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On December 30 2009 15:47 heroyi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2009 13:27 Spawkuring wrote:On December 30 2009 13:20 Ryoo wrote:
My Guess:
Starcraft 2 will have a progaming scene for a short period of time but then fail.
It might be fun playing it but as a spectator sport... I can't imagine that happening. I'm quite sure that SC2 will be clearer to watch and more entertaining than WC3 at least. WC3 has a common complaint when it comes to visual clarity, yet it still has a massive pro-gaming scene. Starcraft 2 is 100% guaranteed to have a healthy pro-gaming scene. The bigger question is mainly if it will be good enough to surpass SC1. i personally dont think that will happen (sc2 surpassing sc1) because although sc2 has different stuff (graphics, mechanics, units etc...) sc1 was a beautiful game and will also hold that originality. and sometimes no amount of fixing can overcome that nostalgia. for example zelda ocarina of time...best fucking zelda series despite other later series with better graphics or stuff, ocarina of times kicks major major ass. to the thread debate: when new games come out two things usually happens either a) it is perfect or barely flawed (very rare) or b) ppl are going to spam playing this game and find holes that need to be patched up with flamings and arguements and abusing. however looking at blizzards rep. ...i think the pro scene will be fine and everyone will enjoy it despite some future inevitable flaws. btw does anyone know if we HAVE to buy the other expansion sets to be able to play online to stay updated or can we just download series of patches i would hate to think i would be left in the shadow when i have the wings of liberty play it and when zerg expansion comes out i cant play online anymore  .
Well people HAD to buy Brood War, right?
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On December 30 2009 16:08 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2009 15:47 heroyi wrote:On December 30 2009 13:27 Spawkuring wrote:On December 30 2009 13:20 Ryoo wrote:
My Guess:
Starcraft 2 will have a progaming scene for a short period of time but then fail.
It might be fun playing it but as a spectator sport... I can't imagine that happening. I'm quite sure that SC2 will be clearer to watch and more entertaining than WC3 at least. WC3 has a common complaint when it comes to visual clarity, yet it still has a massive pro-gaming scene. Starcraft 2 is 100% guaranteed to have a healthy pro-gaming scene. The bigger question is mainly if it will be good enough to surpass SC1. i personally dont think that will happen (sc2 surpassing sc1) because although sc2 has different stuff (graphics, mechanics, units etc...) sc1 was a beautiful game and will also hold that originality. and sometimes no amount of fixing can overcome that nostalgia. for example zelda ocarina of time...best fucking zelda series despite other later series with better graphics or stuff, ocarina of times kicks major major ass. to the thread debate: when new games come out two things usually happens either a) it is perfect or barely flawed (very rare) or b) ppl are going to spam playing this game and find holes that need to be patched up with flamings and arguements and abusing. however looking at blizzards rep. ...i think the pro scene will be fine and everyone will enjoy it despite some future inevitable flaws. btw does anyone know if we HAVE to buy the other expansion sets to be able to play online to stay updated or can we just download series of patches i would hate to think i would be left in the shadow when i have the wings of liberty play it and when zerg expansion comes out i cant play online anymore . Well people HAD to buy Brood War, right?
The SC2 expansion sets are just for the singleplayer campaign...
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On December 30 2009 08:41 Captain Peabody wrote:
All of this will depend upon the extent to which SC2 catches on as an e-sport among the foreigners. A big reason why Korean Starcraft is so insular is because the foreign SC scene has been so incredibly sparse, for so long; and this sparseness has led, over time, to an ever-widening skill gap between foreigners and Koreans (though this may be lessening as of late), which has in turn led the foreign scene to build itself up in imitation of the Korean one, seeking to emulate it in every way possible.
If Starcraft 2 really does catch on in a big way overseas, though, then we're going to almost definitely start seeing foreigners constructing teams and methodologies of training from the ground up, in very non-Korean ways. This will mean that when the two scenes do inevitably come into contact, then the foreign scene will be able to show a legitimate contrast to the Korean scene, a contrast that will inevitably reveal all of the the weakness and deficiencies of Korean SC training methods and play-styles. To what extent the Korean scene can or will adapt to this, I don't know; but though I still expect Korea to dominate SC2 at least in a cultural sense (i.e. no where else will e-sports be so widely accepted), I expect the actual competitive playing field to be much, much more open than it has been.
Um strict training regimes are apparent in every sport. If you are going to play professional you have to be prepared to spend long intensive hours training. Nearly every sportsman gets the life sucked out of them, but they don't care because they are getting paid so they can do more of what they love doing.
If you don't think you need strict disciplined training schedules to become the best, and then you think you can play 100% by eating pizza and going out whenever you feel like, then you are a retard. If you can't accept that fact, then you don't have what it takes to become the best.
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the west is always better at the begining of a game. at the WC3 RoC days every single gosu was "foreigner" western people are better at figuring out things while asian people are better at mastering what was figuring out.
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On December 30 2009 18:34 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2009 08:41 Captain Peabody wrote:
All of this will depend upon the extent to which SC2 catches on as an e-sport among the foreigners. A big reason why Korean Starcraft is so insular is because the foreign SC scene has been so incredibly sparse, for so long; and this sparseness has led, over time, to an ever-widening skill gap between foreigners and Koreans (though this may be lessening as of late), which has in turn led the foreign scene to build itself up in imitation of the Korean one, seeking to emulate it in every way possible.
If Starcraft 2 really does catch on in a big way overseas, though, then we're going to almost definitely start seeing foreigners constructing teams and methodologies of training from the ground up, in very non-Korean ways. This will mean that when the two scenes do inevitably come into contact, then the foreign scene will be able to show a legitimate contrast to the Korean scene, a contrast that will inevitably reveal all of the the weakness and deficiencies of Korean SC training methods and play-styles. To what extent the Korean scene can or will adapt to this, I don't know; but though I still expect Korea to dominate SC2 at least in a cultural sense (i.e. no where else will e-sports be so widely accepted), I expect the actual competitive playing field to be much, much more open than it has been. Um strict training regimes are apparent in every sport. If you are going to play professional you have to be prepared to spend long intensive hours training. Nearly every sportsman gets the life sucked out of them, but they don't care because they are getting paid so they can do more of what they love doing. If you don't think you need strict disciplined training schedules to become the best, and then you think you can play 100% by eating pizza and going out whenever you feel like, then you are a retard. If you can't accept that fact, then you don't have what it takes to become the best.
Well, I've put a lot of thoughts into it, and I've come to the conclusion that maybe, I say maybe is there a training regime between having absolutely no life besides gaming and watching TV/eating pizzas all day.
But ye, as you suggested it, I might just be a retard.
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On December 30 2009 16:45 lolaloc wrote:
The SC2 expansion sets are just for the singleplayer campaign...
Um... No?
How will the expansion sets impact multiplayer gameplay?
The expansion sets will add new content to each race for use in multiplayer matches. This could include additions such as new units, abilities, and structures, along with new maps and Battle.net updates.
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On December 30 2009 18:59 Dav_ wrote:
the west is always better at the begining of a game. at the WC3 RoC days every single gosu was "foreigner" western people are better at figuring out things while asian people are better at mastering what was figuring out.
I know what you are trying to say but that is a massive sweeping generalisation. For one, asians live in foreign countries, i think your opinion would make sense if you think about japan and korea's discipline and pressure to conform to society, but really i just think what you said is untrue. Th efact of the matter is a lot more foreigners played War3 back in the day.
On December 30 2009 19:02 TeWy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2009 18:34 sluggaslamoo wrote:On December 30 2009 08:41 Captain Peabody wrote:
All of this will depend upon the extent to which SC2 catches on as an e-sport among the foreigners. A big reason why Korean Starcraft is so insular is because the foreign SC scene has been so incredibly sparse, for so long; and this sparseness has led, over time, to an ever-widening skill gap between foreigners and Koreans (though this may be lessening as of late), which has in turn led the foreign scene to build itself up in imitation of the Korean one, seeking to emulate it in every way possible.
If Starcraft 2 really does catch on in a big way overseas, though, then we're going to almost definitely start seeing foreigners constructing teams and methodologies of training from the ground up, in very non-Korean ways. This will mean that when the two scenes do inevitably come into contact, then the foreign scene will be able to show a legitimate contrast to the Korean scene, a contrast that will inevitably reveal all of the the weakness and deficiencies of Korean SC training methods and play-styles. To what extent the Korean scene can or will adapt to this, I don't know; but though I still expect Korea to dominate SC2 at least in a cultural sense (i.e. no where else will e-sports be so widely accepted), I expect the actual competitive playing field to be much, much more open than it has been. Um strict training regimes are apparent in every sport. If you are going to play professional you have to be prepared to spend long intensive hours training. Nearly every sportsman gets the life sucked out of them, but they don't care because they are getting paid so they can do more of what they love doing. If you don't think you need strict disciplined training schedules to become the best, and then you think you can play 100% by eating pizza and going out whenever you feel like, then you are a retard. If you can't accept that fact, then you don't have what it takes to become the best. Well, I've put a lot of thoughts into it, and I've come to the conclusion that maybe, I say maybe is there a training regime between having absolutely no life besides gaming and watching TV/eating pizzas all day. But ye, as you suggested it, I might just be a retard.
Haha there's a massive difference between a pro and a really good amateur. If you know anyone who has become a pro athlete (and not even in the A team) you would not want to live their life, trust me.
For example my cousin became a footballer (joined a national team), his training is crazy intense, he has to have ice-baths in order to shorten the amount of time he gets a break. The diets, sports medicine, intense training schedule, not to mention the fact that of these most players game time is 0. I would say the first 6 months you would pretty much feel like dying every night, and that's if you enjoy it.
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On December 30 2009 16:45 lolaloc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2009 16:08 jalstar wrote:On December 30 2009 15:47 heroyi wrote:On December 30 2009 13:27 Spawkuring wrote:On December 30 2009 13:20 Ryoo wrote:
My Guess:
Starcraft 2 will have a progaming scene for a short period of time but then fail.
It might be fun playing it but as a spectator sport... I can't imagine that happening. I'm quite sure that SC2 will be clearer to watch and more entertaining than WC3 at least. WC3 has a common complaint when it comes to visual clarity, yet it still has a massive pro-gaming scene. Starcraft 2 is 100% guaranteed to have a healthy pro-gaming scene. The bigger question is mainly if it will be good enough to surpass SC1. i personally dont think that will happen (sc2 surpassing sc1) because although sc2 has different stuff (graphics, mechanics, units etc...) sc1 was a beautiful game and will also hold that originality. and sometimes no amount of fixing can overcome that nostalgia. for example zelda ocarina of time...best fucking zelda series despite other later series with better graphics or stuff, ocarina of times kicks major major ass. to the thread debate: when new games come out two things usually happens either a) it is perfect or barely flawed (very rare) or b) ppl are going to spam playing this game and find holes that need to be patched up with flamings and arguements and abusing. however looking at blizzards rep. ...i think the pro scene will be fine and everyone will enjoy it despite some future inevitable flaws. btw does anyone know if we HAVE to buy the other expansion sets to be able to play online to stay updated or can we just download series of patches i would hate to think i would be left in the shadow when i have the wings of liberty play it and when zerg expansion comes out i cant play online anymore . Well people HAD to buy Brood War, right? The SC2 expansion sets are just for the singleplayer campaign...
Ugh, where did you get that from? T___T
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It's strange that each time non korean pro teams have been able to challenge Korean pro teams, they've never been dominated by them (despite practicing far less).
Practicing over 10hours/day with no day off is not based on any medical/psychological recommendation, and I'm pretty sure that if a group of experts was created, they wouldn't come to the conclusion that this training schedule is the best for the vast majority of gamers.
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Steve Vai practises 7 hours a day on just speed, but other guitarists are only a little bit slower. The fact of the matter is, the higher the standard the smaller the gap. You need to practise 6 hours more to be only 5% better, however you only need to be 5% better to win, however to other spectators this seems like a close match, however in the end winning is winning. There is only a tiny difference between all of the top players, you see that everywhere.
But you are right in some respects, most experts/coaches now choose shorter and more intensive hours. However this doesn't really work with respect to SC, you are already concentrating like mad every game and you don't get physical tiredness like normal sports, hence the long hours. Perhaps they could focus on this aspect a little more, however korea is dominating, there is no evidence to show that players can win with less hours as of now.
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btw does anyone know if we HAVE to buy the other expansion sets to be able to play online to stay updated or can we just download series of patches i would hate to think i would be left in the shadow when i have the wings of liberty play it and when zerg expansion comes out i cant play online anymore .
I never get why people don't understand the trilogy. It's really, really simple.
If you own StarCraft I and not Brood War, you can still get patched. You won't, however, get the new multiplayer stuff (eg new units).
Now apply the exact same rule to StarCraft II.
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btw does anyone know if we HAVE to buy the other expansion sets to be able to play online to stay updated or can we just download series of patches i would hate to think i would be left in the shadow when i have the wings of liberty play it and when zerg expansion comes out i cant play online anymore .
We had to buy BW so i'd imagine it's the same.
[edit for clarity] ...to play BW.
It's like you can still just buy original WoW even 5 years later.
anyway, this getting a bit off-topic.... I really really hope e-sports takes off more in the west, got a feeling most people are too stupid to get it though.
Well stupid is a strong word...it's definitely not as easy to understand as most traditional sports, it's a shame everyone has been dumbed down by simple sports.
Was interesting in another thread, you notice that there are very few sports (if any, I can't think of one right now) that have "fog of war", the opposition out of sight. Football would be interesting with scouting =p (and spidermines...*cough*). I think it can lead to confusion. Though I love watching it switch to FP as you see a dropship full of tanks slip past an army undetected :D
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On December 30 2009 09:44 Emon_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2009 09:15 Piy wrote:
If SC2 doesn't have the mechanical demands necessary for the competetive esport (SC, Quake III, SF4,SSBM) it dies here and becomes another War3
Sure hope SC2 doesnt end up being another Warcraft 3. Another game with ~96 heros to keep track of *shudders*
96 heroes? How exactly did you come up with this number? There are 24 heroes in WC3 and I'm pretty sure WC3 is not DotA.
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Omfg, the expansions better not be $49.99 each.
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On December 31 2009 00:49 Ryoo wrote:
Omfg, the expansions better not be $49.99 each.
That's like less than a day's amount of work.....
If you can't work ONE day in a year (or however long between releases), then you might need to reprioritize your life. Some of you guys are acting like the expansions are going to be coming out back to back weeks or something when in reality it's probably more like a few years between.
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On December 31 2009 03:41 beefhamburger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2009 00:49 Ryoo wrote:
Omfg, the expansions better not be $49.99 each. That's like less than a day's amount of work..... If you can't work ONE day in a year (or however long between releases), then you might need to reprioritize your life. Some of you guys are acting like the expansions are going to be coming out back to back weeks or something when in reality it's probably more like a few years between.
Someone has had a far too easy life if you don't understand why dishing out $50 for a game might be a bit "challenging" for some people, even if its as rarely as once a year.
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On December 31 2009 03:50 Puosu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2009 03:41 beefhamburger wrote:On December 31 2009 00:49 Ryoo wrote:
Omfg, the expansions better not be $49.99 each. That's like less than a day's amount of work..... If you can't work ONE day in a year (or however long between releases), then you might need to reprioritize your life. Some of you guys are acting like the expansions are going to be coming out back to back weeks or something when in reality it's probably more like a few years between. Someone has had a far too easy life if you don't understand why dishing out $50 for a game might be a bit "challenging" for some people, even if its as rarely as once a year.
If you're in the position where even buying one game a year is challenging, then you shouldn't be buying games period.
That being said, I strongly doubt that the expansions will cost $50 each. Expansions always cost less than the original product. The only exceptions I can think of are standalone expansions, but even then it's not unusual for them to cost less. SC2 is just one game and two expansions, and I can't imagine them having any reason to change the pricing rule that has worked so well before.
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EPT
