worried that SC2 won't have enough macro, and other people worried that SC2 will be too macro oriented because people will learn builds from replays (at least I hope these are two separate groups of people...). Leagues can keep their reps secret if they want (like kespa) and teams can keep their reps secret, too (like estro). If you don't want people getting your strategies, then you can practice only with people on your team and play others in leagues that only release VODs, like the korean leagues. I really think the game should at least include the option. I think that replays should stick around because they help people ease into the game by copying. No one can reach the top ranks by copying alone, though. All the best players learn to "play by feel" and don't stick to any single build order. Additionally, this would be terrible for the development of ESPORTS. Real sports haven't been ruined by the lack of fog of war. Look at tennis: there aren't a bunch of crazy strategies for that game - yet it has lasted for over a century. If the game needs crazy strategies to be fun to watch, then the core game is poorly made. Starcraft is still as fun to watch as ever, and we continue to see new styles. The lack of creativity recently shown by map makers is contributing to stagnancy much more than replays. And still, the maps are okay, Flash is starting a new deny-the-third TvZ movement, zergs are two basing more than just a few months ago, Jangbi came up with a fast 3 base strat on Neo Moon Glaive, etc. The ratings for the last OSL final were great. Starcraft is not sick. Boxer is wistful for the past he dominated, but it isn't coming back. The best players will have to be able to macro and micro and think on the fly and be creative instead of just a few of those things. I think creative players should have fun with SC2, but we should be able to learn from that and see how smart those plays really are by dissecting them in replays. But its not like you can view a replay of a tennis match, slow it down and copy exactly how to move your arms from every possible angle. Or you cant see how the other person is reacting to something another player is doing. In Tennis VODS, you can only see what the camera is showing. You cant zoom in to the player's face or anything. but I knida agree with people above me for the most part. There is still creativity in today's games. I havent seena game where its completely cookie cutter from early to mid to late game in a while. I think the only reason people think things were more strategic back then was because the number of games broadcasted back then was very very low, so you didnt get to see as much, but I bet there were cookie cutter builds back then too, its just that no one ever really saw them. However, I agree Professional games' replays shouldnt be saved at all. | ||
GGTeMpLaR
United States7226 Posts
mechanics won't be as demanding in SC2 though, which should help some. less mechanical demand should mean mechanics will be less of a cause of a pro-gamer falling from grace from handspeed slowing down due to age regarding copying strats from replays, I think the best ones will adapt, and if you fail to adapt you don't really deserve to be at the top any longer compared to someone who can adapt | ||
flag
United States228 Posts
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Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
LOOOOL what next, you want copyrights of your strategies and sue people using them? | ||
ix
United Kingdom184 Posts
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
On February 03 2010 07:33 ix wrote: Those of you saying replays should hide data- how much of a build do you realistically think that would hide? All you really do is slow down the rate at which imbalances and bugs are identified, making for a much worse game as well as destroying it as a spectator. this | ||
Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
magic players will use each others decks the tourney after they have a good performance. smash players will copy the tech skill and strategies seen from watching other smashers. it's just how competition works. you see someone else do something impressive or cool or effective, and you'll naturally be drawn to figuring out how to do it and whether you should incorporate it into your game. this leads to everyone getting better and eventually as new viable strategies become more and more difficult to devise, the competitive scene favors those with better mechanics/technique/decision making/whatever over those who have creativity. sucks for the creative people out there, but it's the natural evolution of competitive games so I really doubt blizzard would waste their time on the huge pain in the ass of a feature that is finding out how to hide your opponents actions (without impacting what he's doing) from you in the replay. | ||
Jugan
United States1566 Posts
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ix
United Kingdom184 Posts
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
Why would you want to ruin a spectators fun? Competition is much more fierce with replays, those with the passion and dedication to win, will. | ||
prOxi.swAMi
Australia3091 Posts
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BlackYoshi
United States84 Posts
And come on, there's a huge difference between viewing a build order on a replay and executing flawlessly. Starcraft is more than mindlessly memorizing build orders and always will be. Creativity has died down in this game because its 10-11 years old and most of the best strategies for the average player have already been discovered, and there isn't much more to know about the game even at a high level. | ||
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