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On January 14 2010 08:08 Broodie wrote:
I'm not even going to speculate beta, and I'm not going near guessing when the game is coming out..
people have been doing this for 2 years and the only thing we have is 4 battle reports, a couple game vids and a small amount of leaked gameplay, this is taking saoooo longgggg x(
I wish blizzard would just entertain us a little bit, with modern warfare 2, Infinity ward hired a guy just to entertain the world with the tiniest tidbits of info but it was substantial enough to keep everyone on edge about the game, why can't blizzard just release vids?!
Technically, Karune is supposed to do that. There's just nothing left to talk about until beta comes out, all the details about the game have been bled dry.
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On January 14 2010 09:42 old times sake wrote:
I would like to know whether they are really going to make the beta about finishing the multiplayer to SC standards. The War3 beta was a big disappointment, and I'm worried that the beta will be more about finding hardware issues than making sure SC2's multi is good for good players and on track to stand the test of time like SC. I think it's possible, but only if that's really a goal. Is the beta with this goal? Is it being organized to accomplish this goal? Or is it going to end with a game not much better than when it started much like War3's beta? In other words, are they going to release SC2 with a basically unfinished multiplayer and subject us to years worth of overhauling patches followed up by an expansion that finally makes the multiplayer a good bit better (but still nothing like SC), or are they really going for the gusto here like SC fans are obviously hoping?
I don't know any more then anyone else about this but I am trying to be optimistic and assuming that all the delays are because they are really working on making the game as balanced as possible to ensure the same longevity as SC BW.
The balance of SC is unprecedented. In many ways its like chess, accept they achieved some thing in some ways even harder because there are 3 fairly balanced races.
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United States2124 Posts
Browder was claiming a while ago that the game is as far along as it's going to get before beta testing, and that there's only so much they can do with the limited number of games they play compared to a full beta pool. Beta will have some hardware aspects, but it's definitely going to have a huge focus on balance as well.
With that said, you're probably going to be disappointed if you expect SC2 to release balance and depth quality on SC:BW's current level. No matter what we're going to see a lot of changes in the form of expansions and patches.
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I think Blizzard will definately do whatever they can reasonably do to make this game the best game ever (better than SC). I believe them when they say that. Though, this game has such high expectations, it would not be a total shocker if even with all the hard work they are pouring in, it fall short of our expectations. All in all I've heard good things about the korean trials such as "good game speed", "feels like starcraft and not warcraft 3". My slight beef with the game (similar beef with warcraft 3) is that the 3d engine with all the flashy images of movement and attack makes it sometimes hard to distinguis what the heck's actually going on. Like some of the lasers cover up the screen and I can't tell whats behind. Hopefully this is not a major issue. Can't wait for the game to come out. It will be quite an adventure as starcraft was.
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You know what I hope SC2 doesn't have?
Animating menus that slide all over the place like warcraft 3.
God, that's annoying as hell. Especially as a modder who has to jump in and out of the game over and over and over to test things or run replays with AI in vanilla starcraft... those sliding menus just drive me nuts.
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On January 14 2010 13:34 Polygamy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2010 09:42 old times sake wrote:
I would like to know whether they are really going to make the beta about finishing the multiplayer to SC standards. The War3 beta was a big disappointment, and I'm worried that the beta will be more about finding hardware issues than making sure SC2's multi is good for good players and on track to stand the test of time like SC. I think it's possible, but only if that's really a goal. Is the beta with this goal? Is it being organized to accomplish this goal? Or is it going to end with a game not much better than when it started much like War3's beta? In other words, are they going to release SC2 with a basically unfinished multiplayer and subject us to years worth of overhauling patches followed up by an expansion that finally makes the multiplayer a good bit better (but still nothing like SC), or are they really going for the gusto here like SC fans are obviously hoping? I don't know any more then anyone else about this but I am trying to be optimistic and assuming that all the delays are because they are really working on making the game as balanced as possible to ensure the same longevity as SC BW. The balance of SC is unprecedented. In many ways its like chess, accept they achieved some thing in some ways even harder because there are 3 fairly balanced races.
No, not at all. Blizzard didn't ever achieve balance as great as SC. To see what Blizzard achieved, install Broodwar and play 1.04 on Broodwar maps, or install SC and play 1.00-1.03 on Blizzard maps. The game is good (way better than other RTS's) so it means no insult. It just means that what's amazing about SC has been achieved largely by custom maps trying to do what Blizzard hasn't been able to do--make good balance changes.
This is why SC2 is either going to be a failure like War3 in our community's eyes, or be something truly unprecedented. For Blizzard to raise SC2 to an SC-like level they are going to have to do something better than they have ever done before. I'm looking for signs that they recognize this and are acting accordingly. That's why I asked whether there are signs that the beta is going to not close with an inferior (to SC) product like War3's did. Furthermore, I'd say that unless the beta fosters high-level, game-breaking competition which is both understood by Blizzard and reacted to it on a level similar to what map makers in SC have done, I think SC2 multiplayer is going to be quite a letdown for our small community. So again, I'm looking for signals from Blizzard that they understand this and are acting accordingly, as opposed to them just working on a hot single player and pretty graphics and looking for hardware bugs.
On January 14 2010 15:41 mishimaBeef wrote:
I think Blizzard will definately do whatever they can reasonably do to make this game the best game ever (better than SC). I believe them when they say that. Though, this game has such high expectations, it would not be a total shocker if even with all the hard work they are pouring in, it fall short of our expectations. All in all I've heard good things about the korean trials such as "good game speed", "feels like starcraft and not warcraft 3". My slight beef with the game (similar beef with warcraft 3) is that the 3d engine with all the flashy images of movement and attack makes it sometimes hard to distinguis what the heck's actually going on. Like some of the lasers cover up the screen and I can't tell whats behind. Hopefully this is not a major issue. Can't wait for the game to come out. It will be quite an adventure as starcraft was.
SC2 definitely seems to have War3's disco-lights spam right now, which is not a good sign IMO.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On January 14 2010 15:54 IskatuMesk wrote:
You know what I hope SC2 doesn't have?
Animating menus that slide all over the place like warcraft 3.
God, that's annoying as hell. Especially as a modder who has to jump in and out of the game over and over and over to test things or run replays with AI in vanilla starcraft... those sliding menus just drive me nuts.
I agree, this is something that was brought to their attention several times just after they announced the game so I am hopeful that they saw this.
This is why SC2 is either going to be a failure like War3 in our community's eyes, or be something truly unprecedented. For Blizzard to raise SC2 to an SC-like level they are going to have to do something better than they have ever done before. I'm looking for signs that they recognize this and are acting accordingly. That's why I asked whether there are signs that the beta is going to not close with an inferior (to SC) product like War3's did. Furthermore, I'd say that unless the beta fosters high-level, game-breaking competition which is both understood by Blizzard and reacted to it on a level similar to what map makers in SC have done, I think SC2 multiplayer is going to be quite a letdown for our small community. So again, I'm looking for signals from Blizzard that they understand this and are acting accordingly, as opposed to them just working on a hot single player and pretty graphics and looking for hardware bugs.
Let's be honest, there is not a snowballs chance in hell of SC2 being balanced on release. This isn't because they won't try, or because they won't take feedback into account... it's simply because the game will not be able to evolve quickly enough in such a short time to tell whether we've really, truly, reached "balance".
Something thought to be imbalanced, might have been solved if you just let the game play for 2 years.
Something thought to not be imbalanced might turn out to be imbalanced 2 years later when people get good enough to exploit it.
In addition, there are 2 more expansions in the pipeline, meaning that whatever balance is reached, will then be partially lost and the process starts over again. We can probably look forward to at least a few years worth of patches, but that's actually fine - adapting to periodic changes isn't all bad - it keeps things fresh.
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Blizzard can not be ignorant to the fact that there is a pro circuit with a rather large following for how prehistoric of a game SC is.
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Heres my General discussion input
why is beta not out yet.
i should not have to suffer anymore blizzard.
you are so cru EL
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On January 14 2010 20:47 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2010 15:54 IskatuMesk wrote:
You know what I hope SC2 doesn't have?
Animating menus that slide all over the place like warcraft 3.
God, that's annoying as hell. Especially as a modder who has to jump in and out of the game over and over and over to test things or run replays with AI in vanilla starcraft... those sliding menus just drive me nuts. I agree, this is something that was brought to their attention several times just after they announced the game so I am hopeful that they saw this. Show nested quote +This is why SC2 is either going to be a failure like War3 in our community's eyes, or be something truly unprecedented. For Blizzard to raise SC2 to an SC-like level they are going to have to do something better than they have ever done before. I'm looking for signs that they recognize this and are acting accordingly. That's why I asked whether there are signs that the beta is going to not close with an inferior (to SC) product like War3's did. Furthermore, I'd say that unless the beta fosters high-level, game-breaking competition which is both understood by Blizzard and reacted to it on a level similar to what map makers in SC have done, I think SC2 multiplayer is going to be quite a letdown for our small community. So again, I'm looking for signals from Blizzard that they understand this and are acting accordingly, as opposed to them just working on a hot single player and pretty graphics and looking for hardware bugs. Let's be honest, there is not a snowballs chance in hell of SC2 being balanced on release. This isn't because they won't try, or because they won't take feedback into account... it's simply because the game will not be able to evolve quickly enough in such a short time to tell whether we've really, truly, reached "balance". Something thought to be imbalanced, might have been solved if you just let the game play for 2 years. Something thought to not be imbalanced might turn out to be imbalanced 2 years later when people get good enough to exploit it. In addition, there are 2 more expansions in the pipeline, meaning that whatever balance is reached, will then be partially lost and the process starts over again. We can probably look forward to at least a few years worth of patches, but that's actually fine - adapting to periodic changes isn't all bad - it keeps things fresh.
I think the problem here is that we are all putting our optimism in the wrong place. We should not hope that the game will be better than a creepless upkeepless heroless War3 with more responsive units and a space theme.
We should instead hope that Blizzard can effectively let SC2 be learned quickly in the beta and have mature strategies come about right now, thanks to the already high skill level in SC. SC skill level should transfer to SC2. SC got a huge headstart as advanced War2 players quickly figured the game out (relatively). What changed since them were patches, new units, maps, and execution. Well guess what? That advanced execution can start in SC2 beta right now. If they put the incentive in place, the beta can be played to a very advanced level in a matter of a month or two. Put up cash that pro teams will care about (not really much from a sponsor's perspective), and you will see games that matter right away. Modify the game according to that, play another high-stakes series that goes on long enough for a little adaptation (we should be able to judge how long this typically takes for games using the history of SC's leagues), and it can happen. They could run 3-4 cycles of this before releasing the game.
It won't be SC in its present state, but it will be perhaps something more sophisticated than where SC was when BW came out. Let's face it, we don't want to wait 10 years for SC2 to matter. It won't survive that long. Look at War3. When it's 10 years old it won't be anything but the same game it is today. Something different must be done to give SC2 a boost so that it can avoid the same fate--I want to see some signs that Blizzard is treating SC2 differently enough that we can expect it to have a light years headstart over the way War3 started.
Basically, there's all this talent and skill and motivation tied up in SC. If they aren't careful, it will decide to stay in SC pretty early on. They need it to transfer to SC2 more successfully this time around. They need to ensure it will work on Korean TV--unlike War3. That is, if they are going to satisfy us. I fear they will be happy just releasing something just a little better than War3, and not really trying to have the momentum of SC truly transfer to it.
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On January 14 2010 20:47 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2010 15:54 IskatuMesk wrote:
You know what I hope SC2 doesn't have?
Animating menus that slide all over the place like warcraft 3.
God, that's annoying as hell. Especially as a modder who has to jump in and out of the game over and over and over to test things or run replays with AI in vanilla starcraft... those sliding menus just drive me nuts. I agree, this is something that was brought to their attention several times just after they announced the game so I am hopeful that they saw this. Show nested quote +This is why SC2 is either going to be a failure like War3 in our community's eyes, or be something truly unprecedented. For Blizzard to raise SC2 to an SC-like level they are going to have to do something better than they have ever done before. I'm looking for signs that they recognize this and are acting accordingly. That's why I asked whether there are signs that the beta is going to not close with an inferior (to SC) product like War3's did. Furthermore, I'd say that unless the beta fosters high-level, game-breaking competition which is both understood by Blizzard and reacted to it on a level similar to what map makers in SC have done, I think SC2 multiplayer is going to be quite a letdown for our small community. So again, I'm looking for signals from Blizzard that they understand this and are acting accordingly, as opposed to them just working on a hot single player and pretty graphics and looking for hardware bugs. Let's be honest, there is not a snowballs chance in hell of SC2 being balanced on release. This isn't because they won't try, or because they won't take feedback into account... it's simply because the game will not be able to evolve quickly enough in such a short time to tell whether we've really, truly, reached "balance". Something thought to be imbalanced, might have been solved if you just let the game play for 2 years. Something thought to not be imbalanced might turn out to be imbalanced 2 years later when people get good enough to exploit it. In addition, there are 2 more expansions in the pipeline, meaning that whatever balance is reached, will then be partially lost and the process starts over again. We can probably look forward to at least a few years worth of patches, but that's actually fine - adapting to periodic changes isn't all bad - it keeps things fresh.
FA makes a good point here and I would like to add that altho I don't know what was the player pool back then when sc:bw was released but I belive it will be much much larger with SCII release becouse simply not so many ppl were into games back in 98 and even if there is a same amount of players playing the games thru 1st year or so the game will gain quicker balancing pace than bw becouse ppl now have much deeper understanding of game and much larger pool of players that understand the game and it's flow. And we got sc:bw web sites alrdy (even without beta out goddamn it!) slowly switching to SCII where ppl will discuss and alrdy are discussing (  ) the game so again this will make game balanced more quickly than bw.
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Really they should have a progamer-only beta.
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I have a question that im sure has bee answered some where on the site but for the sake of not hunting all over for it... Once the beta is released what are the chances of obtaining it and how would you go about getting it?
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On January 15 2010 10:22 Polygamy wrote:
I have a question that im sure has bee answered some where on the site but for the sake of not hunting all over for it... Once the beta is released what are the chances of obtaining it and how would you go about getting it?
Sign up here.
www.battle.net
After that go into Account Management, and click on Beta Profile Settings. Submit your system settings and click the box that says you are interested in Starcraft universe betas. Once you're done with all that, all you can do is hope you're invited in.
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Russian Federation1607 Posts
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Awesome! Just finished reading it.
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On January 04 2010 17:22 Sentient66 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2010 09:44 darksilver wrote:
OK I have this idea, although it might not be as great from another perspective. It is about commanding unit formations. For example, if you want to arrange Marines on a vertical line you would select the group and drag a line vertically using both mouse buttons and the Marines would do as instructed. One could also use a U-shaped gesture and the units would form along the lines. What do you people think? Commanding unit formations would just take away from the skill involved in microing units during battles. For example: In a PvP, both players could easily create perfect arcs of dragoons (or stalkers or w/e) and there would be no micro necessary. It just makes it too easy.
I understand most SC players' desire for everything to be 100% manual, but I see nothing wrong with being able to click both mouse buttons and drag to create formations. I'm not saying choose any formating like an arc or whatever, but being able to put your units into a line would be nice.
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On January 14 2010 15:54 IskatuMesk wrote:
You know what I hope SC2 doesn't have?
Animating menus that slide all over the place like warcraft 3.
God, that's annoying as hell. Especially as a modder who has to jump in and out of the game over and over and over to test things or run replays with AI in vanilla starcraft... those sliding menus just drive me nuts.
ugh, amen to that.
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EPT
