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Sweden33723 Posts
Q: What is this thread?
A: General purpose, SC2 discussion thread.
Q: What should I be posting about?
A: Basically, anything you want to talk about but aren't sure if it warrants a topic of its own. Heard a rumour you want to share? A new video? A brilliant new idea that you want to vet, to make sure it's really as brilliant as you think it is?
This is the place.
Note:
Posting standards will not be as high as if you were to make a new thread, but pointless spam will still not be tolerated. I have seen threads like these work out alright on other sites (for other games) so I figured, why not give it a shot? It's possible there's not really enough content for something like this to exist at this point in time, but no harm then, it will just die on its own.
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Copying my post from the december general discussion forum, which I didn't believe was so bad it deserved not a single reply.
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I was wondering about the Thor.. I thought one of the earlier ideas behind it was that it could function as a heavy siege unit to lead during base attacks? Considering that currently it's so much like a Marauder with an air attack, except stronger, I didn't see what was special about the Thor, and how they could balance it so it's not dominant yet does have a unique role in the terran arsenal, not just as generic T3 unit to base your army around.
I remembered a unit from a game I played when I was younger, Earth 2140, which was called the TIGER Hellmaker. I thought of it since it physically resembles the Thor a lot, but more importantly, I figured its attack might as well be a good idea for the Thor. It fires two slowly moving napalm grenades that impact the ground a second or two later, only to explode in fire. Standing around for the explosion deals damage and standing in the fire as well(which lasts 4-5 seconds).
I really feel like such an attack could be useful for an army leading unit, especially in not terribly mobile situations such as base assaults, in which case it works well on a siege unit. This is because leading with a Thor armed with these weapons forces your opponent to move away, or fight, so if you can force a fight it becomes more destructive.
Besides this, it's also a fun attack to play with. Faster enemy units can try to avoid the attack in smaller numbers, even it requires heavy attention, and there's also a benefit for individually macroing your Thors to attack different targets so avoiding it is more difficult. A minor benefit is that it's somewhat intricate, yet not an ability. (which is a concern, I believe)
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Also a note to Blizzard:
Please add a "Set to Grid" next to "Set to Default" if you're going to allow hotkey customization so all the people preferring that won´t have to spend an hour simply changing hotkeys.
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Unfortunately, i think there will be little change to any of these units in the near future. Hp, build time, damage, etc. but not roles. I think the Thor is here to stay as a hard counter to mass muta and carriers and as a meat shield in large battles. It's not soooo bad, but less than i think we wanted.
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There are a couple of things that I feel should be implemented if not yet already. The first of which is a gateway/warpgate exit animation. The gateway/warpgate should have flashes of energy or kind of animation when a unit is complete instead of having units appear. The second change I would like to see is a logical path for SCV construction patterns. That means something along the lines of SCVs working in a clockwise or counterclockwise pattern spiraling outwards when constructing a building. Having a SCV construction pattern would reduce randomness in the game. Also SCVs should not have to build too far away from the structure like they sometimes would in SC BW.
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@ Mothxal:
That's kinda like saying the goliath is just a big marine, the change of stats and cost drastically changes the situations it can be used it. I think the thor is a nice idea, but they kinda killed all it's originality (no scv build, no slow turning/movement) It just seems to big to move in the way it does, i'm hoping a model change is in order.
As for the main/special attack change, i'm all for it, since the hellion (and firebat) has a fire attack it's not completely far out, burning plasma shells would be quite interesting, especially if they splashed in a cerrtain path, like straight forward, or radial. At the moment it's quite reminiscent of the original battlecruiser.
@ ShineShineBear
Agree here too, though it's not a huge deal for spectators, as you can see the units spawning / teleporting in, there is a visual feedback there.
overall I think sc units appearing next to the building is a bit of a cop out due to scale issues, but not going to lose sleep over it.
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On January 03 2010 07:47 Mothxal wrote:
I really feel like such an attack could be useful for an army leading unit, especially in not terribly mobile situations such as base assaults, in which case it works well on a siege unit. This is because leading with a Thor armed with these weapons forces your opponent to move away, or fight, so if you can force a fight it becomes more destructive.
I believe the new SC2 science vessel unit thing, can't remember the name, already has an attack similar to this. It shoots a missle at an area that does large damage and you have to dodge it.
Its similar to burning oil in WC3 for the demolishers. I can't remember if missiles from siege units would track units after they were launched. It is an interesting mechanic that can force micro and fight awareness.
If anything it'll be like a predictable mini psi storm
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I was really hoping Blizzard was gonna give everyone a Christmas treat and announce beta. Its not Jan 4 and no announcement! ARGH!
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On January 04 2010 03:42 caution.slip wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2010 07:47 Mothxal wrote:
I really feel like such an attack could be useful for an army leading unit, especially in not terribly mobile situations such as base assaults, in which case it works well on a siege unit. This is because leading with a Thor armed with these weapons forces your opponent to move away, or fight, so if you can force a fight it becomes more destructive.
I believe the new SC2 science vessel unit thing, can't remember the name, already has an attack similar to this. It shoots a missle at an area that does large damage and you have to dodge it. Its similar to burning oil in WC3 for the demolishers. I can't remember if missiles from siege units would track units after they were launched. It is an interesting mechanic that can force micro and fight awareness. If anything it'll be like a predictable mini psi storm Hunter Seeking Missle is a tracking missle and will seek out its target, I believe; the key being to seperate the unit from the rest(similar to how Irradiate on Mutalisks functions).
I think it's like demolishers and burning oil, yes. I'm not sure that attack worked out in warcraft 3, but I assume that's because some fire damage isn't really significant with all the high hitpoints units and demolishers are too fragile by the time you can research burning oil.
Alternatively, give the Thors a knife and kung-fu skills like the mech in Avatar. 
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I've stopped holding my breath zergpower =p
It'll be here. Soon.
I hope they make the thor's missile animation less weak, just doesn't seem like those missiles would cause aoe damage.
About the worry of intricacy with the attack-not-ability thing, well, the same could probably be said about brood lords.
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On January 04 2010 03:42 caution.slip wrote:
I believe the new SC2 science vessel unit thing, can't remember the name, already has an attack similar to this. It shoots a missle at an area that does large damage and you have to dodge it.
Its similar to burning oil in WC3 for the demolishers. I can't remember if missiles from siege units would track units after they were launched. It is an interesting mechanic that can force micro and fight awareness.
If anything it'll be like a predictable mini psi storm
Yeah it's the Raven's ability Hunter Seeker Missile; a video with DBz has him talking about them, saying they're trying to balance the speed/behavior of the missile because in the video it looked unavoidable.
It does 150 in an instant so I can see that either getting reduced, or a minimum range being implemented.
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I'm still betting on Feb-April for when the beta comes out. I just can't see it happening in January for some reason. "Early this year" almost always translates into "mid-late Spring" in Blizzard terms.
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On January 03 2010 14:04 ShineShineBear wrote:
There are a couple of things that I feel should be implemented if not yet already. The first of which is a gateway/warpgate exit animation. The gateway/warpgate should have flashes of energy or kind of animation when a unit is complete instead of having units appear. The second change I would like to see is a logical path for SCV construction patterns. That means something along the lines of SCVs working in a clockwise or counterclockwise pattern spiraling outwards when constructing a building. Having a SCV construction pattern would reduce randomness in the game. Also SCVs should not have to build too far away from the structure like they sometimes would in SC BW.
Small ideas but both excellent nontheless.
Perhaps with the warp in, units would originate from the center of a gate way and you would see them sort of walk out.
This could also be applied to Terran, where you would see some sort of a door open in the building and the finished unit comes walking out of the factory/barracks. For the Starport, the circular center portion would go down into the building and come back up with a new unit.
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^Imagine a Thor coming out of a factory half its size lol
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OK I have this idea, although it might not be as great from another perspective. It is about commanding unit formations. For example, if you want to arrange Marines on a vertical line you would select the group and drag a line vertically using both mouse buttons and the Marines would do as instructed. One could also use a U-shaped gesture and the units would form along the lines. What do you people think?
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I think you can make a formation manually, automating unit control is a recipe for disaster.
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A long time ago, in some random thread, someone said there should be a spread command. In other words, if you have a group of units and you use the spread command, they will all run in the opposite direction of wherever you clicked.
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On January 04 2010 07:44 minus_human wrote:
^Imagine a Thor coming out of a factory half its size lol
sacrificial factory imo. the factory should turn INTO a thor
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On January 04 2010 09:44 darksilver wrote:
OK I have this idea, although it might not be as great from another perspective. It is about commanding unit formations. For example, if you want to arrange Marines on a vertical line you would select the group and drag a line vertically using both mouse buttons and the Marines would do as instructed. One could also use a U-shaped gesture and the units would form along the lines. What do you people think?
Commanding unit formations would just take away from the skill involved in microing units during battles. For example: In a PvP, both players could easily create perfect arcs of dragoons (or stalkers or w/e) and there would be no micro necessary. It just makes it too easy.
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On January 04 2010 16:54 Grobyc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2010 07:44 minus_human wrote:
^Imagine a Thor coming out of a factory half its size lol sacrificial factory imo. the factory should turn INTO a thor
If that was in SC1, that would take care of imba recalls!
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EPT
