Q: What should I be posting about? A: Basically, anything you want to talk about but aren't sure if it warrants a topic of its own. Heard a rumour you want to share? A new video? A brilliant new idea that you want to vet, to make sure it's really as brilliant as you think it is?
This is the place.
Note: Posting standards will not be as high as if you were to make a new thread, but pointless spam will still not be tolerated. I have seen threads like these work out alright on other sites (for other games) so I figured, why not give it a shot? It's possible there's not really enough content for something like this to exist at this point in time, but no harm then, it will just die on its own.
Copying my post from the december general discussion forum, which I didn't believe was so bad it deserved not a single reply. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I was wondering about the Thor.. I thought one of the earlier ideas behind it was that it could function as a heavy siege unit to lead during base attacks? Considering that currently it's so much like a Marauder with an air attack, except stronger, I didn't see what was special about the Thor, and how they could balance it so it's not dominant yet does have a unique role in the terran arsenal, not just as generic T3 unit to base your army around.
I remembered a unit from a game I played when I was younger, Earth 2140, which was called the TIGER Hellmaker. I thought of it since it physically resembles the Thor a lot, but more importantly, I figured its attack might as well be a good idea for the Thor. It fires two slowly moving napalm grenades that impact the ground a second or two later, only to explode in fire. Standing around for the explosion deals damage and standing in the fire as well(which lasts 4-5 seconds).
I really feel like such an attack could be useful for an army leading unit, especially in not terribly mobile situations such as base assaults, in which case it works well on a siege unit. This is because leading with a Thor armed with these weapons forces your opponent to move away, or fight, so if you can force a fight it becomes more destructive.
Besides this, it's also a fun attack to play with. Faster enemy units can try to avoid the attack in smaller numbers, even it requires heavy attention, and there's also a benefit for individually macroing your Thors to attack different targets so avoiding it is more difficult. A minor benefit is that it's somewhat intricate, yet not an ability. (which is a concern, I believe)
Please add a "Set to Grid" next to "Set to Default" if you're going to allow hotkey customization so all the people preferring that won´t have to spend an hour simply changing hotkeys.
Unfortunately, i think there will be little change to any of these units in the near future. Hp, build time, damage, etc. but not roles. I think the Thor is here to stay as a hard counter to mass muta and carriers and as a meat shield in large battles. It's not soooo bad, but less than i think we wanted.
There are a couple of things that I feel should be implemented if not yet already. The first of which is a gateway/warpgate exit animation. The gateway/warpgate should have flashes of energy or kind of animation when a unit is complete instead of having units appear. The second change I would like to see is a logical path for SCV construction patterns. That means something along the lines of SCVs working in a clockwise or counterclockwise pattern spiraling outwards when constructing a building. Having a SCV construction pattern would reduce randomness in the game. Also SCVs should not have to build too far away from the structure like they sometimes would in SC BW.
That's kinda like saying the goliath is just a big marine, the change of stats and cost drastically changes the situations it can be used it. I think the thor is a nice idea, but they kinda killed all it's originality (no scv build, no slow turning/movement) It just seems to big to move in the way it does, i'm hoping a model change is in order.
As for the main/special attack change, i'm all for it, since the hellion (and firebat) has a fire attack it's not completely far out, burning plasma shells would be quite interesting, especially if they splashed in a cerrtain path, like straight forward, or radial. At the moment it's quite reminiscent of the original battlecruiser.
@ ShineShineBear
Agree here too, though it's not a huge deal for spectators, as you can see the units spawning / teleporting in, there is a visual feedback there.
overall I think sc units appearing next to the building is a bit of a cop out due to scale issues, but not going to lose sleep over it.
I really feel like such an attack could be useful for an army leading unit, especially in not terribly mobile situations such as base assaults, in which case it works well on a siege unit. This is because leading with a Thor armed with these weapons forces your opponent to move away, or fight, so if you can force a fight it becomes more destructive.
I believe the new SC2 science vessel unit thing, can't remember the name, already has an attack similar to this. It shoots a missle at an area that does large damage and you have to dodge it.
Its similar to burning oil in WC3 for the demolishers. I can't remember if missiles from siege units would track units after they were launched. It is an interesting mechanic that can force micro and fight awareness.
If anything it'll be like a predictable mini psi storm
I really feel like such an attack could be useful for an army leading unit, especially in not terribly mobile situations such as base assaults, in which case it works well on a siege unit. This is because leading with a Thor armed with these weapons forces your opponent to move away, or fight, so if you can force a fight it becomes more destructive.
I believe the new SC2 science vessel unit thing, can't remember the name, already has an attack similar to this. It shoots a missle at an area that does large damage and you have to dodge it.
Its similar to burning oil in WC3 for the demolishers. I can't remember if missiles from siege units would track units after they were launched. It is an interesting mechanic that can force micro and fight awareness.
If anything it'll be like a predictable mini psi storm
Hunter Seeking Missle is a tracking missle and will seek out its target, I believe; the key being to seperate the unit from the rest(similar to how Irradiate on Mutalisks functions).
I think it's like demolishers and burning oil, yes. I'm not sure that attack worked out in warcraft 3, but I assume that's because some fire damage isn't really significant with all the high hitpoints units and demolishers are too fragile by the time you can research burning oil.
Alternatively, give the Thors a knife and kung-fu skills like the mech in Avatar.
I believe the new SC2 science vessel unit thing, can't remember the name, already has an attack similar to this. It shoots a missle at an area that does large damage and you have to dodge it.
Its similar to burning oil in WC3 for the demolishers. I can't remember if missiles from siege units would track units after they were launched. It is an interesting mechanic that can force micro and fight awareness.
If anything it'll be like a predictable mini psi storm
Yeah it's the Raven's ability Hunter Seeker Missile; a video with DBz has him talking about them, saying they're trying to balance the speed/behavior of the missile because in the video it looked unavoidable.
It does 150 in an instant so I can see that either getting reduced, or a minimum range being implemented.
I'm still betting on Feb-April for when the beta comes out. I just can't see it happening in January for some reason. "Early this year" almost always translates into "mid-late Spring" in Blizzard terms.
On January 03 2010 14:04 ShineShineBear wrote: There are a couple of things that I feel should be implemented if not yet already. The first of which is a gateway/warpgate exit animation. The gateway/warpgate should have flashes of energy or kind of animation when a unit is complete instead of having units appear. The second change I would like to see is a logical path for SCV construction patterns. That means something along the lines of SCVs working in a clockwise or counterclockwise pattern spiraling outwards when constructing a building. Having a SCV construction pattern would reduce randomness in the game. Also SCVs should not have to build too far away from the structure like they sometimes would in SC BW.
Small ideas but both excellent nontheless.
Perhaps with the warp in, units would originate from the center of a gate way and you would see them sort of walk out.
This could also be applied to Terran, where you would see some sort of a door open in the building and the finished unit comes walking out of the factory/barracks. For the Starport, the circular center portion would go down into the building and come back up with a new unit.
OK I have this idea, although it might not be as great from another perspective. It is about commanding unit formations. For example, if you want to arrange Marines on a vertical line you would select the group and drag a line vertically using both mouse buttons and the Marines would do as instructed. One could also use a U-shaped gesture and the units would form along the lines. What do you people think?
A long time ago, in some random thread, someone said there should be a spread command. In other words, if you have a group of units and you use the spread command, they will all run in the opposite direction of wherever you clicked.
On January 04 2010 09:44 darksilver wrote: OK I have this idea, although it might not be as great from another perspective. It is about commanding unit formations. For example, if you want to arrange Marines on a vertical line you would select the group and drag a line vertically using both mouse buttons and the Marines would do as instructed. One could also use a U-shaped gesture and the units would form along the lines. What do you people think?
Commanding unit formations would just take away from the skill involved in microing units during battles. For example: In a PvP, both players could easily create perfect arcs of dragoons (or stalkers or w/e) and there would be no micro necessary. It just makes it too easy.
I hate Thors I hated them from the moment they first appeared. But since they are going to stay they should get a lot smaller. I also would like to cast storm on a ledge even if I don't have vision.
Currently Terran can destroy bases way to quickly (seen in the last BR) I think something should be done about that.
OK, I know all people do is add little things that they think are cool. Well, I guess I'm adding one more thought. That being: I was thinking that instead of forming up your groups into a line and then moving, use the mouse as a "Line" not a "Point" when "A" moving or "click" moving. Or an alternate idea would be to hold A and click out the formation. So the idea would be to take a pile of units then hit A then left click and HOLD left click making an arch from one side of the choke (or other area) to the other. The units would attacK move to the location and line up (using simple math to evenly line up). The same thing would aply to right click moving, just instead of right clicking a point if you hold the right click down and drag out (a line) your formation.
I can make some simple pictures/vids if you need more understanding of what I am saying.
I do understand this may sound a little complex, but I think it's simple enough it would work. If the line is too much just use the hold A down and use multiple clicks to make the exact formation.
Anyway I am now getting to the point of rambling. Discuss......
Commanding unit formations would just take away from the skill involved in microing units during battles. For example: In a PvP, both players could easily create perfect arcs of dragoons (or stalkers or w/e) and there would be no micro necessary. It just makes it too easy.
qfe, please stop posting formation crap -_-. Scatter... this isn't c&c. Good formations should be a sign of good unit control, not the interface.
On January 04 2010 07:44 minus_human wrote: ^Imagine a Thor coming out of a factory half its size lol
sacrificial factory imo. the factory should turn INTO a thor
It could roll out "packed" and "unpack" once out of factory.
I'm pretty sure I saw Starport "opening" and Raven flying out of it in one of Gstar videos.
About units leaving Gateways - in my opinion units "blinking out" sort of like Stalkers would be the best because I think the same animation is used when Phase Prisms (new Shuttles) load and unload units.
I feel SC2 is becoming old news. It's been so many years, I haven't seen anything new or impressive since the preview of the editor showcasing the FPS and side scrolling shooter. I'm losing interest now.
How are players expected to get better in SC2 if they are fighting people nearly identically to their own skill level? If you get raped every game you will definitely be getting much progressively better than if you played a D- noob every game.
On January 08 2010 16:31 YellowDeath wrote: How are players expected to get better in SC2 if they are fighting people nearly identically to their own skill level? If you get raped every game you will definitely be getting much progressively better than if you played a D- noob every game.
what you said made absolutely no sense. Your comparison was bad too. What kind of a supercomputer do you expect blizzard to use that will match you with someone of IDENTICAL mechanical and strategical skill? That's pretty bad logic right there. How does playing iccup against the same ranks as yourself make you improve if you're saying it doesn't? Secondly, do you expect good players to have a fun time if they were paired up with pile of trash noobs all the time, and do you think most noobs would have a good time getting raped? Worst logic ever.
and plus its almost a challenge in itself since noobs will guaranteed always try new mechanics
the macro mechanics are not noob friendly what-so-ever though
my question is:
does anybody know when the new BR is coming? I'm seriously spazzing out over here, like 2 years since the announcement and only 4 official videos, its lame and I need moreeeee
On January 05 2010 03:24 Dr Insaniack wrote: OK, I know all people do is add little things that they think are cool. Well, I guess I'm adding one more thought. That being: I was thinking that instead of forming up your groups into a line and then moving, use the mouse as a "Line" not a "Point" when "A" moving or "click" moving. Or an alternate idea would be to hold A and click out the formation. So the idea would be to take a pile of units then hit A then left click and HOLD left click making an arch from one side of the choke (or other area) to the other. The units would attacK move to the location and line up (using simple math to evenly line up). The same thing would aply to right click moving, just instead of right clicking a point if you hold the right click down and drag out (a line) your formation.
I can make some simple pictures/vids if you need more understanding of what I am saying.
I do understand this may sound a little complex, but I think it's simple enough it would work. If the line is too much just use the hold A down and use multiple clicks to make the exact formation.
Anyway I am now getting to the point of rambling. Discuss......
I like that, I play another RTS where it works like that and its great. And its not automatic unit control like somebody said... Yes, you can get better micro with this system but it doesnt automate anything - it takes no control away from you, and you still gotta know how to position your units, and it does require dexterity too to draw lines accurately as fast as you can.
But most probably it wont get implemented, it'd change the balance too (some units becoming much better to micro while some not so much changed), and change the feel of the game. But it'd be funny to micro a line of mutalisks, like in an BWAI video
Didn't get a response in another thread and thought it warranted it look, seems reasonable enough to me:
Xel'Naga Tower Idea
Hi guys, I feel like we have seen very little attention to large maps in Starcraft 2. While there are obvious reasons for this I was thinking that on larger maps Xel'Naga towers could lose their effectiveness as their ratio to the map size decreases.
So I have a proposal that I'm wondering if anyone has discussed:
An alternate Xel'Naga tower that when you first move a unit to it gives you the standard viewing radius. However, if you leave a unit there for a period of time, say 30 seconds or a minute for example, the tower goes into "overdrive mode" and extends its sight radius. I think you could do a cool animation where the tower transforms by having extra large antenna deploy from the inside.
I could imagine a mini progress bar at the tower that starts when you move a unit to it, pauses when in contention, and decreases rapidly when no units are in the trigger area. Maybe this concept could be applied to other terrain features?
Looks sort of funny and I don't think most people would give up the keyboard they are used to just for an SC2 branded one. I think it's interesting though, especially since I'm thinking about grabbing a new keyboard at some point.
Looks sort of funny and I don't think most people would give up the keyboard they are used to just for an SC2 branded one. I think it's interesting though, especially since I'm thinking about grabbing a new keyboard at some point.
Looks sort of funny and I don't think most people would give up the keyboard they are used to just for an SC2 branded one. I think it's interesting though, especially since I'm thinking about grabbing a new keyboard at some point.
I’m Glad you like this, click Reply and Dad I’m sorry, who pulled ... Beta testing started 1 or 2 Date not yet determined.
Debates since the first opened ... Until now Give an answer to this question, I think the most difficult time.
As soon as I’m delighted to tell you I hope that, at times. Seriously.
I'm getting so desperate that I'm actually hyped up even for something like this.
I got another translation..
Is the answer writing and in the mind click to the minutes when it will do regret but… Beta test start one or, date of issue still did not become the decision. When initially opening the debate room from,… Until now the reply regarding this question the drill being taken up and the appear bedspread to be being most difficult. Me it will inform as a quickly glad mind and the time which is drill possibility will come and. >>and the clincher.. + Show Spoiler +
There's one piece missing in the Zerg army in the SC2, and this piece is a dynamic unit, or Spellcaster. As we know, this unit should be the Infestor, but no one use it in the G-Star games, at least not in the gameplays that I've seen. In Protoss army we can mix Hightemplars and Disruptors, to block the enemy and destroy his army with PsiStorm, just to show one example of dynamic use of spellcasters, and how it make one army more dynamic. So, where is this dynamism in zerg army? All that you can do is use the Queen to spawn larvae, mass units and attack. So, what you guys think about it?
I seriously think that the infestor needs one of the brood war spells, either Dark swarm or plague, and some new one. I just cant see them getting much use if the only thing they can do is move underground and control enemy units briefly.
I mean, what if infestors could cast plague, wait till the enemy's health runs down, then infest one of the group so that the infested unit could wipe out the entire weakened group? Different enough from Brood War (no dark swarm), yet actually useful. Imagine sneaking an infestor into an expansion, Plaguing the drones, scvs, probes, then having them all kill each other. tell me that wouldnt be fun to do.
OMG I have been so patient this whole time but I am just getting hella antsy for this game now. There hasn't been any good new info in way too long just a keyboard no one will buy because they couldn't even spell "Protoss". At least give us another battle report...
IIRC the Queen gets a spell like plague ... i think it was called razor plague. This could be dated information though. Then again, most likely the queen will just be sitting in base. I think the temporary mind control on the infestor will be really powerful against someone who doesn't pay enough attention or has no detection.
I don't think any of Infestor's spells will be as powerful as Defiler's because with new pathing and new limit of units selected at once (255?) it will be much easier to manage zerg army on any battlefield... so Dark Swarm and Plague won't be needed to balance things as much as they do in BW?
I am guessing November 2010... The Beta will most likely come out some time in late spring seeing as there has not been any notable announcements in some time ... After the Beta comes out they have to take some time to fix the bugs. November is also the best time for sales considering the Christmas market. It does not seem that many anticipated video game release come out "just in time for summer".
I'm not even going to speculate beta, and I'm not going near guessing when the game is coming out.. people have been doing this for 2 years and the only thing we have is 4 battle reports, a couple game vids and a small amount of leaked gameplay, this is taking saoooo longgggg x(
I wish blizzard would just entertain us a little bit, with modern warfare 2, Infinity ward hired a guy just to entertain the world with the tiniest tidbits of info but it was substantial enough to keep everyone on edge about the game, why can't blizzard just release vids?!
I would like to know whether they are really going to make the beta about finishing the multiplayer to SC standards. The War3 beta was a big disappointment, and I'm worried that the beta will be more about finding hardware issues than making sure SC2's multi is good for good players and on track to stand the test of time like SC. I think it's possible, but only if that's really a goal. Is the beta with this goal? Is it being organized to accomplish this goal? Or is it going to end with a game not much better than when it started much like War3's beta? In other words, are they going to release SC2 with a basically unfinished multiplayer and subject us to years worth of overhauling patches followed up by an expansion that finally makes the multiplayer a good bit better (but still nothing like SC), or are they really going for the gusto here like SC fans are obviously hoping?
On January 14 2010 08:08 Broodie wrote: I'm not even going to speculate beta, and I'm not going near guessing when the game is coming out.. people have been doing this for 2 years and the only thing we have is 4 battle reports, a couple game vids and a small amount of leaked gameplay, this is taking saoooo longgggg x(
I wish blizzard would just entertain us a little bit, with modern warfare 2, Infinity ward hired a guy just to entertain the world with the tiniest tidbits of info but it was substantial enough to keep everyone on edge about the game, why can't blizzard just release vids?!
Technically, Karune is supposed to do that. There's just nothing left to talk about until beta comes out, all the details about the game have been bled dry.
On January 14 2010 09:42 old times sake wrote: I would like to know whether they are really going to make the beta about finishing the multiplayer to SC standards. The War3 beta was a big disappointment, and I'm worried that the beta will be more about finding hardware issues than making sure SC2's multi is good for good players and on track to stand the test of time like SC. I think it's possible, but only if that's really a goal. Is the beta with this goal? Is it being organized to accomplish this goal? Or is it going to end with a game not much better than when it started much like War3's beta? In other words, are they going to release SC2 with a basically unfinished multiplayer and subject us to years worth of overhauling patches followed up by an expansion that finally makes the multiplayer a good bit better (but still nothing like SC), or are they really going for the gusto here like SC fans are obviously hoping?
I don't know any more then anyone else about this but I am trying to be optimistic and assuming that all the delays are because they are really working on making the game as balanced as possible to ensure the same longevity as SC BW. The balance of SC is unprecedented. In many ways its like chess, accept they achieved some thing in some ways even harder because there are 3 fairly balanced races.
Browder was claiming a while ago that the game is as far along as it's going to get before beta testing, and that there's only so much they can do with the limited number of games they play compared to a full beta pool. Beta will have some hardware aspects, but it's definitely going to have a huge focus on balance as well.
With that said, you're probably going to be disappointed if you expect SC2 to release balance and depth quality on SC:BW's current level. No matter what we're going to see a lot of changes in the form of expansions and patches.
I think Blizzard will definately do whatever they can reasonably do to make this game the best game ever (better than SC). I believe them when they say that. Though, this game has such high expectations, it would not be a total shocker if even with all the hard work they are pouring in, it fall short of our expectations. All in all I've heard good things about the korean trials such as "good game speed", "feels like starcraft and not warcraft 3". My slight beef with the game (similar beef with warcraft 3) is that the 3d engine with all the flashy images of movement and attack makes it sometimes hard to distinguis what the heck's actually going on. Like some of the lasers cover up the screen and I can't tell whats behind. Hopefully this is not a major issue. Can't wait for the game to come out. It will be quite an adventure as starcraft was.
Animating menus that slide all over the place like warcraft 3.
God, that's annoying as hell. Especially as a modder who has to jump in and out of the game over and over and over to test things or run replays with AI in vanilla starcraft... those sliding menus just drive me nuts.
On January 14 2010 09:42 old times sake wrote: I would like to know whether they are really going to make the beta about finishing the multiplayer to SC standards. The War3 beta was a big disappointment, and I'm worried that the beta will be more about finding hardware issues than making sure SC2's multi is good for good players and on track to stand the test of time like SC. I think it's possible, but only if that's really a goal. Is the beta with this goal? Is it being organized to accomplish this goal? Or is it going to end with a game not much better than when it started much like War3's beta? In other words, are they going to release SC2 with a basically unfinished multiplayer and subject us to years worth of overhauling patches followed up by an expansion that finally makes the multiplayer a good bit better (but still nothing like SC), or are they really going for the gusto here like SC fans are obviously hoping?
I don't know any more then anyone else about this but I am trying to be optimistic and assuming that all the delays are because they are really working on making the game as balanced as possible to ensure the same longevity as SC BW. The balance of SC is unprecedented. In many ways its like chess, accept they achieved some thing in some ways even harder because there are 3 fairly balanced races.
No, not at all. Blizzard didn't ever achieve balance as great as SC. To see what Blizzard achieved, install Broodwar and play 1.04 on Broodwar maps, or install SC and play 1.00-1.03 on Blizzard maps. The game is good (way better than other RTS's) so it means no insult. It just means that what's amazing about SC has been achieved largely by custom maps trying to do what Blizzard hasn't been able to do--make good balance changes.
This is why SC2 is either going to be a failure like War3 in our community's eyes, or be something truly unprecedented. For Blizzard to raise SC2 to an SC-like level they are going to have to do something better than they have ever done before. I'm looking for signs that they recognize this and are acting accordingly. That's why I asked whether there are signs that the beta is going to not close with an inferior (to SC) product like War3's did. Furthermore, I'd say that unless the beta fosters high-level, game-breaking competition which is both understood by Blizzard and reacted to it on a level similar to what map makers in SC have done, I think SC2 multiplayer is going to be quite a letdown for our small community. So again, I'm looking for signals from Blizzard that they understand this and are acting accordingly, as opposed to them just working on a hot single player and pretty graphics and looking for hardware bugs.
On January 14 2010 15:41 mishimaBeef wrote: I think Blizzard will definately do whatever they can reasonably do to make this game the best game ever (better than SC). I believe them when they say that. Though, this game has such high expectations, it would not be a total shocker if even with all the hard work they are pouring in, it fall short of our expectations. All in all I've heard good things about the korean trials such as "good game speed", "feels like starcraft and not warcraft 3". My slight beef with the game (similar beef with warcraft 3) is that the 3d engine with all the flashy images of movement and attack makes it sometimes hard to distinguis what the heck's actually going on. Like some of the lasers cover up the screen and I can't tell whats behind. Hopefully this is not a major issue. Can't wait for the game to come out. It will be quite an adventure as starcraft was.
SC2 definitely seems to have War3's disco-lights spam right now, which is not a good sign IMO.
On January 14 2010 15:54 IskatuMesk wrote: You know what I hope SC2 doesn't have?
Animating menus that slide all over the place like warcraft 3.
God, that's annoying as hell. Especially as a modder who has to jump in and out of the game over and over and over to test things or run replays with AI in vanilla starcraft... those sliding menus just drive me nuts.
I agree, this is something that was brought to their attention several times just after they announced the game so I am hopeful that they saw this.
This is why SC2 is either going to be a failure like War3 in our community's eyes, or be something truly unprecedented. For Blizzard to raise SC2 to an SC-like level they are going to have to do something better than they have ever done before. I'm looking for signs that they recognize this and are acting accordingly. That's why I asked whether there are signs that the beta is going to not close with an inferior (to SC) product like War3's did. Furthermore, I'd say that unless the beta fosters high-level, game-breaking competition which is both understood by Blizzard and reacted to it on a level similar to what map makers in SC have done, I think SC2 multiplayer is going to be quite a letdown for our small community. So again, I'm looking for signals from Blizzard that they understand this and are acting accordingly, as opposed to them just working on a hot single player and pretty graphics and looking for hardware bugs.
Let's be honest, there is not a snowballs chance in hell of SC2 being balanced on release. This isn't because they won't try, or because they won't take feedback into account... it's simply because the game will not be able to evolve quickly enough in such a short time to tell whether we've really, truly, reached "balance".
Something thought to be imbalanced, might have been solved if you just let the game play for 2 years. Something thought to not be imbalanced might turn out to be imbalanced 2 years later when people get good enough to exploit it.
In addition, there are 2 more expansions in the pipeline, meaning that whatever balance is reached, will then be partially lost and the process starts over again. We can probably look forward to at least a few years worth of patches, but that's actually fine - adapting to periodic changes isn't all bad - it keeps things fresh.
On January 14 2010 15:54 IskatuMesk wrote: You know what I hope SC2 doesn't have?
Animating menus that slide all over the place like warcraft 3.
God, that's annoying as hell. Especially as a modder who has to jump in and out of the game over and over and over to test things or run replays with AI in vanilla starcraft... those sliding menus just drive me nuts.
I agree, this is something that was brought to their attention several times just after they announced the game so I am hopeful that they saw this.
This is why SC2 is either going to be a failure like War3 in our community's eyes, or be something truly unprecedented. For Blizzard to raise SC2 to an SC-like level they are going to have to do something better than they have ever done before. I'm looking for signs that they recognize this and are acting accordingly. That's why I asked whether there are signs that the beta is going to not close with an inferior (to SC) product like War3's did. Furthermore, I'd say that unless the beta fosters high-level, game-breaking competition which is both understood by Blizzard and reacted to it on a level similar to what map makers in SC have done, I think SC2 multiplayer is going to be quite a letdown for our small community. So again, I'm looking for signals from Blizzard that they understand this and are acting accordingly, as opposed to them just working on a hot single player and pretty graphics and looking for hardware bugs.
Let's be honest, there is not a snowballs chance in hell of SC2 being balanced on release. This isn't because they won't try, or because they won't take feedback into account... it's simply because the game will not be able to evolve quickly enough in such a short time to tell whether we've really, truly, reached "balance".
Something thought to be imbalanced, might have been solved if you just let the game play for 2 years. Something thought to not be imbalanced might turn out to be imbalanced 2 years later when people get good enough to exploit it.
In addition, there are 2 more expansions in the pipeline, meaning that whatever balance is reached, will then be partially lost and the process starts over again. We can probably look forward to at least a few years worth of patches, but that's actually fine - adapting to periodic changes isn't all bad - it keeps things fresh.
I think the problem here is that we are all putting our optimism in the wrong place. We should not hope that the game will be better than a creepless upkeepless heroless War3 with more responsive units and a space theme.
We should instead hope that Blizzard can effectively let SC2 be learned quickly in the beta and have mature strategies come about right now, thanks to the already high skill level in SC. SC skill level should transfer to SC2. SC got a huge headstart as advanced War2 players quickly figured the game out (relatively). What changed since them were patches, new units, maps, and execution. Well guess what? That advanced execution can start in SC2 beta right now. If they put the incentive in place, the beta can be played to a very advanced level in a matter of a month or two. Put up cash that pro teams will care about (not really much from a sponsor's perspective), and you will see games that matter right away. Modify the game according to that, play another high-stakes series that goes on long enough for a little adaptation (we should be able to judge how long this typically takes for games using the history of SC's leagues), and it can happen. They could run 3-4 cycles of this before releasing the game.
It won't be SC in its present state, but it will be perhaps something more sophisticated than where SC was when BW came out. Let's face it, we don't want to wait 10 years for SC2 to matter. It won't survive that long. Look at War3. When it's 10 years old it won't be anything but the same game it is today. Something different must be done to give SC2 a boost so that it can avoid the same fate--I want to see some signs that Blizzard is treating SC2 differently enough that we can expect it to have a light years headstart over the way War3 started.
Basically, there's all this talent and skill and motivation tied up in SC. If they aren't careful, it will decide to stay in SC pretty early on. They need it to transfer to SC2 more successfully this time around. They need to ensure it will work on Korean TV--unlike War3. That is, if they are going to satisfy us. I fear they will be happy just releasing something just a little better than War3, and not really trying to have the momentum of SC truly transfer to it.
On January 14 2010 15:54 IskatuMesk wrote: You know what I hope SC2 doesn't have?
Animating menus that slide all over the place like warcraft 3.
God, that's annoying as hell. Especially as a modder who has to jump in and out of the game over and over and over to test things or run replays with AI in vanilla starcraft... those sliding menus just drive me nuts.
I agree, this is something that was brought to their attention several times just after they announced the game so I am hopeful that they saw this.
This is why SC2 is either going to be a failure like War3 in our community's eyes, or be something truly unprecedented. For Blizzard to raise SC2 to an SC-like level they are going to have to do something better than they have ever done before. I'm looking for signs that they recognize this and are acting accordingly. That's why I asked whether there are signs that the beta is going to not close with an inferior (to SC) product like War3's did. Furthermore, I'd say that unless the beta fosters high-level, game-breaking competition which is both understood by Blizzard and reacted to it on a level similar to what map makers in SC have done, I think SC2 multiplayer is going to be quite a letdown for our small community. So again, I'm looking for signals from Blizzard that they understand this and are acting accordingly, as opposed to them just working on a hot single player and pretty graphics and looking for hardware bugs.
Let's be honest, there is not a snowballs chance in hell of SC2 being balanced on release. This isn't because they won't try, or because they won't take feedback into account... it's simply because the game will not be able to evolve quickly enough in such a short time to tell whether we've really, truly, reached "balance".
Something thought to be imbalanced, might have been solved if you just let the game play for 2 years. Something thought to not be imbalanced might turn out to be imbalanced 2 years later when people get good enough to exploit it.
In addition, there are 2 more expansions in the pipeline, meaning that whatever balance is reached, will then be partially lost and the process starts over again. We can probably look forward to at least a few years worth of patches, but that's actually fine - adapting to periodic changes isn't all bad - it keeps things fresh.
FA makes a good point here and I would like to add that altho I don't know what was the player pool back then when sc:bw was released but I belive it will be much much larger with SCII release becouse simply not so many ppl were into games back in 98 and even if there is a same amount of players playing the games thru 1st year or so the game will gain quicker balancing pace than bw becouse ppl now have much deeper understanding of game and much larger pool of players that understand the game and it's flow. And we got sc:bw web sites alrdy (even without beta out goddamn it!) slowly switching to SCII where ppl will discuss and alrdy are discussing ( ) the game so again this will make game balanced more quickly than bw.
I have a question that im sure has bee answered some where on the site but for the sake of not hunting all over for it... Once the beta is released what are the chances of obtaining it and how would you go about getting it?
On January 15 2010 10:22 Polygamy wrote: I have a question that im sure has bee answered some where on the site but for the sake of not hunting all over for it... Once the beta is released what are the chances of obtaining it and how would you go about getting it?
After that go into Account Management, and click on Beta Profile Settings. Submit your system settings and click the box that says you are interested in Starcraft universe betas. Once you're done with all that, all you can do is hope you're invited in.
I can confirm you that exploding Banelings do not damage allied units: both your units and those of your allies are not affected at all by the acid explosion.
On January 04 2010 09:44 darksilver wrote: OK I have this idea, although it might not be as great from another perspective. It is about commanding unit formations. For example, if you want to arrange Marines on a vertical line you would select the group and drag a line vertically using both mouse buttons and the Marines would do as instructed. One could also use a U-shaped gesture and the units would form along the lines. What do you people think?
Commanding unit formations would just take away from the skill involved in microing units during battles. For example: In a PvP, both players could easily create perfect arcs of dragoons (or stalkers or w/e) and there would be no micro necessary. It just makes it too easy.
I understand most SC players' desire for everything to be 100% manual, but I see nothing wrong with being able to click both mouse buttons and drag to create formations. I'm not saying choose any formating like an arc or whatever, but being able to put your units into a line would be nice.
On January 14 2010 15:54 IskatuMesk wrote: You know what I hope SC2 doesn't have?
Animating menus that slide all over the place like warcraft 3.
God, that's annoying as hell. Especially as a modder who has to jump in and out of the game over and over and over to test things or run replays with AI in vanilla starcraft... those sliding menus just drive me nuts.
On January 15 2010 04:21 Polygamy wrote: Blizzard can not be ignorant to the fact that there is a pro circuit with a rather large following for how prehistoric of a game SC is.
sry for double post, but i couldn't let this one get away, rofl
Can zealots with charge upgraded be abused (in a good way)? If your zealot is surrounded by lings, and you force your zealot to attack one of your own units a little ways away to get a speed boost and get out of the ling surround? It seems there may be many possibilities for micro with "charge" zealots.
Also, does anyone know why zealot's charge animation changed from the original announcement video? Back then they had this awesome motion-blurring effect--now they have a small "tail" that signifies motion, but looks half as cool. Just curious.
I don't think this merits a thread, but I'd like to thank the SC2 team for trying their best to strike a balance between satisfying the needs of the older fans and appealing to the wants of the newer ones. I'm sure they hear this all the time, but I'd like to restate that I'm glad they're spending as much time working on the game as they have so far and being so open to input from the competitive community, and so if it takes longer to release then I'd be happy to wait. + Show Spoiler +
I just saw the trailer for C&C4 and thought of inducing vomiting and mailing the bucket to EA.
After browsing through some of the posts in the thread, I do have to say that I concur with quite a few of old times sake's points, especially that there should be some sort of incentive so that SC2 will get the high-level beta testing that it deserves; enough so that it has a head-start towards decent balance. The community will be a pretty big help on that, especially if high-level players and mapmakers collaborate with each other and the design team.
Airforce ACE should be recruited to be part of their progamer balance team. IIRC practice time is rather different for them and a lot of them were around for the early days of SC, so trying to break the game should be rather familiar to them. (Of course, there's always Boxer...)
StarCraft The final qualifying round for TeamLiquid’s StarLeague 2 concluded on Monday, with 16 players progressing to the last stage of the tournament. Check out the latest results and read the player interviews right here (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=110217). Also, GosuGamers sat down with Swedish Terran player Stefan “MorroW” Andersson to talk about his performance during this tournament (http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/news/11195-interview-with-morrow-talking-tsl-kolll-beyond); be sure to have a look. In addition, the winners of the ZOTAC-Cup edition #36 and #37 have now been named (http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/news/11193-who-did-get-a-grip-of-latest-zotac-cups): Protoss player Oleksii “mouz.White-Ra” Krupnyk from Ukraine and Zerg player Olf “mTW.Closer” Schmidt from Germany.
What stage of development is SC2 currently at? I know Blizzard's site says that it'll be done when it's done, but I'd like an estimated release date so that I can set a target date for when to buy a new computer (which I need to save money for). So, yeah. Thanks.
The programming team has added some impressive new unit movement animations to the game. Air units like the phoenix and banshee bank on turns, roaches and hellions both rise when they start moving, and tanks slightly bob when stopping.
TBH I'm not too excited about this. Mostly only if it takes away from micro. I HATE 'banking' in rts. It makes your units go all over the place where you dont want them. Hopefully they address this.
I don't think they meant changes in movement, just animations when units start/stop moving or turn.
Kapeselus wrote on Polish SC2 forums that Reapers can jump on a cliff even if there are buildings there because pasuses between buildings and cliffs are usually 1 sector (square that is approximately 1/4 of a pylon) big. They won't be able to maneuver at all though.
On February 03 2010 04:14 beetlelisk wrote: I don't think they meant changes in movement, just animations when units start/stop moving or turn.
I think this is right. IIRC there was some Blizzcon '07 feedback about some movement/micro not being fast enough, and Blizzard supposedly corrected that. They know how important smooth and fast responses and aren't going to ruin it with animations.
It's probably just stuff like the little roll the phoenix does at the start of that video.
EPT
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